Bambino840
Jive Turkey
I'm looking forward to watching this go down. Glad you discovered that issue in the garage , always better there.
Troopy (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter arnott1t
- Start date
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arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #442
In the interest of documentation and armchair critque fuel in these locked in time let me outline the tentative plan for the driveline now.
Rear:
Double triangulated 4link with trailing arm lowers that allow the 12" 2.5" Radflo coil overs to be mounted to the arm
This was done in order to get the shock away from the tire and has an added perk of netting more travel.... how much.... I'm better 14-16" overall.
2" Radflow air bumps for the corners
Axle is an AAM 10.5", Know as a 14 bolt, but this variety comes with disc brakes stuck and a drum in hat e brake.
Gearing will depend on tires.... do I go up to 40's while were at all this.... is it even worth it....
Detroit eventually in the rear
Front:
3 link or radius arms.
12"x2.5" coil overs
2" air bumps
Dana 60 from a dodge 1 tone, its the kingpin model so pretty rugged....
Stock axles for now which are pretty tough as is
It has a new LSD up front so Il'l try that for now...
Need to find a way to get axles back in shop on my own.... they are in shed behind horse sleigh.... ulg...
Then the link calculator fun can start.
Rear:
Double triangulated 4link with trailing arm lowers that allow the 12" 2.5" Radflo coil overs to be mounted to the arm
This was done in order to get the shock away from the tire and has an added perk of netting more travel.... how much.... I'm better 14-16" overall.
2" Radflow air bumps for the corners
Axle is an AAM 10.5", Know as a 14 bolt, but this variety comes with disc brakes stuck and a drum in hat e brake.
Gearing will depend on tires.... do I go up to 40's while were at all this.... is it even worth it....
Detroit eventually in the rear
Front:
3 link or radius arms.
12"x2.5" coil overs
2" air bumps
Dana 60 from a dodge 1 tone, its the kingpin model so pretty rugged....
Stock axles for now which are pretty tough as is
It has a new LSD up front so Il'l try that for now...
Need to find a way to get axles back in shop on my own.... they are in shed behind horse sleigh.... ulg...
Then the link calculator fun can start.
With the shave, full width truss and all the link brackets, I can barely pick up one end of the axle. Its shocking the weight difference between a 14Bolt and Cruiser Diff
What are you doing for paint on your frame? I am gunning to get some work done. I bought a box so I figure I should get off my ass
arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #448
Some numbers to wet your whistle...
Stock troopy axles are 57" wide,
3" wheel spacers add 6" making my old axles 63" wide WMS to WMS.
Overall the truck was ~78" wide outside of tire to outside of tire.. I like this width a lots and felt like it was stable but also not obnoxious....
14bolt is closer to 69" wide... new wheels I though were 1" more offset so would make up some of that but now hutchinson website changed.... so I need to measure one...... It looks like the same offset.... which would mean I'd be a full 6" wider or 3" per side.... yuck....
Dana 60 is 67.5" wide vs 63. so still wider by a fair bit....
Damn....
Stock troopy axles are 57" wide,
3" wheel spacers add 6" making my old axles 63" wide WMS to WMS.
Overall the truck was ~78" wide outside of tire to outside of tire.. I like this width a lots and felt like it was stable but also not obnoxious....
14bolt is closer to 69" wide... new wheels I though were 1" more offset so would make up some of that but now hutchinson website changed.... so I need to measure one...... It looks like the same offset.... which would mean I'd be a full 6" wider or 3" per side.... yuck....
Dana 60 is 67.5" wide vs 63. so still wider by a fair bit....
Damn....
You are keeping the splitcase? I wonder how $$$ a shorter axle shaft would be if you shortened the PS of the housing and went offset diff? Or would that introduce interference between the pumpkin and the frame? Throw a monkey wrench in the link setup?
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arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #451
Ya need to stick to hutchinsons as I love them and own them already..... more offset can help but you end up with hubs that stick out past the tire.... tacky...
Here is what the suspension geometry is looking like for the rear.
My leading plan is to narrow both axles to 64" or so which is what the 14bolt will be with two short factory axles. That should give me room for stuff but also not really be much wider than I am today....
