Various questions about transfer case and parking brake (1 Viewer)

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Didn't quite know how to title this, as I have several questions, all different from one another; but all part of the same job I am doing.

First of all, the t-case has had a leak since I got my 40, which is a '66. However, I think the t-case is a '78-'80. It doesn't matter much, I don't think, as my questions are basic. I needed to replace the t-case rear output shaft cover gasket because I have a leak which drips off one of the cover bolts right onto the parking brake cable. Then it goes into the brake and now the brake won't hold. I haven't yet figured out if the oil is the only reason the brake doesn't work. I just pulled it all off and haven't even cleaned all the parts yet.

Sorry for all the questions, but I am clearly a novice. Aside from a tune-up and basic maintenance, this is the second time I've dug into anything major. The first being a front axle rebuild a few months ago which so far is holding up perfectly, thanks to help from members of the board. I got enough confidence from doing that job to do more, but I am basically just learning along the way. I've done a lot of searching on the forum already, but can't seem to find some specific answers I'm looking for.

So, question 1 is....

1) the shoes aren't damaged other than being all slicked with oil. There is about 3/32" left on them. What is the thickness on a new shoe? And should I bother cleaning these up if they're that oily? Not sure they will ever work well again or not.
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3) the previous owner did a 350 swap and added a cross member support on the transfer case rear output shaft. That is where the leak was coming from. The bolts where the leak is were quite loose. I contacted BTB, who the cross member came from and he advised changing the bolts on the rear output cover to studs to prevent future leaks like this. Is changing the bolts to studs really ideal? Or should I just loctite them back in when replacing this time around? I don't understand how studs will be a stronger hold than bolts and not sure if it's all that necessary. I'm planning on calling them tomorrow as the gentleman (can't remember his name right now) was very kind and helpful when I called to ask for the gasket. Until then, I figured I would see what y'all think about that here.
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3)I can very clearly see the oil dripping off the rear output cover, so I know that's one source of oil in the drum, but when I got the brake drum off, there was a lot more grime and metal dust than I expected. I am wondering if the seal there is leaking too. The seal *looks* good and there are grooves in the drum shaft, but they're not that deep. So how bad does the shaft need to be before I consider a speedi sleeve? If it's not all that bad, would it hurt to sleeve it now anyway? Here's a pic, I can get measurements later, my only caliper battery is dead right now. I think I will be pulling everything again soon to do a clutch, which I don't have time for now. So I am thinking about just letting the seal go for now and seeing what happens until then.
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4) Next, a much different question pertaining to shifting the transfer case. It appears the previous owner cut the shift gate, possibly in an attempt to get 2L, but from what I see the stick hits the front of the hole in the tranny hump before it ever would have hit the gate. In fact, there is at least 0.25" between the stich and the cut out part of the shift gate. I am able to shift from 2H straight over to the right into low, but I still only get 4L. Only way I get 2L is to leave hubs unlocked. Wondering a few things about this. If I take the stick off, can I realign it further back? I've never taken a shifter off, so I am not sure what happens in there! Is it possible that someone slammed it so hard that it moved? Last question on this is, one day the transfer case bumped out of gear and started whining on me. Pulled over and got it back into gear, which fixed that for the moment. Could that possibly have been because the stick isn't going forward enough to engage fully on the gears and allowing it to slip?

5) Finally, I found those wires you see in the photos tucked in behind the cross member. From other threads here, I found folks saying they are the top gear/emissions wires and the reverse lights are on top of the tranny. Just wanted to verify that I have identified these yellow wires correctly as I want to try and hook up reverse lights at some point. For now, I have rear facing lights on a toggle switch that work alright, but it would be nice if they could come on automatically when in reverse so I don't blind people when I forget to turn off the reverse facing high beams! Not that I've actually done that before....:eek:
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Oh, one last thing...... I read on another thread that there is preload to adjust in the rear output on the t-case. Am I going to have to do that if all I am doing is changing the gasket? Since I don't know when it was last done, should I just go ahead and do it anyway? Or should I let it go until I do the clutch?

