UCA’s, ICON vs SPC vs Dobinson (1 Viewer)

[Prado GX460]

I have a set of Dobinson's UCAs going on later this week. They look really good sitting in the box... . They have serviceable made in Japan 555 ball joints and rubber bushings like the factory arms. I don't need massive adjustability, just correction for a minor ~2.5" lift. I don't really "need" them, but the factory arms put me at the outer limits of the adjustment range. @crikeymike ('mud member) sells them and is having a sale right now.

I recently installed Dobinsons 2.5 lift with Dobinsons UCA’s. The Dobinson’s UCA’s are solid and well built. They should last as long if not longer as the stock ball joint. I’m very happy with the castor it gives and the clearances it allows at this lift.
Check out my post for pics.

 

[linuxgod]

I have SPCs. They're relatively inexpensive compared to options like Icon, and they work well. I was unable to get sufficient caster in my alignment after a mild lift, though some other people have had success. YMMV, but personally I do recommend getting UCAs if you are doing any sort of lift.

At extremely low speeds I have some squeaking but I cannot tell if it's the SPC UCA bushings, Tough Dog shock bushings, or something else. I do grease the UCA ball joints every oil change but it doesn't change the noise. I've also hit various bits with silicone lube but it doesn't seem to help, probably because it doesn't really penetrate the bushings.

Pros for the SPCs are they are adjustable, so depending on your lift you can add more (or less) caster as required. I wish the SPCs had greaseable bushings like Trail Tailor, though, as it would let me rule the UCAs in/out as the source of my squeaking.

 

[crikeymike]

I have SPCs. They're relatively inexpensive compared to options like Icon, and they work well. I was unable to get sufficient caster in my alignment after a mild lift, though some other people have had success. YMMV, but personally I do recommend getting UCAs if you are doing any sort of lift.

At extremely low speeds I have some squeaking but I cannot tell if it's the SPC UCA bushings, Tough Dog shock bushings, or something else. I do grease the UCA ball joints every oil change but it doesn't change the noise. I've also hit various bits with silicone lube but it doesn't seem to help, probably because it doesn't really penetrate the bushings.

Pros for the SPCs are they are adjustable, so depending on your lift you can add more (or less) caster as required. I wish the SPCs had greaseable bushings like Trail Tailor, though, as it would let me rule the UCAs in/out as the source of my squeaking.

Sounds like your alignment tech wasn't sure how to do it properly. There's no reason to not get proper caster with the SPC's.

If it were squeaking at the bushings, they may not be tight/torqued all the way. Some simple silicone spray would make any squeak go away temporarily. But I don't think that stuff is supposed to be used on rubber, from memory.

 

[linuxgod]

Sounds like your alignment tech wasn't sure how to do it properly. There's no reason to not get proper caster with the SPC's.

If it were squeaking at the bushings, they may not be tight/torqued all the way. Some simple silicone spray would make any squeak go away temporarily. But I don't think that stuff is supposed to be used on rubber, from memory.

Oh I got proper alignment with the SPCs. It was the factory UCAs that we couldn't get more than about +2 degrees with. I'm at close to +4 now

I can recheck the bushing nuts but I definitely torqued them to spec at the time. Silicone spray doesn't make the sound go away, so maybe that isn't it. Hard to tell where it comes from because it only happens at low speed, mainly offroad, but I haven't been able to recreate it when parked or on a lift.

 

[crikeymike]

Oh I got proper alignment with the SPCs. It was the factory UCAs that we couldn't get more than about +2 degrees with. I'm at close to +4 now

I can recheck the bushing nuts but I definitely torqued them to spec at the time. Silicone spray doesn't make the sound go away, so maybe that isn't it. Hard to tell where it comes from because it only happens at low speed, mainly offroad, but I haven't been able to recreate it when parked or on a lift.

Oh, ok that's good. Yeah, I keep hearing of guys having the proper UCA's but the alignments not coming out right. My misunderstanding there. +4 is awesome!!

 

[Prado GX460]

Oh, ok that's good. Yeah, I keep hearing of guys having the proper UCA's but the alignments not coming out right. My misunderstanding there. +4 is awesome!!

here’s my alignment with the Dobinsons UCA’s. Not adjustable, but less parts to go wrong or make noise.

 

[linuxgod]

Oh, ok that's good. Yeah, I keep hearing of guys having the proper UCA's but the alignments not coming out right. My misunderstanding there. +4 is awesome!!

No problem. I tend to ramble so entirely possible I wasn't clear

We went +2 degrees on the UCA ball joint, the rest gets set from the LCA cams. (Not sure what the Dobinsons or other non-adjustable kits use but I'm assuming +1 degrees?) DS ended up at ~3.8 deg and PS was about 4.2 or 4.3. It's actually a bit higher than spec, though that was set with the front end jacked up about 1/2" in order to simulate the effect of the vehicle setup when I have my trailer attached (which is >50% of my mileage) since I can't entirely re-create that setup at his shop. I'm not sure what caster would read when unloaded, but it should be close. The alignment shop I used does nothing but lifted and heavy truck and race car alignments.

