Want lift with OEM ride

[E J Neil]

Thanks for all the input folks. I am going the Bilstein route.

Any suggestions for an install shop somewhere around Issaquah, WA?

 

[ChillyGNC]

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread but it seemed like the most recent to share. I'm also more of a learner on this forum vs. poster but I've very much appreciated the amount of information that helped make my final decision. I also wanted a lift that did not require new UCA's etc. while trying to maintain as much of a stock oem ride as possible while getting rid of nose dive and lean as this is my DD and 95% road use. Anyway several threads and members eventually led me to the following decision for my '19 Base...

Pre-lift adds were....
-Front windows tinted as much as law would allow
-BBS wheels with HE inserts
-Toyo 285-60R18 XL
Lift
-Dobinson IMS59-60688 IFP Front Struts
-Dobinson C59-540 1.4" Front Coils (black) - thanks to @crikymike at Exit offroad
-Take off 2021 HE (2 row) springs - these are longer than the base and 3 row HE springs (red/white & red/orange marks) thanks to @Eric Sarjeant
-Everything was installed and aligned at H&H in Charlotte, NC - Great experience - Dean is very knowledgeable in all things LC. Highly recommend his shop.

Measurements from center hub to bottom of fender
Pre-lift: no idea on gas fill
Drivers Side
Front - 20"
Rear - 21-1/4"
Passenger Side
Front - 20-1/4"
Rear - 21-1/4"

Post Lift 1/2 tank gas
Drivers Side
Front - 22"
Rear - 23-1/4"
Passenger Side
Front - 21-3/4"
Rear - 23"

First of all, it's noticeably higher when I got in to drive for first time and it definitely drives different but in a very good way. Nose dive gone and lean/roll gone. I was surprised as it was slightly more lift than I thought (1.5") vs. (1.75" ish) but it drives so much better it's much more responsive and tight if that makes sense. For me going this route was 100% the right call. Now I just don't know what to do with larger tires as clearly they look tiny now and I don't want to run e -rated tires for fear of harsher ride quality. Not much to choose from unfortunately. It's either of these two unless someone else knows of other as I'm clearly not a guru.
-275 70R18 General Grabber A/T X SL rated (33.2 diameter)
-285 65R18 Falken Wildpeak A/T3W SL rated (32.6 diameter)

FWIW - I hope this helps others as they are navigating various options as much as they helped me! Thanks all.


Before & After

 

[1Maverick]

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread but it seemed like the most recent to share. I'm also more of a learner on this forum vs. poster but I've very much appreciated the amount of information that helped make my final decision. I also wanted a lift that did not require new UCA's etc. while trying to maintain as much of a stock oem ride as possible while getting rid of nose dive and lean as this is my DD and 95% road use. Anyway several threads and members eventually led me to the following decision for my '19 Base...

Pre-lift adds were....
-Front windows tinted as much as law would allow
-BBS wheels with HE inserts
-Toyo 285-60R18 XL
Lift
-Dobinson IMS59-60688 IFP Front Struts
-Dobinson C59-540 1.4" Front Coils (black) - thanks to @crikymike at Exit offroad
-Take off 2021 HE (2 row) springs - these are longer than the base and 3 row HE springs (red/white & red/orange marks) thanks to @Eric Sarjeant
-Everything was installed and aligned at H&H in Charlotte, NC - Great experience - Dean is very knowledgeable in all things LC. Highly recommend his shop.

Measurements from center hub to bottom of fender
Pre-lift: no idea on gas fill
Drivers Side
Front - 20"
Rear - 21-1/4"
Passenger Side
Front - 20-1/4"
Rear - 21-1/4"

Post Lift 1/2 tank gas
Drivers Side
Front - 22"
Rear - 23-1/4"
Passenger Side
Front - 21-3/4"
Rear - 23"

First of all, it's noticeably higher when I got in to drive for first time and it definitely drives different but in a very good way. Nose dive gone and lean/roll gone. I was surprised as it was slightly more lift than I thought (1.5") vs. (1.75" ish) but it drives so much better it's much more responsive and tight if that makes sense. For me going this route was 100% the right call. Now I just don't know what to do with larger tires as clearly they look tiny now and I don't want to run e -rated tires for fear of harsher ride quality. Not much to choose from unfortunately. It's either of these two unless someone else knows of other as I'm clearly not a guru.
-275 70R18 General Grabber A/T X SL rated (33.2 diameter)
-285 65R18 Falken Wildpeak A/T3W SL rated (32.6 diameter)

FWIW - I hope this helps others as they are navigating various options as much as they helped me! Thanks all.


Before & After

View attachment 3222981

View attachment 3222982

You’ll need SPC UCA and some easy trimming, lose the front mud flap and add a 1/4” steering stop(simple) and install the Nitto Recon 295/70r18 which comes in a SL load Non-E and is very smooth and absorbs every single little bump in the road.