Thanks for taking to help. Little by little, I'm learning my way around this thing!

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I can kind of help with a few of these and provide a few thoughts:

#1 - I'd toss those shoes and get new ones if you plan on fixing the leak. If you don't fix it, there's no sense buying new shoes because they'll just end up saturated and ruined again.

#2 - The stock cone cover on the back of the xfer case (where your brace is now) only has a paper gasket (which should be smeared with FIPG) between it and the case. The cone cover also has an internal slot on the bottom of it which allows gear oil that gets splattered up into the top of the case to drain back down into the bottom. The stock bolts have lock washers and the FSM doesn't call for a thread sealant to be used here. Sorry if you already knew all of this, I don't mean to be repetitive. It looks like this cross member has eliminated the cone cover and the gear oil splattered up here internally may not be able to drain down any longer. That'd be my guess as to why you're leaking from here. I don't know the stock length of these bolts , but I'd find a way to make sure they're that length plus the additional thickness of the brace, only so you know that they're going far enough into the case. Redoing the gasket with FIPG and using sealant on the bolts may stop the leak, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't. Someone else may have thoughts here.

#3 - A lot of 40's leak from this location. My drum was grooved so I sleeved it and I also replaced the speedo housing with a double sealed unit from Mudrak (do a search for the latter). I also rebuilt my transfer case while doing this, so I corrected the rear output bearing preload at this time. Your drum doesn't look too bad, so it may just be the seal or you may have some play in the output shaft from the bearing or improper bearing preload.

Bonus question - You do have to set the preload for the rear output on the transfer case, but that's not the same spot as the output on the transmission (which is where your brace is hooked up). Not sure if this is where you talking about replacing a gasket or not. The preload on the rear output of the transfer case is set by placing shims against the bearing, torquing down the speedo housing to spec, installing the parking brake drum, and using a scale to measure the turning force. Google "Coolerman Rebuild Transfer Case", he has an excellent writeup on how to do this.
 
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Studs are always a stronger way to mount two surfaces together. Looking at your crossmember, that's an Advance Adapter part which BTB likely sold back in the day. The really old one used bolts, all the newer units use studs. You might get lucky and be able to find the studs down at Napa or a very well stocked hardware store.

Looking at your parking brake, it doesn't look that grooved on the seal surface. Can you actually "catch" your fingernail on it? You can always install a Speedi Sleeve if it's really worn and that should solve that leak.
 
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Thank you both for the replies. Both were helpful, and make me feel less "alone" while learning the ropes.

I can kind of help with a few of these and provide a few thoughts:

#1 - I'd toss those shoes and get new ones if you plan on fixing the leak. If you don't fix it, there's no sense buying new shoes because they'll just end up saturated and ruined again.

#2 - The stock cone cover on the back of the xfer case (where your brace is now) only has a paper gasket (which should be smeared with FIPG) between it and the case. The cone cover also has an internal slot on the bottom of it which allows gear oil that gets splattered up into the top of the case to drain back down into the bottom. The stock bolts have lock washers and the FSM doesn't call for a thread sealant to be used here. Sorry if you already knew all of this, I don't mean to be repetitive. It looks like this cross member has eliminated the cone cover and the gear oil splattered up here internally may not be able to drain down any longer. That'd be my guess as to why you're leaking from here. I don't know the stock length of these bolts , but I'd find a way to make sure they're that length plus the additional thickness of the brace, only so you know that they're going far enough into the case. Redoing the gasket with FIPG and using sealant on the bolts may stop the leak, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't. Someone else may have thoughts here.

#3 - A lot of 40's leak from this location. My drum was grooved so I sleeved it and I also replaced the speedo housing with a double sealed unit from Mudrak (do a search for the latter). I also rebuilt my transfer case while doing this, so I corrected the rear output bearing preload at this time. Your drum doesn't look too bad, so it may just be the seal or you may have some play in the output shaft from the bearing or improper bearing preload.

