TRE Replacement - What Have I Done Wrong? (1 Viewer)

[Gretsch]

Hi all. I discovered a very worn TRE on my '84. I was planning on replacing these when I did my knuckle rebuild but this thing was shut down bad IMO so I decided to go ahead and get the TRE's handled. Ordered a set from Cruiser Outfitters and installed them today. Went smooth. Steering wheel was straight when I started but after finishing this job I got in and the steering wheel is way off. Driving straight it looks like the truck is turning right pretty good. I was sure to count the threads on all the TREs before removing them and even them marked them just to make sure I had it right. If I look under the truck the pitman arm is pointed straight forward and the wheels look mostly straight but the steering wheel is totally off to the right. I also hear various periodic pops and clunks when turning. Does not happen all the time but its like something is loose. When replacing the TREs, I tightened the castle nuts until I got them good and tight by hand. Then I tightened them a bot more to align the cotter pin hole. Now the studs on the TRE's seem to 'seat' into the hole of say the knuckle steering arm. Is it possible I did not seat them properly causing them to move around creating popping noises? See photo below of one of the TREs installed:

This looks to me to be the way the old ones were installed so not sure they would be 'unseated'.

As for the steering wheel be off, it was off a bit before but the play in the original TRE may have compensated for the it a bit. Truck has always wandered a bit and has recently developed death wobble at around 35-45 MPH. After the TRE replacement no more wobble so that's good. But the steering wheel being so off makes me think I have messed up somewhere. If the pitman arm is pointed straight forward along with the wheels, should I just take the steering wheel off and center it? The PO fixed the horn somehow and maybe took steering wheel off? Not sure if that would be needed for the horn fix or not. Or should the pitman arm be pointed some other direction and I should adjust the TRE that connects to it to correct this. See phots below of what was done. If anyone can spot something wrong here I would appreciate you pointing it out.

Thanks in advance for all the help.

 

[OSS]

The replacement tie rod ends are not made by Toyota. Their dimension is different. They'll work, but you've got to start from scratch and align everything all over again.

 

[EscapeWagon62]

If your alignment good and pitman arm is centered you can simply loosen the bolts on your drag link and turn it until your wheel is centered
It’s important to make sure that the link is centered enough so you have full left/right articulation but minor moves won’t affect that too much.
A little spin on the drag link will re-center your wheel.
That being said it’s likely you need to re-do the alignment.

As for the popping, it’s possible that your tie rod end cap (not the castle nut) could use a little tightening. Remove the cotter pin and turn clockwise half a turn with a nickel or quarter and test.

Ps - do the tie rod end cap adjustment prior to doing the drag link adjust.

 

[Gretsch]

So merely counting threads on old and putting the new ones in the with the same thread count showing would not actually work at all then I guess. I was just trying to get things close and then get it aligned. Took to a shop and they hassled me about how aligning would not do anything because of worn tires, worn bearings blah blah blah. I told them to put it on the ground and let me have it back and left.

So in an attempt to align the steering wheel properly, where should the steering gear/pitman arm be with the steering wheel straight. Pointed straight ahead?

Also, I talked to the Cruiser Outfitter guys and one told me that the TREs are pre-greased so I did not grease them. After another round of talking with them, one of the other guys there clarified that the ones without zerks are pre-greased. The ones with them are not. So I'll hit those with some grease and see if that takes care of the popping/clunking.

 

[Gretsch]

As for the popping, it’s possible that your tie rod end cap (not the castle nut) could use a little tightening. Remove the cotter pin and turn clockwise half a turn with a nickel or quarter and test.

Ah OK I can check that. I posted just as you did here but I am going to try to get some grease in here to see if that handles the popping. But will keep the adjustment in mind. Thanks.

 

[CuCruiser]

Steering wheel alignment is trial and error. You can eyeball it but you won't know where it truly is until you drive it.
Align then adjust drag link till wheel is centered. Pitman will be where it will be.

 

[Gretsch]

I also want to clarify here. Getting the old TREs out required the use of a tie rod separator tool. They were original I believe and seemed pressed in it seems to the knuckle steering arm. The came loose with a huge bang. No way I could have gotten this done without that tool. The new ones do not seem to 'press in' the same. Is that the way 555 TREs work different from the OEM ones?

 

[Godwin]

Get a torque wrench to put the proper amount torque on the castle nuts, otherwise you're just guessing if you've tightened the nuts sufficiently. I think the torque is 67 ft-lbs, but get a FSM and check that.

You can do your own alignment by marking a spot on the tires and taking measurements. There are threads in this forum and the 80 series on how to do this. Once the alignment is set adjust the drag link to center your steering wheel.

 

[lovetoski]

I use a pipe wrench to turn the tie rod and drag link (loosen the clamp first).

 

[EscapeWagon62]

Ah OK I can check that. I posted just as you did here but I am going to try to get some grease in here to see if that handles the popping. But will keep the adjustment in mind. Thanks.

There are some threads on the end cap adjustments as well. Most rig owners find that tightening them a little more than stated spec (I believe spec is full tight minus 2 turns) works better. I have mine at full tight and back I g off 1 turn made my steering more predictable.
PS - you have to do both sides of the vehicle to roughly the same tightness. If not your wheel will be off again

 

[CuCruiser]

That sounds totally normal. There not pressed in. It's a tapered interface and that's what they do, get really tight.
555 is the best available I believe. Works just like OE.
Machine taper - Wikipedia

 

[NearJetties]

Paint the 555s before they rust....I made that mistake

 

[FJACS]

Tie rods ends are taper fit into the knuckle, once you tighten the new ones in properly, they will also require a puller or a blow to the knuckle to come back apart.

I don’t like to use a puller, especially a pickle fork on tre’s I want to reuse.