 

[crikeymike]

No problem. I tend to ramble so entirely possible I wasn't clear

We went +2 degrees on the UCA ball joint, the rest gets set from the LCA cams. (Not sure what the Dobinsons or other non-adjustable kits use but I'm assuming +1 degrees?) DS ended up at ~3.8 deg and PS was about 4.2 or 4.3. It's actually a bit higher than spec, though that was set with the front end jacked up about 1/2" in order to simulate the effect of the vehicle setup when I have my trailer attached (which is >50% of my mileage) since I can't entirely re-create that setup at his shop. I'm not sure what caster would read when unloaded, but it should be close. The alignment shop I used does nothing but lifted and heavy truck and race car alignments.

That sounds good, really nice caster numbers.

The Dobinsons UCA's are set with 3 degrees of added caster. I think most fixed UCA's do the same, so that they cover 2-3" of lift height properly. It tends to be 1 degree of caster lost with each inch lifted from what I've seen, so adding 2-3* works well.

Great to have a shop like that around. What's their name by chance? I need to make a list of "recommended shops" since people ask all the time. Maybe I should start a thread, and then add to it. That would be helpful.

 

[linuxgod]

That sounds good, really nice caster numbers.

The Dobinsons UCA's are set with 3 degrees of added caster. I think most fixed UCA's do the same, so that they cover 2-3" of lift height properly. It tends to be 1 degree of caster lost with each inch lifted from what I've seen, so adding 2-3* works well.

Great to have a shop like that around. What's their name by chance? I need to make a list of "recommended shops" since people ask all the time. Maybe I should start a thread, and then add to it. That would be helpful.

These guys, up in Northbrook, which is about 30 minutes north of Chicago. They're well-known and recommended by several different mechanics I've spoken to.

Thalmann Alignment - Alignment and Suspension | Northshore, IL

30 years' experience. Specialized suspension repairs. Front end alignment and 4-wheel alignment service.. Call 847-272-1810.

www.thalmannsalignment.com

It's two guys - the owner is older (I can't recall his name) and the younger guy who has done mine is Justin.

 

[Mineral]

FWIW, I put SPC UCAs on my rig back in March of 2018. So, three years ago.

The ball joints just died. 23k miles of use.

SPC has been really cool about warranty replacing the parts.

Will have the ball joints replaced and hope to get more than 3 years out of this set.

 

[crikeymike]

FWIW, I put SPC UCAs on my rig back in March of 2018. So, three years ago.

The ball joints just died. 23k miles of use.

SPC has been really cool about warranty replacing the parts.

Will have the ball joints replaced and hope to get more than 3 years out of this set.

That's amazing that they only lasted such a short amount of time.

 

[linuxgod]

FWIW, I put SPC UCAs on my rig back in March of 2018. So, three years ago.

The ball joints just died. 23k miles of use.

SPC has been really cool about warranty replacing the parts.

Will have the ball joints replaced and hope to get more than 3 years out of this set.

Were yours the greaseable ball joints? I've got 45k and 4 years on mine so far and no issues so far.

On the plus side ball joint replacement is very easy on the SPCs as it just unbolts

 

[HSTexan]

Bumping this for some friendly discussion given the newer options on the market. I went with SPC on mine at the advice of Filthy Motorsports when I was spec'ing my suspension. I originally wanted to do the relatively new at the time Camburg Kinetik billet's, but Ben steered me away from them into the more "reliable" SPC's. I dropped my cruiser off at Slee on Monday for a handful of work and during their initial inspection have now discovered my ball joints have some play and are on their way out too. Made it barely over 2 years with them and just over 31K miles. Not thrilled to be honest.

They're going to try to warranty them out for me, but even after these get replaced I'm already thinking about replacing them in favor of a new UCA in the near future or when the ball joints die again. Talked to no fewer than 3 local guys who have also had SPC ball joints go bad in 2-3 years. Some went JBA who don't make anything for the 200. The Kinetik is still attractive though pricey and I'm not sure how I feel about uniballs on a DD and the need for frequent lubing given the mileage I do in a year. Dobinsons has a billet arm out now using an OE style 555 ball joint which seems like a pretty competitive option to the SPC's for low maintenance. Total Chaos of course has been fairly proven for uniballs.

If you were buying new UCA's with the offerings of today's market what say you Mud?

 

[linuxgod]

Bumping this for some friendly discussion given the newer options on the market. I went with SPC on mine at the advice of Filthy Motorsports when I was spec'ing my suspension. I originally wanted to do the relatively new at the time Camburg Kinetik billet's, but Ben steered me away from them into the more "reliable" SPC's. I dropped my cruiser off at Slee on Monday for a handful of work and during their initial inspection have now discovered my ball joints have some play and are on their way out too. Made it barely over 2 years with them and just over 31K miles. Not thrilled to be honest.

