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- #21
Just in case I still have brackets and connectors available. As soon as it gets a little warmer I probably will make another batch since I still have the jig on the machine. Just PM me.
Bill
Upgrading stock alternator to 130/150 amp (3 Viewers)
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Just in case I still have brackets and connectors available. As soon as it gets a little warmer I probably will make another batch since I still have the jig on the machine. Just PM me.
Bill
- Thread starter
- #22
There has been some questions as to how to do the wiring for this modification so I will post something here and some pictures, some of which will be redundant. I am not an electrical engineer so if I get something wrong please correct me.
Apologies to dial ups for the pictures.
The only wire that needs to be upgraded is the one that runs from the alternator to the positive post on the battery. If a person is running a single battery a new wire can just be run from the "B" post on the alternator through a fuse to the battery. The stock "B" terminal wire would still be connected to the alternator. Up by the battery is a plastic box marked AM1. Inside the box is a couple of large wires, one of which is the wire that comes from the stock alternator. This wire could be unbolted here or left connected as a parallel wire.
As far as wire size goes, it depends on the length of run of wire. As best I can determine with one battery in the stock location a number 4 wire should be the minimum. For dual batteries with longer runs something up to a 2/0 could be used. There are online charts for wire size and distance. Using a bigger wire size is almost always better.
Included is a picture of a some fuse connectors that would work. The holder takes fuses from 100 to 300 amp which are purchased separately. I understand the alternator should be fused at 20% over the capacity. Keep in mind the fusing is to protect the wires. So you can't put in a large fuse with a small wire or the wire will just burn up which is the thing we are trying to avoid.
More...
Bill
Apologies to dial ups for the pictures.
The only wire that needs to be upgraded is the one that runs from the alternator to the positive post on the battery. If a person is running a single battery a new wire can just be run from the "B" post on the alternator through a fuse to the battery. The stock "B" terminal wire would still be connected to the alternator. Up by the battery is a plastic box marked AM1. Inside the box is a couple of large wires, one of which is the wire that comes from the stock alternator. This wire could be unbolted here or left connected as a parallel wire.
As far as wire size goes, it depends on the length of run of wire. As best I can determine with one battery in the stock location a number 4 wire should be the minimum. For dual batteries with longer runs something up to a 2/0 could be used. There are online charts for wire size and distance. Using a bigger wire size is almost always better.
Included is a picture of a some fuse connectors that would work. The holder takes fuses from 100 to 300 amp which are purchased separately. I understand the alternator should be fused at 20% over the capacity. Keep in mind the fusing is to protect the wires. So you can't put in a large fuse with a small wire or the wire will just burn up which is the thing we are trying to avoid.
More...
Bill
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Mine is NOT available. It will either go on mine or my wife's trail truck. I have not yet decided which one gets it. I am leaning toward Sarah's truck at the moment.
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- #24
Here are a some pictures showing where the stock wires are on the stock alternator and where they go on the new alternator. These have mentioned and posted in other threads but this will hopefully keep this together in one thread. The pin outs are shown with the color codes that I know of so far. Any mistakes please point them out to me so I can correct them.
The idea is just to pop out the 3 existing wires from the stock 80 amp alternator connector and push them in the holes of the new connector until they click in.
The "L" pin is for the idiot "L"ight"
The "IG" pin is hot with the "IG"nition on. It must have power with the key on or the alternator will not work.
The "S" pin "S"enses the voltage and adjusts output. Always has power to it.
The "M" pin is not used on the cruiser.
Bill
The idea is just to pop out the 3 existing wires from the stock 80 amp alternator connector and push them in the holes of the new connector until they click in.
The "L" pin is for the idiot "L"ight"
The "IG" pin is hot with the "IG"nition on. It must have power with the key on or the alternator will not work.
The "S" pin "S"enses the voltage and adjusts output. Always has power to it.
The "M" pin is not used on the cruiser.
Bill
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- #25
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- #26
Thanks for the tips.
I think one thing that helps with getting the belts on is first leaving the new bracket off. Then put the belts in the pulleys and tip the alternator into the top existing mount. I know if I put the alternator on first it was tough to try to then put the belts over the pulleys.
Bill
Good tips and good pictures. I have all the parts and the bracket is just amazing. What a really nice piece! Picked up a 150 amp with 14K miles for $100 from car-parts, but I think I will have it tested before the install.
I'll probably put the install off as I figure on removing everything to make the install go as smoothly as possible...maybe even remove the radiator. Maybe make it a project to preventatively replace some heater hoses and the PHH while I'm in there.
I'll probably put the install off as I figure on removing everything to make the install go as smoothly as possible...maybe even remove the radiator. Maybe make it a project to preventatively replace some heater hoses and the PHH while I'm in there.