The front is going to be the tricky spot if i go 3 link. Just not much room up there. Radius arms would be an easy way out and likely be great on a truck like troopy.
Here is what the suspension geometry is looking like for the rear.
My leading plan is to narrow both axles to 64" or so which is what the 14bolt will be with two short factory axles. That should give me room for stuff but also not really be much wider than I am today....
The front is going to be the tricky spot if i go 3 link. Just not much room up there. Radius arms would be an easy way out and likely be great on a truck like troopy.
arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #452
My saga of assumptions being wrong continues.....
So tonight I got a tape measure and started measuring things:
HJ47 full float axle with 3" spacers on each side ~61-61.5WMS - WMS not 63 like I though.....
My rockmonster wheels are 5.25" backspace vs the 4.5" they sell now.... good news and that is what I had hoped....
Roll oversteer in the above links is bad... I've reworked them some more to get to understeer and a better spot. I think I've done as much work as I can until I start making more firm mock ups and tack things into place....
So the plan:
Narrow each axle to about 64" WMS to WMS. This means I'll be able to use two factory short rear axles and end up just about exactly where I want for width. With the offset in the wheels this will put me within 1/2" of the overall width I am now. So really not to bad.
This means I need to first narrow my 14bolt. Couple options here:
1. Go and steal @Behemoth60 alignment bar and pucks to get this thing deal eye stright
2. Use and internal sleeve to align the 2 sections of axle tube
3. Use a external guide (Read angle iron holding each side in with clamps to get it straight
Scanning the youtube for seeing what others have done an all 3 methods are covered and seem to be used. I'm sure Peter's alignment rig would be the best but also the most 8 hours worth of driving to get and use. Shipping a 6' bar wouldn't likely be possible....
So I think I'll take it step by step.... re measure everything a good 12 odd more times to be sure on my numbers. Cut up the long side of the axle tube.... eye ball it and then decide..... I feel like I can get it close enough for a troopy.... but .... we'll see.
Need to buy some DOM for links tomorrow if the metalsupermarket will habe it. Some big thick stuff for lowers and lighter stuff for uppers. And buy some 3" square 3/16" wall to use to build brackets from that I'll need to put this all together..
Need those vice grips with chain to hold things too.
The front sounds easier to narrow. Cut off the C. Carefully cut out the internal piece of axle tube from the C and then head and press it back on again to the desired width. Weld and enjoy.... I'm sure it will be harder but that is what they say happens.
I at least feel like I have a plan.
So tonight I got a tape measure and started measuring things:
HJ47 full float axle with 3" spacers on each side ~61-61.5WMS - WMS not 63 like I though.....
My rockmonster wheels are 5.25" backspace vs the 4.5" they sell now.... good news and that is what I had hoped....
Roll oversteer in the above links is bad... I've reworked them some more to get to understeer and a better spot. I think I've done as much work as I can until I start making more firm mock ups and tack things into place....
So the plan:
Narrow each axle to about 64" WMS to WMS. This means I'll be able to use two factory short rear axles and end up just about exactly where I want for width. With the offset in the wheels this will put me within 1/2" of the overall width I am now. So really not to bad.
This means I need to first narrow my 14bolt. Couple options here:
1. Go and steal @Behemoth60 alignment bar and pucks to get this thing deal eye stright
2. Use and internal sleeve to align the 2 sections of axle tube
3. Use a external guide (Read angle iron holding each side in with clamps to get it straight
Scanning the youtube for seeing what others have done an all 3 methods are covered and seem to be used. I'm sure Peter's alignment rig would be the best but also the most 8 hours worth of driving to get and use. Shipping a 6' bar wouldn't likely be possible....
So I think I'll take it step by step.... re measure everything a good 12 odd more times to be sure on my numbers. Cut up the long side of the axle tube.... eye ball it and then decide..... I feel like I can get it close enough for a troopy.... but .... we'll see.
Need to buy some DOM for links tomorrow if the metalsupermarket will habe it. Some big thick stuff for lowers and lighter stuff for uppers. And buy some 3" square 3/16" wall to use to build brackets from that I'll need to put this all together..
Need those vice grips with chain to hold things too.
