Weird steering issue?

[dstewart3ss]

2010 LX
At lower speeds (typically when slowing to a stop and less than 30 mph) my steering wheel almost starts turning itself sometimes. I’ve noticed it most often when slowing, hands not firm on wheel, hit a bump which naturally wants to turn the wheel some and then it’s literally like someone is turning the wheel 90+ degrees. If I don’t grab the wheel and turn it back I’ll veer off the road or into another lane almost immediately. Does it in both directions. Truck is aligned and runs straight otherwise. I’m befuddled and worried about safety.

Anyone ever experienced this?

 

[Sandroad]

Any suspension mods and/or possible damage to components? Did the issue start suddenly or develop over time?

Others with suspension/steering experience will weigh in, but in the meantime, run a search on Mud for bump steer.

Also, does the swerving while slowing happen when you are on the brakes? That might indicate a frozen caliper piston or other brake problem.

 

[dstewart3ss]

Any suspension mods and/or possible damage to components? Did the issue start suddenly or develop over time?

Others with suspension/steering experience will weigh in, but in the meantime, run a search on Mud for bump steer.

Also, does the swerving while slowing happen when you are on the brakes? That might indicate a frozen caliper piston or other brake problem.

No suspension mods or known damage to components. I’ve only owned it for about a month. It was out of alignment when I got it so I had it aligned a week or so ago hoping it might fix it. Same thing after alignment. Again, it’s intermittent. I’ll have to ask the PO if he ever noticed it.

Thanks for the guidance, I’ll search bump steer. I tried a few searches and came up empty hence this new thread.

And no the “swerving” is not while braking.

 

[vipergrhd]

Rotate the tires and see if it changes.

 

[dstewart3ss]

Rotate the tires and see if it changes.

Forgot to mention they were rotated when I had it aligned :/

 

[rscoleman]

Swap front left to front right and front right to left. This fixed a pull to right issue for me on a new set of tires that were in spec for alignment. Do you feel any shudder in wheel when braking if so this could mean front brakes are going bad and need replaced along with rotor turn or replace. Noting it is 2010 you could have some play in steering bushing or tie rod ends that could account for what is happing however if you had alignment done they should have checked that and confirm no issues however another thing to look at. Good luck

 

[lx200inAR]

Swap front left to front right and front right to left. This fixed a pull to right issue for me on a new set of tires that were in spec for alignment. Do you feel any shudder in wheel when braking if so this could mean front brakes are going bad and need replaced along with rotor turn or replace. Noting it is 2010 you could have some play in steering bushing or tie rod ends that could account for what is happing however if you had alignment done they should have checked that and confirm no issues however another thing to look at. Good luck

Sounds more like a VGRS issue. When I mess with the height sensors on my LX and don’t do the recalibration, I can get these symptoms for a little while. On mine it usually goes away after a mile or 2 and doesn’t come back as long as I don’t do anything else.

I would look at doing a “zero point calibration” and if that doesn’t resolve, then probably need to find someone who can t-shoot from Techstream (whether that’s you or someone else). You will need Techstream to do the Zero Point Cal as well, unless there is a way to trigger it from jumping OBD pins.

 

[dstewart3ss]

Swap front left to front right and front right to left. This fixed a pull to right issue for me on a new set of tires that were in spec for alignment. Do you feel any shudder in wheel when braking if so this could mean front brakes are going bad and need replaced along with rotor turn or replace. Noting it is 2010 you could have some play in steering bushing or tie rod ends that could account for what is happing however if you had alignment done they should have checked that and confirm no issues however another thing to look at. Good luck

No shudder when braking. Seems to be most prevalent when coasting to a stop on local roads, no braking. Hit a little bump and it’s like a ghost yanks the steering wheel one way or the other. I need to get some of the physical components you mentioned checked out.

Sounds more like a VGRS issue. When I mess with the height sensors on my LX and don’t do the recalibration, I can get these symptoms for a little while. On mine it usually goes away after a mile or 2 and doesn’t come back as long as I don’t do anything else.