Dan -
Is a 15-25% smaller diameter (conversion) pulley readily available for the 130A alternator?
I'll call you on Monday. Thanks, Mack
Is a 15-25% smaller diameter (conversion) pulley readily available for the 130A alternator?
I'll call you on Monday. Thanks, Mack
- Thread starter
- #29
Here is an email from a member I received and am posting with his permission. John has some great tips on the install.
Bill:
Had a chance on Saturday to get the alternator put on. Your kit went on really easy and the fit and all was great. I did experiment with belts and decided on a gates 7450 sliding it on over the water pump pulley “bigger easier”.
The factory is a gates 7445 which is 45.08 inches versus 7450 45.58 inches long. You might want to pass it on your thread. Could not get the worn 7445 on so after some larger belts fit 7453 and 7455 worked my way down to the 7450.
By the way I removed the battery box and the oil filter and had plenty of room to get the alternator in and out. I read the thread that the factory says remove the distributor don’t have a FSM. But anyways really nice the power windows are noticeably quicker even with the fan on high and the headlights on at idle. By the way I had the 150 amp tested at my local alternator shop and at idle speed produced 147 amps on their machine burn’t the guys finger it made so much juice . I see there was some discussion on power consumption of the alternator, you might clarify to these people that it takes more power to operate a larger alternator that is inherently wrong. As I think was described it only loads up on demand to satisfy that demand 10 amp demand 10 amp load. The second part is that a larger amperage alternator actually for any given load will run cooler and have less heat losses which rob horsepower. Or bottom line a mute point.
> personal stuff <
I see you have stopped building the bracket but if you would like me to post my success on IH8mud I would be happy if you let me know.
If you begin to build or have built other custom stuff for the cruiser let me know “the bracket was great quality work”, would be interested in purchasing your products.
Sincerely;
John
Bill:
Had a chance on Saturday to get the alternator put on. Your kit went on really easy and the fit and all was great. I did experiment with belts and decided on a gates 7450 sliding it on over the water pump pulley “bigger easier”.
The factory is a gates 7445 which is 45.08 inches versus 7450 45.58 inches long. You might want to pass it on your thread. Could not get the worn 7445 on so after some larger belts fit 7453 and 7455 worked my way down to the 7450.
By the way I removed the battery box and the oil filter and had plenty of room to get the alternator in and out. I read the thread that the factory says remove the distributor don’t have a FSM. But anyways really nice the power windows are noticeably quicker even with the fan on high and the headlights on at idle. By the way I had the 150 amp tested at my local alternator shop and at idle speed produced 147 amps on their machine burn’t the guys finger it made so much juice . I see there was some discussion on power consumption of the alternator, you might clarify to these people that it takes more power to operate a larger alternator that is inherently wrong. As I think was described it only loads up on demand to satisfy that demand 10 amp demand 10 amp load. The second part is that a larger amperage alternator actually for any given load will run cooler and have less heat losses which rob horsepower. Or bottom line a mute point.
> personal stuff <
I see you have stopped building the bracket but if you would like me to post my success on IH8mud I would be happy if you let me know.
If you begin to build or have built other custom stuff for the cruiser let me know “the bracket was great quality work”, would be interested in purchasing your products.
Sincerely;
John
- Thread starter
- #30
Glad you got the pieces of the puzzle together Brian. Check out John's way of installing and you might decide you can leave the radiator in.
Bill
I recently finished my 150 amp alternator install using Bill's bracket, connector and instructions and just wanted to say Thanks. The quality of that bracket and the included hardware is amazing. I picked up a 150 amp '06 sequoia alt with 14k miles for $75. This is probably the best bang for the buck upgrade I've done to the truck.
To reiterate what others have said, don't bother having the alternator tested at the local parts store. I first had mine tested at an alternator/starter shop, and it tested good. I then took it to my local 'Car Quest', and the kid disappeared into the back room for 20 minutes, then tried to tell me it was bad.
They probably sell a lot of needless replacements this way.
Some install notes, YMMV.
If you are replacing the wire that goes from the alternator B+ to the Battery, there is a free and easy way to Increase the wire size that goes to the engine bay fuse box:
To reiterate what others have said, don't bother having the alternator tested at the local parts store. I first had mine tested at an alternator/starter shop, and it tested good. I then took it to my local 'Car Quest', and the kid disappeared into the back room for 20 minutes, then tried to tell me it was bad.
They probably sell a lot of needless replacements this way.Some install notes, YMMV.
- Remove the battery box, oil filter, and the 3 bolts holding the PS reservoir to the engine and you'll have plenty of room to fit the new unit in.
