- Thread starter
- #101
Well, there's at least one part of this project that's working...
Pictured: The electronses.
Pictured: The electronses.
Trailers and controllers and wirings and stuffs... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sundowner
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #102
Slight update. I think the last unplanned part of this project is going to be a battery cable upgrade, which is spelled thusly: upgrayedd. The two D's are for a "double dose" of conductivity. The grounds are pretty easy: the smaller of the two is something like an 8AWG, and it's only about seven inches long...and the larger/longer looks like it's something between 6 and 4AWG - so...5..? - so that's still pretty manageable. The hot leads, though...those are 2/0, according to the caliper: there's a small section of exposed copper on that main 24V lead, and it's exactly .365". The insulation is .4-something, and the connector between the two batteries measures at that size as well. I have a 2/0 crimping die so I may just buy a short roll of 2/0 and a few heavy ring terminals and get that handled after the rest is buttoned up. I don't see a reason to avoid upsizing the grounds while I'm there...so maybe it'll be 2/0 all around. Hmmm... 
- Thread starter
- #103
Slight Update, again: it's a good thing that I decided to replace the batteries... because one of them was slightly cracked and leaking. I thought it was just off-gassing, but no...a few drops of acid were hanging out on the side of the case, right at the top, directly under the hold-down. So, now I get to clean and sand and repaint the hold-down clamps.
- Thread starter
- #104
Pictured: Never, ever, EVER trust without verification.
This happened because I asked for a replacement bulb for my switch lights...and all Batteries+ had was an LED. I specifically told them that this was a 24V bulb, to which they said "Most of these LEDs are rated from anywhere between 3 and 32 volts; this should be fine*..."
* - a word which here means "Not appropriate for this application at all, in that you can expect it to melt within sixty seconds of turning it on, and possibly catch things on fire."
I think I'll be taking this back and explaining that when all of the magic smoke comes out, bulb no worky any more. And I should have expected that, to be honest...but that's what I get for trusting people. Kind of makes me want to take the batteries back as well.
This happened because I asked for a replacement bulb for my switch lights...and all Batteries+ had was an LED. I specifically told them that this was a 24V bulb, to which they said "Most of these LEDs are rated from anywhere between 3 and 32 volts; this should be fine*..."
* - a word which here means "Not appropriate for this application at all, in that you can expect it to melt within sixty seconds of turning it on, and possibly catch things on fire."
I think I'll be taking this back and explaining that when all of the magic smoke comes out, bulb no worky any more. And I should have expected that, to be honest...but that's what I get for trusting people. Kind of makes me want to take the batteries back as well.
- Thread starter
- #105
This is unrelated...
Pictured: ...but it's very tempting.
Who knew that a baby Anderson connector was small enough to fit into a switch recess?? Answer: probably everyone except me.
Okay, on the relevant topics: the connectors should be here tomorrow, but the wire hasn't even shipped yet. I may just have to make up a temporary harness in order to get things up and going - and to make sure that what I'm building is actually, you know, working...but it's still a step in the right direction. And I got the batteries installed, and they work...so that's good, too. Still pissed about the bulb, though.
Pictured: ...but it's very tempting.
Who knew that a baby Anderson connector was small enough to fit into a switch recess?? Answer: probably everyone except me.
Okay, on the relevant topics: the connectors should be here tomorrow, but the wire hasn't even shipped yet. I may just have to make up a temporary harness in order to get things up and going - and to make sure that what I'm building is actually, you know, working...but it's still a step in the right direction. And I got the batteries installed, and they work...so that's good, too. Still pissed about the bulb, though.
- Thread starter
- #106
So...more stuffs arrived.
Pictured: Le circuit de rupture.
This thing is surprisingly tiny. I mean, I read the specs on it before I ordered, but I'm still a bit surprised at the overall lack of mass. Should be pretty easy to hide...and the pair of weather-protecting boots definitely give me options. Part of me wants to pop it on a convenient battery tray strut, but the rest of me wants it somewhere more accessible...and also has no idea of where that might actually be. Also...
Pictured: I kept them.
Can't beat a drop-in, perfect fit; I had wondered if the slight differences in these cases would pose any issues, but they seem to fit just fine...and - surprisingly - I don't mind the vibrant blue top. The old and busted terminal clamps kind of detract, but I have a way of fixing that.
Pictured: Two ways, actually.
I picked up two sets each of military and marine terminals...mostly because I wasn't entirely sure which ones I would need at the time I was ordering them. Moving to an in-line circuit breaker helped lessen the need for certain features, and going with a dual-post battery gave me more options for connections...so, I'm actually still not sure which ones I'll end up using. Could be the marine set, could be the military set, could be a mix-and-match, or some other strange combination...and I hope it's not one of the latter options, because I'd like to return the ones that I don't use. Either way, this allows me to make cables with basic ring terminals, and those are easy and solid. Hopefully I'll be able to figure those out at some point in the near future.