The front sounds easier to narrow. Cut off the C. Carefully cut out the internal piece of axle tube from the C and then head and press it back on again to the desired width. Weld and enjoy.... I'm sure it will be harder but that is what they say happens.
I at least feel like I have a plan.
arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #453
The revised link design after doing more reading and tinkering. My squat is lower than maybe I hoped but I can tune it a little with some adjustment in the upper frame mount. The thing I was trying to get was the roll understeer number at static ride height. This is supposed the truck feel more stable and predictable. One description was something like a skateboard. When you lean on a skateboard it naturally turns to try and get back underneath you. That is what understeer in a truck will do. at least according to people on the internet....
I'm 90% committed to radius arm front now too. It so simple and it works.... I like that.
Tyler, In your 4 link sheet, set you Front Drive Bias to 0. That will change your rear anti-squat number, and give you a number for anti-squat when you are in 2WD.
I am guessing your AS is closer to 50%.
This internet guy says you want a higher roll center height in the rear, than in the front, just like you have.
Start watching at 10:42 Minutes.
I am guessing your AS is closer to 50%.
This internet guy says you want a higher roll center height in the rear, than in the front, just like you have.
Start watching at 10:42 Minutes.
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Good video showing how to use the axle alignment bar.
Mine has threaded ends that screw onto the spindles, as well as the 'Puck's' that hold the alignment bar through the Center diff section.
Mine has threaded ends that screw onto the spindles, as well as the 'Puck's' that hold the alignment bar through the Center diff section.
arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #457
Took my measurements and cut the axle...
Now I basically have a bit of time to prep for
Tomorrow. Which will be weld the shave kit day. Need a new mig gas tank for that though. I’ll pick up a length of 3” dom tube too for an inner sleeve of the axle. Then get the alignment bar Saturday and weld this all together again. If things went super well I might have it back under to build link mounts Sunday or Monday!
Now I basically have a bit of time to prep for
Tomorrow. Which will be weld the shave kit day. Need a new mig gas tank for that though. I’ll pick up a length of 3” dom tube too for an inner sleeve of the axle. Then get the alignment bar Saturday and weld this all together again. If things went super well I might have it back under to build link mounts Sunday or Monday!
arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #458
Well I got the gas and went to work welding in the shave plate. And I found some tube to sleeve the axle.
Pre heat the entire assembly to 400 f or so. Tack on the outside using the cover to hold the shave plate.
Remove the cover.
Heat again back to 400
weld the jnside
weld the outside.
Heat it up again and wrap it to cool it slow.
Pre heat the entire assembly to 400 f or so. Tack on the outside using the cover to hold the shave plate.
Remove the cover.
Heat again back to 400
weld the jnside
weld the outside.
Heat it up again and wrap it to cool it slow.
arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #459
So after all that welding I needed to clean up all the spatter. My 1/4” air belt sander inspired by Jon banjovi was exactly the thins for such a thing
prepped the weld joint too. Looks like it all came in to exactly the right width... who knew
Bought a new non consumable cutting disk. Seems a little slower but was over all impressed. They were like 25 bucks so they need to outlast 5 Walters and I’ll be money ahead.
Lastly I drilled some holes for some spot weld for the sleeve and clamped everything up.
My plan is to see just how far off this is compared to the alignment bar. Then all us rednecks will know.
prepped the weld joint too. Looks like it all came in to exactly the right width... who knew
Bought a new non consumable cutting disk. Seems a little slower but was over all impressed. They were like 25 bucks so they need to outlast 5 Walters and I’ll be money ahead.
Lastly I drilled some holes for some spot weld for the sleeve and clamped everything up.
My plan is to see just how far off this is compared to the alignment bar. Then all us rednecks will know.
arnott1t
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #460
Well it’s all welded up. The alignment bar was clutch!
this was the before the last alignment puck. You can see it has more gap on bottom than top. So the old angle iron wasn’t as arrow straight as I hoped
the after
Made some lower link mounts too for the anitwobble end of the trailing arm
this was the before the last alignment puck. You can see it has more gap on bottom than top. So the old angle iron wasn’t as arrow straight as I hoped
the after
Made some lower link mounts too for the anitwobble end of the trailing arm