 

[ChillyGNC]

You’ll need SPC UCA and some easy trimming, lose the front mud flap and add a 1/4” steering stop(simple) and install the Nitto Recon 295/70r18 which comes in a SL load Non-E and is very smooth and absorbs every single little bump in the road.

View attachment 3223114

View attachment 3223115

Thanks for the reply. I've not even considered going up to a 34" tire but that looks fantastic.
Question: Are the SPC UCA's required due to tire hitting stock UCA's? Sorry if that is a dumb question, just trying to learn. Also did you add spacers? Many thanks

 

[1Maverick]

Thanks for the reply. I've not even considered going up to a 34" tire but that looks fantastic.
Question: Are the SPC UCA's required due to tire hitting stock UCA's? Sorry if that is a dumb question, just trying to learn. Also did you add spacers? Many thanks

Yes, I should have mentioned you’ll need 1.25” spacers. The SPC or Dobinson UCA are also required for clearance but also to allow for better alignment.

 

[RTaylor]

Bilstein 6112 front coilovers for the front. For the rear, either Bilstein shocks and HE takeoffs or OME 2720. These will give you +1-2”.

Your tire choice will impact your ride quality equally as much as your suspension. P/XL rated tires will be much better than E rated. Or get Michelin Defenders either way.

 

[bloc]

Your tire choice will impact your ride quality equally as much as your suspension. P/XL rated tires will be much better than E rated. .

This can’t be stressed enough.

For anyone curious, go fill your P-metrics to 40+ psi (typical for a LT.. but don’t exceed max pressure on the sidewall!) and find some sharp bumps to hit at speed. Now, understand the ride will be even worse with a LT tire between the increased sidewall stiffness and greater unsprung mass that the stock dampers aren’t designed to handle.

 

[E J Neil]

Bilstein 6112 front coilovers for the front. For the rear, either Bilstein shocks and HE takeoffs or OME 2720. These will give you +1-2”.

Your tire choice will impact your ride quality equally as much as your suspension. P/XL rated tires will be much better than E rated. Or get Michelin Defenders either way

 

[E J Neil]

Maverick - help me, please...I've ordered the Bilstein 6112 with 2.2 inch lift and 1.25 inch spacers on factory wheels. To run 295 tires, I expect to remove the mud flaps, minor trim on front fender lip, and use a heat gun to reshape the inner well but have not heard anyone say that new UCAs are required for clearance.

 

[RTaylor]

The 295s are tall enough that they are likely to rub the stock UCA. Since you got wheel spacers, it will resolve that issue because it pushes the tires away from the UCA.

You should be able to get an adequate alignment. You don’t need aftermarket UCAs, but they would help your steering and ride geometry.

What are you doing with the rear suspension?

For someone who barely goes off-road, the 295s might be overkill. 275s in P/XL would look good with the spacers. And the setup would be more road friendly.

 

[ChillyGNC]

This can’t be stressed enough.

For anyone curious, go fill your P-metrics to 40+ psi (typical for a LT.. but don’t exceed max pressure on the sidewall!) and find some sharp bumps to hit at speed. Now, understand the ride will be even worse with a LT tire between the increased sidewall stiffness and greater unsprung mass that the stock dampers aren’t designed to handle.

@bloc question for you on tires…how much does the weight of a tire affect ride comfort. Example: if you were to take a 275/70R18 E rated tire filled to same pressure but one weighed 61lbs like Falken Wildpeak AT3 and one weighed 52 lbs like Tpho OC AT3 would they ride the same or one more or less harsh? thanks

 

[TeCKis300]

LTs don't have to ride harsh. I'd wager part of the consequence is due to the common fitment of 275s along with too high of RCTIP recommendations on this board.

There's opportunity with 295s to ride better. Dramatically lower inflation pressure requirements, plus I believe the sidewall profile against a narrower wheels softens the ride. With better braking and cornering traction for a heavy and tall rig.

 

[TLC2013]

LTs don't have to ride harsh. I'd wager part of the consequence is due to the common fitment of 275s along with too high of RCTIP recommendations on this board.

There's opportunity with 295s to ride better. Dramatically lower inflation pressure requirements, plus I believe the sidewall profile against a narrower wheels softens the ride. With better braking and cornering traction for a heavy and tall rig.

I agree, and after experimenting with different PSI's I now run between 36-39 psi with my LT275/70r18, significantly smoother ride. Tire wear is still even and high speed handling hasnt been impacted.

 

[E J Neil]

For my rear, I am doing Bilstein 4600 shocks, on factory springs, and adding 20 mm spacers. Shooting for OEM ride as much as possible but if I don't like it, I can always replace those rear springs. I have 150k miles and my current rake is almost 2 inches, and I hate it. Don't care if the backend is lower than the front when I tow something, which isn't very often...could also add air bags if I change my mind. BTW, I am an idiot, this plan is based on all the reading I've done on this site alone.

