TrollHole Cruisers Carb Install on a 60 (2 Viewers)

[onemanarmy]

Knowing that I can just cap the port that is on the carb insulator is great. That simplifies everything. I thought it had to be plumbed to the VCV, and that was what was bothering me.

I already have on BVSV capped, so I'll cap the other one.

I have plenty of caps. Bought some in anticipation of this job.

Then figure out the charcoal canister piping and will be good to go.

thanks for the help talking through this @Slow Left

i'll draw up a diagram once I'm done for the other visual learners out there.

 

[Slow Left]

Knowing that I can just cap the port that is on the carb insulator is great. That simplifies everything. I thought it had to be plumbed to the VCV, and that was what was bothering me.

I already have on BVSV capped, so I'll cap the other one.

I have plenty of caps. Bought some in anticipation of this job.

Then figure out the charcoal canister piping and will be good to go.

thanks for the help talking through this @Slow Left

i'll draw up a diagram once I'm done for the other visual learners out there.

No worries. Yeah, if the VCV for the EVAP is functioning correctly, it might just be easier to keep it but make sure the two 3mm hoses on it are routed correctly...with the one on the black part pulling vac by T-ing into the hose that runs from the advancer port at the base of the carb to the primary vac advance port on the dizzy pot...and the other one (I think) runs up to one of the 3 ports on the air filter housing right above the carb.

If you get rid of the VCV for the EVAP, I suspect you'll have to swap the two hoses on top of the charcoal cannister and then plug that pipe coming off the insulator below the carb...
Double check on what folks are doing with the charcoal cannister hoses and insulator pipe when they eliminate the VCV for the EVAP, though, I'm just shooting from the hip on that one...

Also, concerning general carb cleanliness, I add in StarTron to my gas tank to keep down the bacteria population that feeds off the ethanol that gas manufacturers are now adding to the gasoline. It will help keep all those small circuits in the carb free and clean...

NAPA carries it, but charges double what other stores (check Advance Auto if you have one locally or call over to Home Depot, too, they might have it...) do...

 

[onemanarmy]

thanks for the tip. I'm gonna take it all off, see how it runs and then add anything back if I think it needs it, but it appears that my gas tank has rust in it, so thats a bummer. My new fuel filter got full of crud in about 10 mins, but the engine never died. Looks like it'll need to be dropped and cleaned, and then filled up with fresh gas. Hope to find the time for that soon.

 

[Slow Left]

thanks for the tip. I'm gonna take it all off, see how it runs and then add anything back if I think it needs it, but it appears that my gas tank has rust in it, so thats a bummer. My new fuel filter got full of crud in about 10 mins, but the engine never died. Looks like it'll need to be dropped and cleaned, and then filled up with fresh gas. Hope to find the time for that soon.

Sounds like a good plan. Be sure to keep us all posted on the progress/road blocks! Cheers.

 

[Slow Left]

Oh, just as a comparison, below is a schematic of the vac routings/components left after a typical (I believe it is a Jim C. sanctioned) stock carb desmog:

 

[Timmerz]

Just to clarify the electrical wiring for the carb...

Am I correct that the black wire on this connector should go to the carb electrical connector (the idle solenoid i believe it is)... and that the green wire should be grounded to the body or carb?

Would this make the proper carb electrical connections and perform the "green wire mod" in one go?

Thanks in advance for the info. This is also my first post here after months of lurking. Y'all are a swell bunch!

Tim

 

[gregnash]

Is that the harness side or ICS/carb side we are looking at? Easiest way to figure out is that you want 12v going to the carb, take a test light and with the key in the On (not engine running) position check to see which connection has power. Then find corresponding connection on the ICS/carb side and ground the other.

 

[Timmerz]

Hey, thanks for the info! The pic is of the carb side. I wasn't sure if the engine needed to be running for me to see the 12v. And I can't run the engine without the carb

Other threads talk about a white wire involved in the "green wire mod" but perhaps color coding is inconsistent? Just want to make sure this is the actual "green wire mod" i.e. will disable my emissions computer.


Tim

 

[gregnash]

Actually for the most part color coding is consistent... It is called the "Green Wire Mod" because you are actually modding the white/black stripe wire on the ICS side. I just recently did this so I can post a pic if necessary.