I'm taking the evening off to figure out some of my next steps and to organize my tiny garage; it looks like Godzilla tried and failed to build an interocitor in there, and then threw a tantrum.
Pictured: Le circuit de rupture.
This thing is surprisingly tiny. I mean, I read the specs on it before I ordered, but I'm still a bit surprised at the overall lack of mass. Should be pretty easy to hide...and the pair of weather-protecting boots definitely give me options. Part of me wants to pop it on a convenient battery tray strut, but the rest of me wants it somewhere more accessible...and also has no idea of where that might actually be. Also...
Pictured: I kept them.
Can't beat a drop-in, perfect fit; I had wondered if the slight differences in these cases would pose any issues, but they seem to fit just fine...and - surprisingly - I don't mind the vibrant blue top. The old and busted terminal clamps kind of detract, but I have a way of fixing that.
Pictured: Two ways, actually.
I picked up two sets each of military and marine terminals...mostly because I wasn't entirely sure which ones I would need at the time I was ordering them. Moving to an in-line circuit breaker helped lessen the need for certain features, and going with a dual-post battery gave me more options for connections...so, I'm actually still not sure which ones I'll end up using. Could be the marine set, could be the military set, could be a mix-and-match, or some other strange combination...and I hope it's not one of the latter options, because I'd like to return the ones that I don't use. Either way, this allows me to make cables with basic ring terminals, and those are easy and solid. Hopefully I'll be able to figure those out at some point in the near future.
I'm taking the evening off to figure out some of my next steps and to organize my tiny garage; it looks like Godzilla tried and failed to build an interocitor in there, and then threw a tantrum.
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- Thread starter
- #107
Pictured: Finally.
It was definitely worth the wait to have this little thing just click right into place. Wiring should be here tomorrow, so I may have a working harness by tomorrow evening.
In unrelated news: I'm going to have to figure out the battery cable situation... because what I measured and what I'm told fits that measurement are not coherent. More specifically: the .365"-diameter positive lead that I measured - and that's exactly the size one would expect for 2/0AWG - is a lot smaller than the interior of the 2/0 terminals that I'm assured will fit it. Like, my crimper has a 2/0 die, and that looks like it will work with the heavy-wall 2/0 ring terminals...but the bore size of that terminal is much larger than .365". So, I'm yet again a bit confused.
Oh, and I'm also going to have to modify my battery hold-downs: they don't even engage the tops of these X2 batteries correctly. Pics in a moment.
It was definitely worth the wait to have this little thing just click right into place. Wiring should be here tomorrow, so I may have a working harness by tomorrow evening.
In unrelated news: I'm going to have to figure out the battery cable situation... because what I measured and what I'm told fits that measurement are not coherent. More specifically: the .365"-diameter positive lead that I measured - and that's exactly the size one would expect for 2/0AWG - is a lot smaller than the interior of the 2/0 terminals that I'm assured will fit it. Like, my crimper has a 2/0 die, and that looks like it will work with the heavy-wall 2/0 ring terminals...but the bore size of that terminal is much larger than .365". So, I'm yet again a bit confused.
Oh, and I'm also going to have to modify my battery hold-downs: they don't even engage the tops of these X2 batteries correctly. Pics in a moment.
- Thread starter
- #108
Pictured: Things that don't fit.
Some of this is a bit easier to solve than the rest. I can modify the exterior portions of the mount somewhat easily, and just maintain the spacer that I installed by using a longer screw...but the inboard mounts... that looks more like a cut-and-weld. Hmmm...
Some of this is a bit easier to solve than the rest. I can modify the exterior portions of the mount somewhat easily, and just maintain the spacer that I installed by using a longer screw...but the inboard mounts... that looks more like a cut-and-weld. Hmmm...
- Thread starter
- #109
And one last thing...
Pictured: I'm 17% sure that this is pretty close to .365"...
You can actually see the portion of exposed copper that I measured on the positive lead; it's just to the right of the wire clip that's directly underneath the caliper. According to the charts, that's 2/0...but the 2/0 ring terminal recesses just don't look like the correct size. Dafuq is going on?
Pictured: I'm 17% sure that this is pretty close to .365"...
You can actually see the portion of exposed copper that I measured on the positive lead; it's just to the right of the wire clip that's directly underneath the caliper. According to the charts, that's 2/0...but the 2/0 ring terminal recesses just don't look like the correct size. Dafuq is going on?
In my experience it is pretty common for the uncrimped lug to be significantly larger than the cable it is meant to fit. For most sizes of cable 6 awg and above using a lug one size smaller fits snugly and still makes a good connection. In your case I would recommend trying a 1/o lug and see how it feels. The cross sectional area of the two sizes of lug should be basically the same, so you won’t really be sacrificing any conductivity.