Bonus question - You do have to set the preload for the rear output on the transfer case, but that's not the same spot as the output on the transmission (which is where your brace is hooked up). Not sure if this is where you talking about replacing a gasket or not. The preload on the rear output of the transfer case is set by placing shims against the bearing, torquing down the speedo housing to spec, installing the parking brake drum, and using a scale to measure the turning force. Google "Coolerman Rebuild Transfer Case", he has an excellent writeup on how to do this.

Not really knowing if that rear seal is leaking makes me worry about the same thing with putting new shoes on it. I will go ahead and order a new seal and new shoes. In the meantime, maybe it's good insurance to just try and clean these up real good and put it all back together to see if the oil continues to leak. If not, I have a spare seal for when I pull everything next time. Either way, I don't have to worry about destroying the new brakes.

I didn't see anything in the FSM about FIPG, or even the gasket for that matter. I think I did see the FSM say to use sealant on the bolts with the cone cover, but no mention of FIPG or torque specs. I'll look through again. I think the PO was smart enough to use longer bolts, in fact, the cross member should have come with them and I know he would have used them. When I pull them, I will look to see if the length is good. Or better yet, I'll take Rock40's advice and just swap to studs.

The grooves are really not that bad. I can feel them, but we are talking about thousands of an inch that I would have to measure to figure out how worn they are. Will go get the battery for the calipers and measure it tonight. Darn electronic gadgets!

I finally found the preload adjustments in the FSM. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out to see if it's an easier read than the manual.

Studs are always a stronger way to mount two surfaces together. Looking at your crossmember, that's an Advance Adapter part which BTB likely sold back in the day. The really old one used bolts, all the newer units use studs. You might get lucky and be able to find the studs down at Napa or a very well stocked hardware store.

Looking at your parking brake, it doesn't look that grooved on the seal surface. Can you actually "catch" your fingernail on it? You can always install a Speedi Sleeve if it's really worn and that should solve that leak.

Thanks, will call BTB and ask for studs, they have them and will ship to the door for me. I still don't get why studs are stronger, I need to wrap my head around it. But it makes sense when I think about all the other places you find studs being very important torque spots and safety related parts.....you know, like holding the wheels on the truck! I'll trust in the studs and go with it.

No, it's really not that bad. I guess I'll try what i said before.
1) Order new shoes
2) clean and reinstall old shoes to check seal
3) If leaking still, replace seal and speedi sleeve together before putting new shoes on

I just don't know if it's really leaking there or not. i'll find out soon enough. I think I might have a leak between the t-case and tranny too. Looking into putting the bypass hose on there until I pull everything next time. If I didn't need the truck to be running, I would just pull everything now and start from the clutch and move back. But, I need to use the truck as it's all I've got for towing my utility trailer which I need to use regularly. So, I'll just end up getting really good at pulling apart and putting back together the drivetrain as I make my way one job at a time!

I'll follow up here when I get more info. Thanks again guys!
 

73FJ40

After another night of rust removal!
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New parking brake shoes are still available from Toyota. I tried to use aftermarket shoes from one of the leading suppliers, but the parking brake drum wouldn't fit over the aftermarket shoes no matter how hard I tried.

Switched to OEM, the drum slid right on. It seems the metal that the aftermarket shoes are fabricated from may be thicker than OEM, screwing up dimensions for drums that haven't been turned down.
 

kevos37

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2x on the dual seal that Tezmac recommended. That is a common area to leak, by using a "re-engineered" housing you have 2 seals in place. Just installing a new seal is okay but, if the grooves are too deep where the previous seal rode you have the same scenario for failure. That's where a speedi sleeve steps in, it provides a new surface for the seal to ride on. Another alternative is you can always buy another parking brake drum with little to no groove for around the cost of a speedi sleeve.