Basically the ICS controls your idle fuel once the engine is running. This can be bypassed by pulling the choke as this then tells the system to start pulling fuel into the carb. As @Output Shaft said in another thread, once the engine is warm the system no longer uses the "choke" to create a fuel rich environment it basically then acts as a throttle positioner (this choke breaker circuit is what does this).

When the ICS is functioning, there is a VERY audible CLICK when it is grounded and has power. I found this out first hand and was very VERY surprised (along with my buddy) at how much sound it really made when I was testing it.

Anyways, test light to the HARNESS side with key in ON (not run) position to see which side is 12v. Build yourself two little jumper wires so you can jump 12v from the harness to the ICS and from the ICS to the carb body. Then try turning the truck over and see if it will idle. If it does this means that your ground on your HARNESS side is bad (common problem) and thus you can move forward with permanently grounding the ICS to the carb body ("Green Wire Mod"). If that does not work then you have something else going on like the ICS is not functioning properly or the Emissions Computer (in the drivers kick panel) is dead and thus you are not getting 12v to the ICS (or not enough voltage possibly).

This was how I tested and confirmed that my ICS was dead AND I had a bad ground from the harness side.

 

[Timmerz]

@gregnash thank you!

I checked the connector and the black/white wire is carrying 12v with the key to "on".

I'm a bit confused though. If it wasn't clear, I'm installing a Trollhole carb which only has one wire on the connector. I assume it takes the 12v, and the solenoid gets its ground from the carb body.

But looking here (emissions manual):

It would seem that the vacuum switch is necessary for the decel cut system to work, and there is no port for it on the Trollhole...

So... is the idle solenoid just getting a constant 12v from the old carb connector and that's that? (and i should remove the vacuum switch entirely?) Not sure how this would work... but then again I'm not sure about a lot of things with this truck!

Again, thanks for your help!

Tim

 

[gregnash]

So the emissions manual really doesn't apply to the Trolhole carb. If you have questions about your setup then I would suggest getting in contact with Marshall. My understanding though is that it does want the 12v and not necessarily the vacuum you are seeing as the Trolhole gets rid of a few questions.

 

[Beerfix]

Lets revive this thread, it seems like the most appropriate place to post this.

Just installed my THC this weekend, and got it running ok, seems to be running a bit rich, but I can probably sort that out.

Some background... This new-to-me 60 is a 1984, and is somewhat of a Frankenstein, no idea what year the engine is (haven't ran any numbers yet). Very hack desmog done by the PO, ran enough to drive it on the trailer, and that's about it.

I have (seemingly) correct electronic ignition system, early 2 bolt t-stat housing (with no provision for the installed oil cooler or temp controlled valves), early carb spacer with the angled up port (removed, straightened, and re-epoxied back in to clear the primary shaft/AC idle up linkage). I haven't figured out which intake manifold I have, but it's pre-egr. Please chime in if anyone recognizes it.

I have stock air filter housing, currently with all ports plugged except the dizzy vent going to the very bottom angled port for lack of a better place, also I apparently need a spacer to take up the gap between the carb and filter housing (I'll sort that out). The only vacuum controlled valve I have is the one I found in the box of crap in the back. One vacuum solenoid valve on the driver fender unplugged electrically, and no vac lines to it (assuming for the AC idle up, AC is dead flat with no belt installed, I'll address all the AC stuff later).

So now that I went through all that, and if you are still reading... Lets talk Evap/charcoal can. No carb breather on the THC, so I re-purposed the hard line on the firewall to get PCV around the engine to the newly straightened port on the carb spacer/base plate. I also removed a tee that was plugged off with a bolt just above the PCV valve. Nice and clean for PCV. Reading posts and comments from JimC in threads that I cant quote, I removed the related solenoid valve, capped the carb vent port on the evap can (which opened up the conveniently located hardline mentioned above) , and swapped the tank and purge hoses on aforementioned charcoal can. So now I have the original purge line (now hooked to the tank port) through a hard line on the firewall (original configuration), to an open port dangling on the drivers side. What do I do with this??

And lastly, anyone know what the taped off wire is? It's in the same harness as the idle control bundle.

I'll make my first attempt at posting pics below.