I would look at doing a “zero point calibration” and if that doesn’t resolve, then probably need to find someone who can t-shoot from Techstream (whether that’s you or someone else). You will need Techstream to do the Zero Point Cal as well, unless there is a way to trigger it from jumping OBD pins.

Oh man I don’t like hearing VGRS. I had an issue with this on my LX 470 that I tracked down for weeks. The zero point calibration is tied to the VGRS, right? I remember that being something one mechanic recommended - turns out it wasn’t what I needed. I know the guy who did my recent alignment did nothing with the VGRS. And FWIW my symptoms don’t seem to go away later in a drive.

Maybe I should clarify one thing. Not only does the steering wheel turn sharply when hitting a bump, but the wheels turn and the truck goes that direction. When I had VGRS issues with my LX 470 the steering wheel itself was off center but had no effect on wheel position.

 

[lx200inAR]

No shudder when braking. Seems to be most prevalent when coasting to a stop on local roads, no braking. Hit a little bump and it’s like a ghost yanks the steering wheel one way or the other. I need to get some of the physical components you mentioned checked out.



Oh man I don’t like hearing VGRS. I had an issue with this on my LX 470 that I tracked down for weeks. The zero point calibration is tied to the VGRS, right? I remember that being something one mechanic recommended - turns out it wasn’t what I needed. I know the guy who did my recent alignment did nothing with the VGRS. And FWIW my symptoms don’t seem to go away later in a drive.

Maybe I should clarify one thing. Not only does the steering wheel turn sharply when hitting a bump, but the wheels turn and the truck goes that direction. When I had VGRS issues with my LX 470 the steering wheel itself was off center but had no effect on wheel position.

Well, sounds like a mechanical issue. On my LX, when it gets in that state I have to turn the wheel 90 degrees to get the truck to drive strait At low speeds.

certainly can’t hurt to do A ZPC, but maybe not necessary. Pretty sure its supposed to be done any time you mess with alignment.

 

[bloc]

Did you get an alignment printout after the work was done? Some machines have an incorrect spec for front caster on our trucks. Too little can make the vehicle darty and hard to keep in a straight line..

 

[dstewart3ss]

Did you get an alignment printout after the work was done? Some machines have an incorrect spec for front caster on our trucks. Too little can make the vehicle darty and hard to keep in a straight line..

No I don’t think I did which is odd. I’ll give my guy a call today.

 

[bloc]

No I don’t think I did which is odd. I’ll give my guy a call today.

Ask him what the machine says is correct. From memory some
Machines look for about 1.7 degree of caster but toyota specifies 3.1.
I’m not sure this is your issue but it is pretty common to be wrong.

 

[linuxgod]

You might try to reset the VGRS system or run the diagnostics that I believe are in Techstream. If you don't have a copy, most of the $50 miniVCI-to-OBD2 dongles on ebay come with a copy

My first thought is a problem with the power steering, actually. It's sort of apples to oranges but I had a power steering failure in my '66 Mustang where some valve or something went bad while I was driving through my neighborhood at maybe 15-20 mph and the steering wheel immediately went full lock to the right. Thankfully I was holding the wheel but it took all the muscle I had to keep it semi-straight. Sadly this was back in high school when I was po' so I just ripped out the power steering pump and hoses and drove for the next few years with manual steering so I can't say precisely what the issue was, but the pulling to one side feels potentially similar

 

[dstewart3ss]

You might try to reset the VGRS system or run the diagnostics that I believe are in Techstream. If you don't have a copy, most of the $50 miniVCI-to-OBD2 dongles on ebay come with a copy

My first thought is a problem with the power steering, actually. It's sort of apples to oranges but I had a power steering failure in my '66 Mustang where some valve or something went bad while I was driving through my neighborhood at maybe 15-20 mph and the steering wheel immediately went full lock to the right. Thankfully I was holding the wheel but it took all the muscle I had to keep it semi-straight. Sadly this was back in high school when I was po' so I just ripped out the power steering pump and hoses and drove for the next few years with manual steering so I can't say precisely what the issue was, but the pulling to one side feels potentially similar

Is it possible to reset the VGRS system without Techstream? Wondering if this is something I can do or see if my alignment guy can do….if not, I’ll probably look into getting Techstream myself.