They're going to try to warranty them out for me, but even after these get replaced I'm already thinking about replacing them in favor of a new UCA in the near future or when the ball joints die again. Talked to no fewer than 3 local guys who have also had SPC ball joints go bad in 2-3 years. Some went JBA who don't make anything for the 200. The Kinetik is still attractive though pricey and I'm not sure how I feel about uniballs on a DD and the need for frequent lubing given the mileage I do in a year. Dobinsons has a billet arm out now using an OE style 555 ball joint which seems like a pretty competitive option to the SPC's for low maintenance. Total Chaos of course has been fairly proven for uniballs.

If you were buying new UCA's with the offerings of today's market what say you Mud?

I got ~70k out of mine before they developed enough play to warrant replacement, though your 30k is not unheard of. I don't know what's typical for other aftermarket UCA manufacturers, but I'd be very curious to see what others say. I agree the SPC balljoints seem like a weak spot. OTOH they are easily replaced and a new pair is $140.

Are your ball joints being greased at every oil change? Most shops don't actually do it unless specifically asked as most vehicles don't have zerks so they don't think about it. Obviously if you're doing your own maintenance this wouldn't apply.

There are a number of options out there but I'm not clear on the average life.

 

[bloc]

Bumping this for some friendly discussion given the newer options on the market. I went with SPC on mine at the advice of Filthy Motorsports when I was spec'ing my suspension. I originally wanted to do the relatively new at the time Camburg Kinetik billet's, but Ben steered me away from them into the more "reliable" SPC's. I dropped my cruiser off at Slee on Monday for a handful of work and during their initial inspection have now discovered my ball joints have some play and are on their way out too. Made it barely over 2 years with them and just over 31K miles. Not thrilled to be honest.

They're going to try to warranty them out for me, but even after these get replaced I'm already thinking about replacing them in favor of a new UCA in the near future or when the ball joints die again. Talked to no fewer than 3 local guys who have also had SPC ball joints go bad in 2-3 years. Some went JBA who don't make anything for the 200. The Kinetik is still attractive though pricey and I'm not sure how I feel about uniballs on a DD and the need for frequent lubing given the mileage I do in a year. Dobinsons has a billet arm out now using an OE style 555 ball joint which seems like a pretty competitive option to the SPC's for low maintenance. Total Chaos of course has been fairly proven for uniballs.

If you were buying new UCA's with the offerings of today's market what say you Mud?

I was very happy with my OMEs for the 40k miles I had them on, only removing because I went back to stock ride height. The ball joints were still tight despite only a couple greasings in that time, inner sleeves of the bushings not worn, and the whole time they were silent and reliable.

 

[crikeymike]

Dobinsons has a billet arm out now using an OE style 555 ball joint which seems like a pretty competitive option to the SPC's for low maintenance.

They're a great option, and require zero maintenance. Same life expectancy in the ball joints as OEM, 100k+

SPC come out of the box with a little vertical movement in the ball joint. This video explains how to check their joints, which isn't the same as a regular joint, so any shop that checks them like all ball joints in the rear world may feel vertical movement, but SPC says that's normal. It's weird to me.

 

[HSTexan]

Are your ball joints being greased at every oil change? Most shops don't actually do it unless specifically asked as most vehicles don't have zerks so they don't think about it. Obviously if you're doing your own maintenance this wouldn't apply.

IIRC correctly they were not greased for the first 15K miles they were on and then had been greased at 15K and 25K

They're a great option, and require zero maintenance. Same life expectancy in the ball joints as OEM, 100k+

SPC come out of the box with a little vertical movement in the ball joint. This video explains how to check their joints, which isn't the same as a regular joint, so any shop that checks them like all ball joints in the rear world may feel vertical movement, but SPC says that's normal. It's weird to me.

I guess for the time being I'm going to have to trust Slee knowing how to properly test them. Even if not covered by warranty they're $150 or so for a pair. If they happen to die again in 2 years though the Dobinsons are looking more and more attractive for my wants.

 

[skrypj]

The SPC's got a reputation on the GX460's and other J120/150's for crapping out pretty fast. They were initially pretty popular when I first bought my GX back in 2020 but I find that most people recommend steering clear of them now. I think they are in the process of, or already have, redesigned their ball joints to fix the issue.

 

[linuxgod]

They're a great option, and require zero maintenance. Same life expectancy in the ball joints as OEM, 100k+

SPC come out of the box with a little vertical movement in the ball joint. This video explains how to check their joints, which isn't the same as a regular joint, so any shop that checks them like all ball joints in the rear world may feel vertical movement, but SPC says that's normal. It's weird to me.

That's a really interesting video.

Can't speak for the OP but for my truck I knew my upper joint was bad because (a) the truck would wander a bit on the highway (not tracking very straight like normal) and (b) there was some clunking when going over potholes (which are numerous in Chicago). The clunking wasn't awful, just something which post-replacement is very obvious. Feels like a tire bouncing over potholes when it's very overinflated.

Personally if my joint goes another 60-70k I will probably swap the UCA next time for another brand as Slee noted that the bushings tend to need replacement somewhere after 100k anyway. So we'll see what Dobinson's pricing is at that time