Kevin
 
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Ok, thanks for all the recommendations. I just ordered the studs for the cone cover adapter, t-case gasket kit which has all the gaskets I'll need when I put it together now and when I tear it apart again, rear output shaft seal, speedi sleeve, and a new pair of shoes.....toyota style! Only thing left on my list is the FIPG sealant. I will order that somewhere else and everything should be here by end of the week.

One last thing. I did some reading about studs vs bolts. I get it now, makes sense. Unfortunately, I learned that I installed the studs in my knuckles incorrectly. I double nutted them and cranked them on. I didn't know any better as it was my first time doing anything of that scope on a vehicle. So now I'm hoping I didn't damage my knuckles, kicking myself a little but now. But now that I know better, this time around what is the appropriate method? Just finger tighten them real snug? And the FSM specified to use sealant on the bolts, so do I hit em with red or blue loctite first? Or is there something better? BTB didn't know of a torque spec to use on the stud nuts, so should I just tighten them up as snug as I can? Or look up specific torque recommendations on the specs of the studs based on diameter, length and thread that they send and just go with that?
 

pjohnson

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I learned about Permatex Ultra Grey from MarlinCrawler. I use it wherever I need gasket sealer or FIPG. Works great. I think the keys to any gasket sealer or FIPG are clean surfaces and allowing enough time to properly cure.
 
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Thanks guys, I'll order up a tube of black gold and oompa-loompa goop. I put marlin eco seals in my axle, so I trust theit opinion, but I think I'll stick to Toyota goop for now. If I ever find myself in a pinch, I will go to permatex next, as I have read about a lot of good results with it. I alao think your advice on proper prep is the key more so than the product used. I'll keep that in mind for sure.
 
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Bonus question - You do have to set the preload for the rear output on the transfer case, but that's not the same spot as the output on the transmission (which is where your brace is hooked up). Not sure if this is where you talking about replacing a gasket or not. The preload on the rear output of the transfer case is set by placing shims against the bearing, torquing down the speedo housing to spec, installing the parking brake drum, and using a scale to measure the turning force. Google "Coolerman Rebuild Transfer Case", he has an excellent writeup on how to do this.

Doing research and planning for putting this back together. Only finding time here and there, but parts are still a couple days away. First thing I was confused about is how I was supposed to be adjusting any preload with what I was seeing. All I have off the output shaft is the stake nut (which I just realized I forgot to order!!!:bang:). So now that I looked for that writeup, which I had already come across just didn't realize it was what you were recommending, I see that I need to remove speedo housing. It makes a LOT more sense now! I wasn't planning on removing that at all, though. Doesn't it make more sense to just put it back together and see if preload is still good? For all I know, PO did this not too long ago and it's still good. He didn't drive it much, it was basically just a camping/fishing/hunting truck. if I need to change shims, I'll have to buy those too.:bang: Is this something I can just get at auto parts store? Or is this size shim specific to Toyota?
 
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As for the shims, they are still available from Toyota if you need them and they're not expensive at all. They come in a few thicknesses you apply depending on how much you need to adjust the preload, 0.10mm to 0.25mm if I remember correctly, and they were only a couple bucks each, so I just ordered one of each when I rebuilt my xfer case.

As for this leak in general, this is just my 2c for how I would deal with this if it were my rig (you may want to solicit other opinions!).

If your drum isn't scored (or it's been sleeved) and you're replacing the speedo seal, I would then check the torque on the 5 speedo housing bolts, install the parking brake drum and nut to spec, and then check the preload. Don't forget to put the case in neutral and I'd also disconnect the front driveshaft. If your preload is good and you don't have radial play in the shaft, I'd consider the job done and I'd drive it (after doing whatever other work you're also doing now).

If the preload is off, since you already have the front driveshaft off, I'd check the front nose cone and the bearing retainer to make sure they're tight. If the preload is off, the front and back end of the case are both right, and I didn't really know the condition of the xfer case internals, I'd drop the whole thing and rebuild it, as something is probably off with one or more of the bearings or races. But that may be something you're not wanting to tackle at the moment. You could then drop the speedo housing and adjust the shims to get the preload you need, but you're likely just putting a bandaid on a bigger problem.