 

[dstewart3ss]

Ask him what the machine says is correct. From memory some
Machines look for about 1.7 degree of caster but toyota specifies 3.1.
I’m not sure this is your issue but it is pretty common to be wrong.

Where can I get a copy of what Toyota/Lexus specifies for these trucks so I can just give it to him and say ”align it to this”. I should hear back from him later today on the specs he aligned it to a few weeks ago. Will definitely share those here once received.

 

[lx200inAR]

Here's a good thread on Zero Point Calibration. Looks like it's posible to do without Techstream. Not that i'm not advocating getting Techstream. I think every 200 ownder should have it.

Zero Point Calibration

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[bloc]

Where can I get a copy of what Toyota/Lexus specifies for these trucks so I can just give it to him and say ”align it to this”. I should hear back from him later today on the specs he aligned it to a few weeks ago. Will definitely share those here once received.

So it's just occurring to me that I only have specs for a landcruiser, not a LX.. though I'd expect the numbers to be very similar if not identical.

This is from the 2013 LC factory service manual, other years would be the same.

Turns out I was a little off on my memory.. @linuxgod has written extensively about alignment specs if you want to do some digging.

Note that "option less" and "full option" refer to the option package of the vehicle. It says earlier in the article that that can change ride height by a couple millimeters. I'm not entirely sure what I'd do on a LX that can correct ride height.. maybe @TeCKis300 has some info.

 

[linuxgod]

VGRS calibration procedure attached. I'm not convinced this will solve the issue but it's a solid first step as it's pretty easy to do and free

 

[TeCKis300]

I know this was asked early, but are you fully stock, not just in suspension? Stock wheels? No wheel spacers? Could be a symptom of scrub radius due to offsets.

The symptoms also read a bit like insufficient caster as @bloc mentioned. How's the high speed handling, is it stable or twitchy? Any sensor lift? Are you noticing the steering symptoms in AHC high or normal? In high, there would be some unexpected pulling as caster is aligned for normal height, and caster naturally decreases with on demand suspension lift.

So it's just occurring to me that I only have specs for a landcruiser, not a LX.. though I'd expect the numbers to be very similar if not identical.

This is from the 2013 LC factory service manual, other years would be the same.

Turns out I was a little off on my memory.. @linuxgod has written extensively about alignment specs if you want to do some digging.

Note that "option less" and "full option" refer to the option package of the vehicle. It says earlier in the article that that can change ride height by a couple millimeters. I'm not entirely sure what I'd do on a LX that can correct ride height.. maybe @TeCKis300 has some info.

View attachment 3065921

In regards to alignment, it's somewhat similar. The LX has constant ride height because of AHC, so doesn't really consider full or lesser optioned. Alignment calls for less camber, probably due to less nose dive and the need to compensate for braking alignment. And a touch more caster, probably to account for usage of AHC high.

 

[dstewart3ss]

I know this was asked early, but are you fully stock, not just in suspension? Stock wheels? No wheel spacers? Could be a symptom of scrub radius due to offsets.

The symptoms also read a bit like insufficient caster as @bloc mentioned. How's the high speed handling, is it stable or twitchy? Any sensor lift? Are you noticing the steering symptoms in AHC high or normal? In high, there would be some unexpected pulling as caster is aligned for normal height, and caster naturally decreases with on demand suspension lift.




In regards to alignment, it's somewhat similar. The LX has constant ride height because of AHC, so doesn't really consider full or lesser optioned. Alignment calls for less camber, probably due to less nose dive and the need to compensate for braking alignment. And a touch more caster, probably to account for usage of AHC high.

View attachment 3066284

Bone stock across the board. High speed handling is great, no issues. Only thing noticeable is at lower speeds and seems to mostly be triggered when the road isn’t smooth. Symptoms are all in normal height mode.

Are those specs you posted for the LX?

Thanks!