Valve adjustment shims (1 Viewer)

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rc51kid

rc51kid

Joined
May 31, 2010
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Its been a while since I adjusted valves and just cant remember how I got shims if at all. I am getting ready to check them again. If I need a different size is there a good source for them or a way to have them on hand with special ordering one or two at a time and having that kind of down time?

I know for my motorcycle I bought a shim kit before I even opened up the engine. Last time I did it on the land cruiser I had a second car I was driving around at the time. Hoping they will all be in spec or that I recorded the shims I have in there now and I can know what I need before I pull the cams out.
 
You have a 1fz right? I thought the valves generally only got adjusted on these motors when the head came off. Wouldn't it be better to check them first then order what shims you need, if any?
 
When I've done shims, I measured clearances, measured existing shims. Then using the spread sheet/Chart in the FSM, work out what shims i needed to order.

It means pulling rocker cover and throttle body off to measure, and again to change the shims.
 
mudgudgeon said:
When I've done shims, I measured clearances, measured existing shims. Then using the spread sheet/Chart in the FSM, work out what shims i needed to order.

It means pulling rocker cover and throttle body off to measure, and again to change the shims.
Click to expand...
I hear you. It would be nice to not do it twice but I figure that might be how it is since I cant leave it apart for a week or two while shims are ordered if i need some. No big deal.
 
rc51kid said:
I hear you. It would be nice to not do it twice but I figure that might be how it is since I cant leave it apart for a week or two while shims are ordered if i need some. No big deal.
Click to expand...
The tough part is that there are 17 individual shim sizes from 2.50mm to 3.30mm, they are roughly $6ea. Without knowing which ones you would need, I am not sure how you would order them. You might need (24) 2.80mm or (6) 2.50mm (12) 2.70mm and (6) 3.30mm so unless you ordered 12+ full sets at a cost of ~$1200, I am not sure you could ensure you had every one that you needed. The other difficulty is availability is becoming an issue with long wait times.

If no downtime is the major concern, I think you would be money ahead to buy a used head, take it to the machine shop, have them rebuild it and measure the shims so you can order the right ones and then swap it out and sell your head when you are done.

13753-66020Shim, Valve Adjusting2.86-
13753-66040Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66060Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66080Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66100Shim, Valve Adjusting5.04-
13753-66120Shim, Valve Adjusting6.09-
13753-66140Shim, Valve Adjusting6.06-
13753-66160Shim, Valve Adjusting1.16-
13753-66180Shim, Valve Adjusting1.00-
13753-66200Shim, Valve Adjusting1.00-
13753-66220Shim, Valve Adjusting6.06-
13753-66240Shim, Valve Adjusting6.07-
13753-66260Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66280Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66300Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66320Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66340Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76
 
Last edited:
scottryana said:
The tough part is that there are 17 individual shim sizes from 2.50mm to 3.30mm, they are roughly $6ea. Without knowing which ones you would need, I am not sure how you would order them. You might need (24) 2.80mm or (6) 2.50mm (12) 2.70mm and (6) 3.30mm so unless you ordered 12+ full sets at a cost of ~$1200, I am not sure you could ensure you had every one that you needed. The other difficulty is availability is becoming an issue with long wait times.

If no downtime is the major concern, I think you would be money ahead to buy a used head, take it to the machine shop, have them rebuild it and measure the shims so you can order the right ones and then swap it out and sell your head when you are done.

13753-66020Shim, Valve Adjusting2.86-
13753-66040Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66060Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66080Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66100Shim, Valve Adjusting5.04-
13753-66120Shim, Valve Adjusting6.09-
13753-66140Shim, Valve Adjusting6.06-
13753-66160Shim, Valve Adjusting1.16-
13753-66180Shim, Valve Adjusting1.00-
13753-66200Shim, Valve Adjusting1.00-
13753-66220Shim, Valve Adjusting6.06-
13753-66240Shim, Valve Adjusting6.07-
13753-66260Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66280Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66300Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66320Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76-
13753-66340Shim, Valve Adjusting5.76
Click to expand...

True.

Last time I did shims I needed maybe 6 or 8 shims.
Most were either in spec, or got shuffled to a new position
 
mudgudgeon said:
True.

Last time I did shims I needed maybe 6 or 8 shims.
Most were either in spec, or got shuffled to a new position
Click to expand...
When I did my rebuild last October I had to purchase ~8. All but 1 exhaust was out of spec. And 1 intake was out of spec. But, I was able to move many to new locations. I was able to get them all in the middle of the specification range. I wonder how they are now 7,000 miles later. Oh well...
 
Thanks guys. I know I checked them originally around 200,000 and they were within spec if my notes were right. Then head was rebuilt around 240,000 and they were adjusted in spec then at the time of rebuild. Now I am 340,000. I will open it up and check them and put new gaskets in while I have it open. I can keep my fingers crossed that they will be inspec. If not I can pull the cams and mesure shims, put it all back together and the pull it apart when shims come in. Double the work but that is how it goes. The more times I do it the faster i get right?
 
I've been considering this, as I'm in the middle of R&R head gasket job myself. @scottryana is absolutely right about the ridiculous price for a complete set of shims, but, given the very little experience most people have with replacing shims, (from my engine builder's POV) maybe Toyota knows they aren't really something you need a box of; Toyota didn't recommend cutting the head when these engines.were new, so there was probably a very small likelihood of need for shims.

I have it on good authority this was due to the EPA regulations which, at the time, the engines just barely passed. so Toyota was hedging its bets by not recommending a shop lessen the head thickness, and taking the chance customers would get an engine back that didn't pass emissions.