 

[bloc]

@bloc question for you on tires…how much does the weight of a tire affect ride comfort. Example: if you were to take a 275/70R18 E rated tire filled to same pressure but one weighed 61lbs like Falken Wildpeak AT3 and one weighed 52 lbs like Tpho OC AT3 would they ride the same or one more or less harsh? thanks

There isn’t a good way to quantify that, to be honest.

In some respects a heavier tire can help certain ride attributes, as the extra mass resists upward acceleration and therefore prevents the axle reacting to small/sharp bumps, and if the axle doesn’t react the chassis won’t notice.

But not all bumps are small. That same mass becomes a problem when a large bump causes a reaction and the stock damper is no longer tuned to control it. Not to mention the outsized influence on acceleration and braking.

In terms of tire/wheel weight the best strategy is to stay as close to stock as possible, if on stock dampers. This is one reason rock warriors are great.. they are so light they allow a heavier tire while keeping the package close to stock mass.

To teckis’ point there is often a fair bit of room to improve ride quality with tire pressure. Higher pressure will pretty much always harm ride quality. The issue is what some are saying is unnecessarily high RCTIP is verbatim how the industry recommends translating pressures among different construction types. Tire industry engineers come up with those processes for calculating minimum safe pressure per load… not that that’s the whole story. The RCTIP for a p-metric 285/70r17 will support the load without self destructing but is arguably too low of a pressure for the tire carcass to behave properly during cornering. People running less than RCTIP need to understand they are running less pressure than the industry says is required in the big picture of family safety, etc.

And even that concept has compromises. I rarely tow and usually travel light on my trips, which is a good case for lowering pressures to improve ride quality. However I know from experience this has an unacceptable (to me) fuel efficiency penalty. Plus my kings do a good job of managing the tire weight and pressure.

 

[TeCKis300]

Tire industry engineers come up with those processes for calculating minimum safe pressure per load… not that that’s the whole story. The RCTIP for a p-metric 285/70r17 will support the load without self destructing but is arguably too low of a pressure for the tire carcass to behave properly during cornering. People running less than RCTIP need to understand they are running less pressure than the industry says is required in the big picture of family safety, etc.

Good point and true statement. Not directed at you but to follow that thought for others because there's opportunity to stay within recommendations.

Where we've gone wrong is the assumption that the LC derived pressures are the minimums for load. We know that's not true because the LX derived RCTIP pressures are lower. The LX, that's a heavier vehicle than the LC but same GVWR. This logically tells us that factory recommendations is more than just load.

LCs should use LX derived RCTIPs as a starting point. That can be further tailored to your other points.

 

[ChillyGNC]

So it sounds like the weight of the tire has less to do with the ride quality vs. the tire pressure and width provided they are the same rating? am I reading that correctly?

 

[bloc]

Good point and true statement. Not directed at you but to follow that thought for others because there's opportunity to stay within recommendations.

Where we've gone wrong is the assumption that the LC derived pressures are the minimums for load. We know that's not true because the LX derived RCTIP pressures are lower. The LX, that's a heavier vehicle than the LC but same GVWR. This logically tells us that factory recommendations is more than just load.

LCs should use LX derived RCTIPs as a starting point. That can be further tailored to your other points.

I suspect it has much to do with sidewall height, personally, but the official way to calculate things is clear. What people decide to do after informing themselves is up to them.

So it sounds like the weight of the tire has less to do with the ride quality vs. the tire pressure and width provided they are the same rating? am I reading that correctly?

Generally yes.

Thing is, the weight doesn’t come along by itself. Usually it is the result of more robust construction in the tread and sidewall. So the tire itself can be stiffer independent of pressure.. but in my experience inflation pressure is the single largest factor.

The low pressure required in P285/70r17 I mentioned is 26 or 27 psi. It’s like riding on a cloud. But a cloud that wallows around everywhere.

 

[ChillyGNC]

very interesting and good information appreciate the dialogue everyone. I’m kinda leaning towards the same tire as I have now (Toyo OC AT3) but in a 275 70r17. It’ll be e rated but only 10# more than my 285 60R18 XL also with higher sidewall and I can air it down. May have slightly rougher ride but sounds like I could make it negligible.

 

[bloc]

very interesting and good information appreciate the dialogue everyone. I’m kinda leaning towards the same tire as I have now (Toyo OC AT3) but in a 275 70r17. It’ll be e rated but only 10# more than my 285 60R18 XL also with higher sidewall and I can air it down. May have slightly rougher ride but sounds like I could make it negligible.

That tire will absolutely require more pressure than your current ones, and is square in the middle of Teckis' and my conversation about proper inflation pressures. The officially-derived RCTIP is something like 41psi, whether you want to run less than that on the road is up to you.. but educate yourself. At 41 it will ride very differently from your XLs at (I'm assuming factory) 33.