- I replaced the B+ and the ground to the engine block, along with running a new ground to frame with 2/0 wire. Along the way I also replaced my battery with an Optima Yellow Top D31A (with Marine style threaded posts -Free from a family member who couldn't use it)
If you are replacing the wire that goes from the alternator B+ to the Battery, there is a free and easy way to Increase the wire size that goes to the engine bay fuse box:
- There are 2 white wires going to the B+ ring terminal on the alternator. The larger one goes to the battery through a fusible link (which you are replacing with new larger wire and fuse). The smaller white wire goes to the engine bay fuse box.
- There is also a black/blue wire that goes from the battery (via the fusible link that is in the same 'black box' as the larger white wire) to the engine bay fuse box. This wire is smaller gauge than the larger white wire mentioned above.
- Cut the SMALL WHITE WIRE AT THE RING TERMINAL that was on the B+, leaving the larger white wire on the ring terminal. Run this large wire over to the fuse box, routing it the same way the black/blue wire routes, disconnect the black/blue wire from the fuse box and replace it with the larger white wire (you'll have to bend the ring terminal 90*, and lay it UNDER the mounting tab, to replace the screw).
- DISCONNECT THE BLACK/BLUE WIRE AT THE FUSIBLE LINK OR IT'LL STAY HOT. I contemplated leaving both of these wires connected to the fuse box, but figured it was unnecessary, and very very remotely hazardous should the box somehow draw enough to blow one fusible link but not the other.
- Crimp the smaller white wire in the new ring terminal along with your new large gauge wire going between the Battery (through a fuse) and the B+ so it'll continue to feed the components in the fuse box as it did before.
Shaun -
Any chance you could post a photo and wiring diagram of your wiring mod? I need all the help I can get with this stuff.
I'm wiring up a 130A alt now, starting with 2 Ga cable from the alt B+ to a 175A fuse, then on to the battery. As I look at the relatively small size of the stock harness originally from B+ to the underhood fuse box, I'm wondering how hard it would be to replace it with larger diameter wire(s), since its a pretty short run. Is that necessary, or will the stock harness handle the new Alt output? Lord knows I'm no EE, but it seems that a larger feed, at least to the fuse box, will help take full advantage of the new Alt. Anybody tried that?
Thanks - appreciate the good info, Mack
Any chance you could post a photo and wiring diagram of your wiring mod? I need all the help I can get with this stuff.
I'm wiring up a 130A alt now, starting with 2 Ga cable from the alt B+ to a 175A fuse, then on to the battery. As I look at the relatively small size of the stock harness originally from B+ to the underhood fuse box, I'm wondering how hard it would be to replace it with larger diameter wire(s), since its a pretty short run. Is that necessary, or will the stock harness handle the new Alt output? Lord knows I'm no EE, but it seems that a larger feed, at least to the fuse box, will help take full advantage of the new Alt. Anybody tried that?
Thanks - appreciate the good info, Mack
You should replace the black/blue strip wire with a larger gauge or run a parallel same gauge in the section which goes from the engine fuse box to the ignition switcher since this wire power several accesories which are on, in the accesory position or the ignition position, one of them with a high current demand in the ignition position is the power windows (of course the contacts inside the ignition switch should be in good condition and not overheated or pitted).
You will notice right away an improvement in the windows speed when rolling them up.
I've been working on my install the last few nights. This is in conjunction with a major cooling system overhaul, so it's been easier to install.
Everything has gone together pretty well. The bracket is just awesome as mentioned before. I just can't get over the quality of the bracket. The 150 amp alternator a perfect fit. Once I finally figured out how to get the wires out of the old plug they went right into the new plug for a nice factory fit.
The only problem I'm having right now is belt fitment. Stock belts just aren't happening. I see that someone has gotten away with about 1/2" longer than stock, so I'm going to try that. I almost think a 1" longer belt will be required, but I'm not sure how much adjustment is available with the new alternator.
Everything has gone together pretty well. The bracket is just awesome as mentioned before. I just can't get over the quality of the bracket. The 150 amp alternator a perfect fit. Once I finally figured out how to get the wires out of the old plug they went right into the new plug for a nice factory fit.
The only problem I'm having right now is belt fitment. Stock belts just aren't happening. I see that someone has gotten away with about 1/2" longer than stock, so I'm going to try that. I almost think a 1" longer belt will be required, but I'm not sure how much adjustment is available with the new alternator.
Brian,
I reused my good stock belts. Try taking the belt loose from the waterpump and put it on the alternator first, then slide it over the larger water pump pulley.
It is a really difficult to get them on that small pulley, but with a little gentle help from a screwdriver, you can get them on the waterpump pretty easily.
I purchased the longer belts and didn't need them by using this method.
I reused my good stock belts. Try taking the belt loose from the waterpump and put it on the alternator first, then slide it over the larger water pump pulley.
It is a really difficult to get them on that small pulley, but with a little gentle help from a screwdriver, you can get them on the waterpump pretty easily.
I purchased the longer belts and didn't need them by using this method.