FWIW, my machine shop told me he regularly cuts the heads when he gets them (actually what he said was he'd never had one he didn't cut). He trims the tops of the valve stems to suit. If the valve stems were even 0.030 case hardened, you'd never cut through it to match a 0.006-0.010 skim cut on the underside of the head. Back when I was designing hardened parts, I never specified less than a 0.060 case depth, because it's just too hard to regulate heat flow that close, especially on parts with thin cross sections.

So you have two choices, if you're pulling the head: cut the valve stems or replace the shims.

If you're not pulling the head, you have only one choice, the one you're thinking about, replacing the shims. If you were a machine shop, and you were rebuilding 1FZ-FE engines regularly, it would pay to make up shims in the thickest size, harden them and set them aside to grind to thickness as needed. If you only have one engine, this obviously isn't practical. So, you're left with advice @mudgudgeon gave, which I think is probably the only way to go.
 
Ozark80 said:
You have a 1fz right? I thought the valves generally only got adjusted on these motors when the head came off. Wouldn't it be better to check them first then order what shims you need, if any?
Click to expand...
I should have answered sooner, yes 1FZ. But you dont know what size you need until you mesure the clearance AND remove your old one and mesure it. Removing the old one is the slow part requiring removing cams.
 
Malleus said:
I've been considering this, as I'm in the middle of R&R head gasket job myself. @scottryana is absolutely right about the ridiculous price for a complete set of shims, but, given the very little experience most people have with replacing shims, (from my engine builder's POV) maybe Toyota knows they aren't really something you need a box of; Toyota didn't recommend cutting the head when these engines.were new, so there was probably a very small likelihood of need for shims.

I have it on good authority this was due to the EPA regulations which, at the time, the engines just barely passed. so Toyota was hedging its bets by not recommending a shop lessen the head thickness, and taking the chance customers would get an engine back that didn't pass emissions.

FWIW, my machine shop told me he regularly cuts the heads when he gets them (actually what he said was he'd never had one he didn't cut). He trims the tops of the valve stems to suit. If the valve stems were even 0.030 case hardened, you'd never cut through it to match a 0.006-0.010 skim cut on the underside of the head. Back when I was designing hardened parts, I never specified less than a 0.060 case depth, because it's just too hard to regulate heat flow that close, especially on parts with thin cross sections.

So you have two choices, if you're pulling the head: cut the valve stems or replace the shims.

If you're not pulling the head, you have only one choice, the one you're thinking about, replacing the shims. If you were a machine shop, and you were rebuilding 1FZ-FE engines regularly, it would pay to make up shims in the thickest size, harden them and set them aside to grind to thickness as needed. If you only have one engine, this obviously isn't practical. So, you're left with advice @mudgudgeon gave, which I think is probably the only way to go.
Click to expand...
Cutting the head wont effect valve clearance if you are talking about decking. That's what I call cutting the head. But cutting valve seats will and that is what should be done on a rebuild. Nicely cut valve seats are critical to good flow and not burning seats. I had a head on a older car that had the valve seats cut poorly. The area on the seat that didnt match up perfectly with the valve gets really hot becouse there is not good heat transfer and it is exposed to combustion gasses longer. Needless to say that motor burned a bunch of valves.

I have been told people grind shims. It sounds like a bad idea to me but I know it is done. To me the valve train is so critical to good longevity and expensive why screw with it unless really in a bind for time or something. If I can get the right oem size I will use that. But I do wish I could have them on hand.

One of the hardest things I always struggle with is finding a machine shop that wont screw stuff up. When I find a good one I hang on to it!
 
rc51kid said:
I should have answered sooner, yes 1FZ. But you dont know what size you need until you mesure the clearance AND remove your old one and mesure it. Removing the old one is the slow part requiring removing cams.
Click to expand...

You don't need to remove cams. There's a simple tool that cab be bought or made to compress springs/buckets or at a time. Use a magnet and small screw driver to remove shim. Measure, replace shim for later.
 
Screenshot_20220205-014145_eBay.jpg

This is simple version. Hooks under cam, rests on rims of shim bucket, rotate tool to comress spring and hold bucket down, use magnet to pluck shim out. Release spring while you measure shim. Repeat to replace shim.


Screenshot_20220205-014003_eBay.jpg

Or this. More fiddly, and slower IMO.
The centre tongue hooks under cam, the two fingers rest on the outer edge of shim buckets. rotate handle to push bucket down.
Harder to position just right.

An example only, not sure the size works for 1fzfe
www.ebay.com

VALVE SHIM CLEARANCE ADJUSTER TOOL FOR YAMAHA MOTORCYCLE EQUIV OEM YM-04125 LL | eBay

Application: For use on all Suzuki 4 stroke models fitted with top shim type valve tappets. Use with Laser 6489 Tappet Shim Pliers. Jaguar XJ8 X308 1997-2003 XK8 X100 1996 > ABS Ring Tool Socket Equiv To 206-066A.
www.ebay.com
 
The last time I did this I was able to shuffle the shims around enough between them to only need a couple of new shims. At the time I was living next to SOR to I just drove over and picked up what was needed.
 
Wow. A flood of great info. I will take a look at the tools and get one. It would be really nice not to remove those cams.

I checked my notes and I didnt record the size of all the shims. I will do that this time on any of the ones that come out.
 
NLXTACY said:
The last time I did this I was able to shuffle the shims around enough between them to only need a couple of new shims. At the time I was living next to SOR to I just drove over and picked up what was needed.
Click to expand...
Would it be worth Witsend stocking like 2 of each size? At least that way we could get them in a few days if needed. I trust you to ship something out quickly for a few extra dollars of expedited shipping.
 
rc51kid said:
Would it be worth Witsend stocking like 2 of each size? At least that way we could get them in a few days if needed. I trust you to ship something out quickly for a few extra dollars of expedited shipping.
Click to expand...
Ryan details the reason exactly. Nowadays I’d just machine what I needed.
 
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