It doesn’t take much to throw the steering wheel off centre. Go one turn at a time and check progress.

 

[Gretsch]

Paint the 555s before they rust....I made that mistake

Yeah I painted them before I put them on. Kurt from CO mentioned it to me when I ordered them which was good cause I would have done same as you.

 

[Gretsch]

I think I may have figured some of this out.

First I greased the two greasable TRE's. Took it for a quick ride and seems to have fixed the poping noises I heard before. Time will tell though.

I read on one of these threads somewhere there was not an FSM mandated torque spec for the castle nuts. So I just went hand tight. If that is incorrect I'll take a look and see what I can find.

I had such a time trying to find a shop to align this thing today that I gave up and tried to look at things again myself. I looked at the geometry and it seems that the driver side wheel front is kicked out when the passenger side wheel looks straight. See photos below:

Passenger side (front of truck to right):

And now driver side (front of truck to left):

So to me that would mean I have the relay rod adjusted wrong. Does this sound accurate? If I shifted the thing over to the left (if looking at the front of truck) by taking in length on the rod left end and taking in the driver side TRE a bit to even it out. So an alignment shop could prolly just spin that rod and get this thing back in alignment I think without much fuss. I started to adjust it myself but without going through the whole alignment process I would just be guessing at whats right. Looking at the wheels by eye is hardly good enough to tell whats going on. I would prefer to have an alignment shop mess with it to make sure its correct.

Thanks for all the replies. I was trying to take this thing on its first camping trip and the TRE thing came up last minute. I panicked a bit with all the sudden changes because of running out of time to handle. Leaving in the morning so pretty much out of time. Cruiser will sit sidelined again until I can get back. Any clarity on the relay rod idea I would appreciate. Thanks.

 

[Thornton Melon]

Certainly there would be a place closer to you but I’ve brought mine here for a few things. Alignment being one and they have always delivered.
Just in case you feel it’s worth it.
I know alignment on these isn’t complicated, but with the machine you know it’s right.

Muffler King
11118 Garland Rd, Dallas, TX 75218
(214) 328-4669
Google Maps

 

[CuCruiser]

So the threads are left and right threaded, meaning the rods get longer or shorter by turning the center bar, like a turnbuckle. Alignment is just toe in. Caster and camber is set by other parts of the axle.

So it is easy to do. Basically front of tires is closer together than back of tires. IIRC by about 2 mm.

\---0-----/

Lots of good advice here on how to do it.
Keep in mind this is stone age tech. You do not need an alignment shop to get it rolling. For piece of mind, sure maybe.

Then- center the wheel by the same process. forget about the wheel till the toe in is set.

Hope that helps. It takes a little visualization untill you get the hang of it.

 

[DFXR]

There is good DIY alignment info here:

do your own alignment

Read thru the different suggestions - I have had good results removing the wheels and clamping angle to the discs (will make sense after you read thru). Much easier if you're flying solo in the garage.

Just to confirm you're on the right track:

I replaced my TREs with the same 555 brand from Kurt. Yes, they need grease, and paint. The old ones required a puller and came loose with a mighty pop.

I turned the end cap adjusters all the way in, then backed out 1 full turn. Good to use a new cotter pin.

It took me a lot of back and forth to get the steering wheel dead straight after all this. The roads here have quite a crown on them and that sure does not help. A pipe wrench is very handy for this adjustment.

 

[morganism]

from the faq

do your own alignment

 

[Gretsch]

So the threads are left and right threaded, meaning the rods get longer or shorter by turning the center bar, like a turnbuckle. Alignment is just toe in. Caster and camber is set by other parts of the axle.

Thanks for this. I can spin the relay rod to make this adjustment. But since I seem to have one wheel set correctly (passenger side) and one wheel toed out (driver side), if I use the relay rod to adjust them won't I just be adjusting an already bad setup. Seems like I need to fix the side that's toed out first and then I can dial it in at that point to apply the same adjustment to both sides equally at the same time by turning the relay rod. Hopefully that makes sense. Seems like I need to start over here. I was thinking I would remove the driver side TRE from the knuckle, then spin the relay rod to get it to shift over towards the passenger side, then pull the driver side TRE on the rod in some to get roughly the same toe setting on both sides. Then adjust from there. Or will simply spinning the relay rod in the correct direction will get both sides eventually the same. There isn't, incidentally, a lot of thread left to adjust with as it sits on either side. Maybe three/four threads showing.

The mistake I made here was replacing one TRE at a time assuming the TREs from CO were the same dimensions as OEM. I did not want to get confused about where each of these goes. But by replacing one at a time, I think I was adding length to everything pushing stuff outward because the dimensions of each TRE is maybe a little longer.

So since everything is tightened down, will I need to use this separator tool to get things apart if I need to make major adjustments. Or will these parts come apart relatively easily. I would hate to use that tool to break thing apart for risk of tearing something up. And an alignment shop will just use the rod adjustment to 'fix' things right? They wouldn't take stuff apart to reset it would they? If they could do all that then I would just assume have them try to get stuff aligned using a computer. I know it seems ridiculous to have a computer set alignment on a truck as far from cutting edge as could be, but what can I say: I am a riddle.

Just to confirm you're on the right track:

I replaced my TREs with the same 555 brand from Kurt. Yes, they need grease, and paint. The old ones required a puller and came loose with a mighty pop.

I turned the end cap adjusters all the way in, then backed out 1 full turn. Good to use a new cotter pin.

It took me a lot of back and forth to get the steering wheel dead straight after all this.

Thanks for this. At least I know I was not totally off base here. Just need to mess with it. I wish I had not cinched everything down however cause it was a beat down trying to break this 30 year old stuff free. That pop is pretty unmistakable.

Thanks all for the replies here.