- Thread starter
- #36
Brian,
Great to hear you are getting it up and running.
Did you try tipping the alternator pulleys in to the belts? I know it is counter intuitive, but for the initial install it is easier to leave the new bracket off until the belts are installed. This way the alternator pulley can be tipped into the belts instead of trying to stretch the belts over the pulleys. The alternator is then hung in place with the belts now in the pulley grooves by the top stock mount bolt. The new bracket then can easily be installed by sliding it in behind the belts.
Something that also may help to install belts is to remove the stock belt idler pulley temporarily. There is only one bolt that holds it on and by removing it there will be a little more slack in the belts. Just replace it before tensioning the belts. HTH
Bill
Picture – tipping the alternator in to the belts.
Great to hear you are getting it up and running.
Did you try tipping the alternator pulleys in to the belts? I know it is counter intuitive, but for the initial install it is easier to leave the new bracket off until the belts are installed. This way the alternator pulley can be tipped into the belts instead of trying to stretch the belts over the pulleys. The alternator is then hung in place with the belts now in the pulley grooves by the top stock mount bolt. The new bracket then can easily be installed by sliding it in behind the belts.
Something that also may help to install belts is to remove the stock belt idler pulley temporarily. There is only one bolt that holds it on and by removing it there will be a little more slack in the belts. Just replace it before tensioning the belts. HTH
Bill
Picture – tipping the alternator in to the belts.
Ya, I did that try that method, but I just couldn't get it in the mount with the belt attached. I'm dealing with brand new Toyota belts which are probably the problem. I spent a good few hours trying a number of methods and I can see they just aren't going on.
So, I picked up a set of Goodyear belts about 1/2" longer and they fit. I haven't tried to tighten yet. Hopefully, there's enough adjustment. My only concern is that the belts are sort of cheap (good thing there's two) and they are cogged. I'm not sure how that will affect things.
I'll work on it some more tonight.
So, I picked up a set of Goodyear belts about 1/2" longer and they fit. I haven't tried to tighten yet. Hopefully, there's enough adjustment. My only concern is that the belts are sort of cheap (good thing there's two) and they are cogged. I'm not sure how that will affect things.
I'll work on it some more tonight.
- Thread starter
- #38
Brian,
I think I might have found your problem. You said you could not get it in the mount with the belts attached. That is the top stock mount I take it? After reading your problem I went and installed a 150 amp with new belts and found that the bushing in the stock mount has to be tapped flush or beyond for the alternator to tip in. In other words the stock opening has to be as wide as possible. My bushing was sticking in a hair and would dig into the alternator preventing it from sliding in to the stock mount. I just tapped it out a little further and the alternator dropped right in with the new belts. Mine does not have the belt idler so I don’t know if that makes a difference or not. Maybe after you tap the bushing out further check for a burr on the front of the alternator mount and hit it a file just in case.
It should work with the stock belts. Once I got the alternator in the top stock mount the new OEM belts were loose and definitely needed tensioned.
Bill
I think I might have found your problem. You said you could not get it in the mount with the belts attached. That is the top stock mount I take it? After reading your problem I went and installed a 150 amp with new belts and found that the bushing in the stock mount has to be tapped flush or beyond for the alternator to tip in. In other words the stock opening has to be as wide as possible. My bushing was sticking in a hair and would dig into the alternator preventing it from sliding in to the stock mount. I just tapped it out a little further and the alternator dropped right in with the new belts. Mine does not have the belt idler so I don’t know if that makes a difference or not. Maybe after you tap the bushing out further check for a burr on the front of the alternator mount and hit it a file just in case.
It should work with the stock belts. Once I got the alternator in the top stock mount the new OEM belts were loose and definitely needed tensioned.
Bill
Bill, awful lot of dust on that oil filter
I was able to get the stock belts on. I turned the motor over via the main bolt and that got 'em on in just a few seconds. Having the stock belts does make me feel better.
I'll be firing up tomorrow night. Still putting stuff together with my other projects. The only thing that kind of concerns me now is the alternator pulley. I took it off via an impact wrench and I put the new one on that way. No way to really check torque. I'm pretty sure it's on tight, but whether it meets the torque spec of somewhere near 90 ft/lbs or not, I have no idea and I would guess not.
What did you guys do to make sure the pulley was on tight, and wasn't going to fly off at the most inopertune time?
I'll be firing up tomorrow night. Still putting stuff together with my other projects. The only thing that kind of concerns me now is the alternator pulley. I took it off via an impact wrench and I put the new one on that way. No way to really check torque. I'm pretty sure it's on tight, but whether it meets the torque spec of somewhere near 90 ft/lbs or not, I have no idea and I would guess not.
What did you guys do to make sure the pulley was on tight, and wasn't going to fly off at the most inopertune time?