If there's radial play in the output shaft, the above is null and void and I'd drop the case.
 
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Okay, this is a log one, sorry…



Thanks for the tips. I have a bit of a problem, though. The H-41 and H-42 t-cases in the 1975-1980 FSM I have look a little different. I have the 78-80 t-case, but there is no FSM for this specific year. I checked SOR and this 75-80 book is the only one available for my year. Am I to assume the specs are the same for my model even though the case is different? I checked the 1980 FSM and it's the late '80 model that started using the split case. I followed the specs listed anyway and ended up with just under 1lb of preload. The book says preload with new bearings should be 2.6-9.0. But old bearings reused it says "more than 1.04". I am really close to that, but clearly a shim would put it into spec. Looks like each shim is a different part, they don't come in a pack. So I'm wondering which ones I should order. I was thinking about just getting one of each since it seems you can get a pretty wide variety of thicknesses by using them in different combinations. But I am not sure I will need more than the thinnest one. Any tips on what I should order?



Also, I have about 1mm of axial play. If I change the shims, will they "take up" the axial play at all? I figured no, so is that amount of play acceptable? I also have a minor amount of radial play. It doesn't feel sloppy to me, it's very difficult to gauge by hand, but I would say maybe around 0.5mm or so. This, I assume the shims will reduce for sure, right? I also noticed that there is zero radial play if I push the shaft in toward the case. I only feel slop when it is pulled out of the case with the axial play I have. Not sure if that means anything good or bad, it's just something I noticed. If this play is acceptable, I will order the shims and put it back together.



Unfortunately, I wanted to double check everything last night and tried to check torque the back plate down again and snapped of one of the bolts in the speedo housing. It was cold, dark and I was tired, should have called it a day. The bolts threads looked a little damaged (flattened) when I disassembled. But the damage was the area up near the head, where it would be either inside the lock washer or the back plate, and not in the speedo housing threads. So I figured it would be alright to use them again since they are only torqued to 20lb. Well, I tightened it a little, right at 20lb and it got a little easier. I thought I had broken it, but figured it was really unlikely at 20lb on this size bolt and went a little more figuring I might have just not had the plate flat and it was settling a bit. Boy was I wrong and learned my lesson. If I would have just pulled it out when I felt something wrong, I probably could have unthreaded it with the pieces partly intact. Now I am waiting on an extractor from Amazon, which will arrive tomorrow. And now I need to order new bolts from the dealer to replace these. So it will be a few more days before he's back on the road no matter what.

Edit to add:
Sorry for what seem like simple questions here. I've been searching and searching, still confused. Looking at the parts diagram, I see the assembly of the drum to the output shaft calls for a washer, then a shim and then the stake nut. When I disassembled, all I had was a washer and then the stake nut. Am I really missing a piece? Also, my washer is bent concave from torquing the nut down. And I can see the previous owner flipped it once because there are indentions from the shaft splines on both sides of the washer. So while I'm ordering the bearing shims, should I be getting a new washer and shim for that too? I see on SOR the washer is discontinued, and only used parts available, which may be way PO used this one and flipped it. Or it could just be off the shelves from hardware store, and that's why it's bent.





 
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Thanks again for the help here. I almoat managed to get it totally back together tonight. Got too late, pretty much just need to do drive shafts tomorrow and fill er up with oil.

Had lots of problems along the way, but managed to solve them all. Preload is in spec and there is zero radial movement in the shaft now. Only took the next size up shim, which is .05mm thicker.

One thing I didn't know is what kind of grease I should put in the moving parts of the parking brake. I left it for tonight to try and find out a little more info, but can't find anything. It does work though! Finally don't have to turn it off every time I get out to open and close the gate!
 

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