 

[gregnash]

@Beerfix Did you happen to read through the desmog document to see what all is going on. While it does not directly apply to the THC it will help with some of the answers.

Not completely clear on delineation of different engines but I did not think that any of the 60s came with engines that had the 2-bolt t-stat and no oil cooler or EGR stuff. But guys like @OSS @Spike Strip @FJ40Jim @orangefj45 and the like will be able to answer that more completely. Also, @Trollhole may be able to help.

 

[mwebfj60]

That wire looks to be for the carb fan temp sensor

 

[Beerfix]

@gregnash I did read through many threads and the desmog doc, until my eyes are bleeding. That helped me work through almost every obstacle, especially since I'm starting pretty much with nothing, no lines, hacked hoses, missing pieces. Most of the evap system was in a box in the back. I'm kinda surprised I was able to piece it back together as easily as I did. Without this forum, and the contributors, this would have taken me an awful long time to sort all this out.

The other thing I failed to mention on the mystery intake manifold. Besides the carb needing the spacer, the carb also doesn't line up with the air filter housing properly. I read about that issue in one of the manifold threads I found. It's likely not even a 2F manifold... Should be a easy job relocating the filter housing a bit to make it fit though, like some others have had to do.

@mwebfj60, I bet you're right about that, thank you!

 

[gregnash]

@Beerfix I do see the TEQ symbol on the intake so your intake is definitely OEM Toyota, just what version of the 2F is the thing that needs to be discovered. Also, looking at the pic it seems you may have headers as well. This may create issues when warming up as there is a heat riser that is on the stock manifold that helps to heat things up during idling. Not a major issues but something to be aware of as you are attempting to piece things back together. Did it originally have a Weber carb on it by chance (before you purchased the THC)?

 

[OSS]

So now I have the original purge line (now hooked to the tank port) through a hard line on the firewall (original configuration), to an open port dangling on the drivers side. What do I do with this??

Let it dangle.

The charcoal canister in its original design was both a fancy end point for the gas tank venting AND a container to collect those gasoline fumes to be burned later on when the engine was running to help diminish emissions.

The second part of that equation is no longer important with your desmogged THC engine. That being so, you can remove the real purge hose (that routes behind the engine) from the charcoal canister pipe (which you've swapped to the TANK pipe) and just cap the TANK pipe on the charcoal canister. It's not doing anything anyway now with its check valve preventing flow.

 

[Beerfix]

Let it dangle.

The charcoal canister in its original design was both a fancy end point for the gas tank venting AND a container to collect those gasoline fumes to be burned later on when the engine was running to help diminish emissions.

The second part of that equation is no longer important with your desmogged THC engine. That being so, you can remove the real purge hose (that routes behind the engine) from the charcoal canister pipe (which you've swapped to the TANK pipe) and just cap the TANK pipe on the charcoal canister. It's not doing anything anyway now with its check valve preventing flow.

Thank you. That clears that up for me. Now I have an extra hard line to play with, Maybe I'll use it for vacuum advance, and no hoses crossing the engine at all!!

 

[Beerfix]

@Beerfix I do see the TEQ symbol on the intake so your intake is definitely OEM Toyota, just what version of the 2F is the thing that needs to be discovered. Also, looking at the pic it seems you may have headers as well. This may create issues when warming up as there is a heat riser that is on the stock manifold that helps to heat things up during idling. Not a major issues but something to be aware of as you are attempting to piece things back together. Did it originally have a Weber carb on it by chance (before you purchased the THC)?

Yeah, no heat riser with the headers. I may make a plate, and do the heater hose thing if it becomes an issue. Its possible that the manifold is from something other than a 4.2L F engine... The carb that was on it seems to be an early Aisan, with a fuel return setup on the carb, I can post a pic later to see if anyone can identify it for future reference..

 

[gregnash]

Yeah, no heat riser with the headers. I may make a plate, and do the heater hose thing if it becomes an issue. Its possible that the manifold is from something other than a 4.2L F engine... The carb that was on it seems to be an early Aisan, with a fuel return setup on the carb, I can post a pic later to see if anyone can identify it for future reference..

Yeah please post some more pictures of your engine bay and different parts like the manifold, old carb, front of engine, etc. as that will help to identify.