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- #111
That's very good info, and it basically correlates with what I was seeing; the 1/0 lug looked...well, correct. The 2/0...just far too massive. I'll look for 1/0 lugs tomorrow and look for a decent deal on 2/0 cable. Thank you!
Custom Cable and Wire | Marine Grade Cable and Wire Products
Custom Cable and Wire is home to custom made battery cables and the best quality US made UL 1426 marine grade wire products for your boat, rv, trailer, auto, solar, atv needs. Next day shipping available on most orders.s
www.customcableusa.com
Great prices, products, service and free shipping.
- Thread starter
- #113
Custom Cable and Wire | Marine Grade Cable and Wire Products
Custom Cable and Wire is home to custom made battery cables and the best quality US made UL 1426 marine grade wire products for your boat, rv, trailer, auto, solar, atv needs. Next day shipping available on most orders.s
Great prices, products, service and free shipping.
< Karen Mode: Engaged >
WHAT??? You got free shipping? I didn't get free shipping! I was just checking that site, and it was $8.99 flat-rate shipping for me!! That's is COMPLETELY unfair!! I demand free shipping...and I want my order for free as well!! I WANT TO SPEAK WITH A MANAGER!!!!
< Karen Mode: Disabled. Normality restored. >
Looks like a decent price on by-the-foot cable; definitely cheaper than the marine chandlers in the area. Locally, 2/0 is anywhere from $9 to $11 per foot, and that's before tax. I didn't see an option for a roll, though; I might have missed it so I'll have to check again. I think the battery cables will take about thirteen feet in total - I suppose I could pop them loose and measure, in order to get it exact - and there's usually a pretty decent price break at the 25' mark...so that's kind of tempting. I'm not sure what use I have for the extra footage, though; a winch would be a good use of some extra 2/0, but the only spare ones that I have are 12V models and they're 3,000 miles away...and that's makes them a first-order nightmare to install. I guess I can always store some extra power cable if I get a roll of it; it's probably not going to get any cheaper in the future.
Oh, on-topic: the wire should be here by mid-afternoon, according to FedEx...so I guess I'll work on the battery hold-downs or the shop until then. Or figure out my wire routing in the back on the rig; still haven't done that. I know where it's going to exit, but that's about all.
Anyone have an opinion on plug weld cutters?
jblueridge
SILVER Star
hougen These?
Bummer on the shipping, that is a recent change. I've been getting wire and HD lugs from there for over 10 years, most recently a few months ago and shipping has always been free.
Website showing free domestic USPS shipping on orders $35 or more. Maybe you are not in the US, poor assumption on my part if you are not.
Shipping | Custom Cable and Wire
Free Domestic Shipping After $35 Free Shipping on All Domestic Orders Over $35 International Shipping USPS Priority International and First Class International 24 Hr Turn Around M-F We Fulfil Orders As Quickly As Possible Expect 2-3 Day Shipping Once Shipped No Weekend Fulfilment All Weekend...
www.customcableusa.com
- Thread starter
- #117
That is a very nice-looking tool.
Yeah, it gave me a $9 flat rate based on my location...which isn't anything to complain about at all. And I'm in the US, so I don't know what's up...but $9 on a $150 order of heavy materials is still pretty fair, regardless.
- Thread starter
- #118
Alright, time's up; let's do this.
Pictured: LEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOY- oh, wait... that's already been done.
Connectors are here, correct-ish wire is here, and there's even some nice tape and a few other odds and ends; tomorrow should be a productive day.
Also, the careful eye will clearly discern the miscellany of battery cable atop the worktable/file cabinet. There's some 4, a bit of 2, some 1, possibly a piece of 1/0...but no 2/0. This is because I realized that I had never even heard of - much less seen - a factory battery cable sized at 2/0AWG. Like, I know some people - not by choice - that run ridiculous 16,000-lb. winches on their half-ton brodozers, and they don't even have 2/0 cables running to anything...and let me assure you: these boys measure everything according to the size of their proxy-cables. So I said to myself "Self, you're missing something...something obvious"...and lo, it turns out that I was.
Remember, like, way back in the day when I said that I measured the exposed copper on the hot lead and it was .365" and that was the size of 2/0 wire and blah blah blah and stuff?
Warning: if you're drinking anything right now, swallow and don't refill your mouth.
Well, turns out that I was correct: .365" is, in fact, the size of 2/0AWG wire...
...
...
...2/0AWG solid wire. I've been using the wrong table the entire time. Stranded cable is significantly larger than solid wire, and the overall diameter of any given stranded wire gauge varies significantly in accord with its stranding count and twist. In the last three hours, I feel that I've learned a massive amount about cable that I never really knew that I really needed to know.
Feel free to resume your beverages at your leisure.
As best I can figure, I'm not in any real trouble; everything I've run has been semi-oversized per the lengths and charts involved, but I've not actually made any critical errors...nor would I have done so, had I not caught myself. The worst that would happen is that I would have given myself a set of battery cables that could power a small, developing nation; that would have cost quite a bit. In reality, all I need to run is 2AWG; that's approximately the size of the stock stuff. I may elect to upsize that to 1AWG because there are more 1AWG terminals available locally, and it wouldn't be a huge increase over the price of the 2...but high-quality 2 would definitely work, as best I can tell.
Yeah, so, tl;dr - I'm an idiot.
Also, this is kind of cool...
Pictured: 28.1? Is that...is that okay? I hope it's okay.
The previous reading was 27.5V at idle, so I've picked up .6V from changing the batteries. I'm just going to assume that it's fine until someone tells me it isn't. Hopefully the combined batteries will be happy at that voltage.
Pictured: LEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOY- oh, wait... that's already been done.
Connectors are here, correct-ish wire is here, and there's even some nice tape and a few other odds and ends; tomorrow should be a productive day.
Also, the careful eye will clearly discern the miscellany of battery cable atop the worktable/file cabinet. There's some 4, a bit of 2, some 1, possibly a piece of 1/0...but no 2/0. This is because I realized that I had never even heard of - much less seen - a factory battery cable sized at 2/0AWG. Like, I know some people - not by choice - that run ridiculous 16,000-lb. winches on their half-ton brodozers, and they don't even have 2/0 cables running to anything...and let me assure you: these boys measure everything according to the size of their proxy-cables. So I said to myself "Self, you're missing something...something obvious"...and lo, it turns out that I was.
Remember, like, way back in the day when I said that I measured the exposed copper on the hot lead and it was .365" and that was the size of 2/0 wire and blah blah blah and stuff?
Warning: if you're drinking anything right now, swallow and don't refill your mouth.
Well, turns out that I was correct: .365" is, in fact, the size of 2/0AWG wire...
...
...
...2/0AWG solid wire. I've been using the wrong table the entire time. Stranded cable is significantly larger than solid wire, and the overall diameter of any given stranded wire gauge varies significantly in accord with its stranding count and twist. In the last three hours, I feel that I've learned a massive amount about cable that I never really knew that I really needed to know.
Feel free to resume your beverages at your leisure.
As best I can figure, I'm not in any real trouble; everything I've run has been semi-oversized per the lengths and charts involved, but I've not actually made any critical errors...nor would I have done so, had I not caught myself. The worst that would happen is that I would have given myself a set of battery cables that could power a small, developing nation; that would have cost quite a bit. In reality, all I need to run is 2AWG; that's approximately the size of the stock stuff. I may elect to upsize that to 1AWG because there are more 1AWG terminals available locally, and it wouldn't be a huge increase over the price of the 2...but high-quality 2 would definitely work, as best I can tell.
Yeah, so, tl;dr - I'm an idiot.
Also, this is kind of cool...
Pictured: 28.1? Is that...is that okay? I hope it's okay.
The previous reading was 27.5V at idle, so I've picked up .6V from changing the batteries. I'm just going to assume that it's fine until someone tells me it isn't. Hopefully the combined batteries will be happy at that voltage.
I was wondering why you were going to run 2/0, that is might big cable. Slightly oversized is always beneficial to reduce voltage drop, but that would have indeed been excessive. I replaced my OEM battery/start cables with 2 AWG, and it is visibly larger than OEM. Looking at voltage drop tables for 24v, it should be MORE than adequate for the charging/starting circuit, especially if good, tinned, marine wire is used. You'll want to upgrade your "bonding" wires and clean all the body, chassis ground points as well.
Enjoy the wiring fun!
- Thread starter
- #120
Well, I made progress, but there's a problem: I went to connect the relay block to the input paths from the taillights, and popped the running light fuse...so, something is wired wrong, somewhere. I forgot that I had the lights on when I made that connection, but I think there's an issue, regardless. I did a quick check of the wires on the back of the block and everything looks correct, and nothing else shorted...but that momentary arc-flash was not what I wanted to see today.
Assuming that the circuit being live didn't cause the problem: I'm pretty sure that whatever is wrong is in the relay block itself, because everything was working correctly until that last connection was made to bring it online. So, thinking logically...either the inputs for the running lights are wrong, or the ground paths are wrong.
Edit: but why did it pop the fuse in the first place? Could I have gotten my grounds mixed up..?
Assuming that the circuit being live didn't cause the problem: I'm pretty sure that whatever is wrong is in the relay block itself, because everything was working correctly until that last connection was made to bring it online. So, thinking logically...either the inputs for the running lights are wrong, or the ground paths are wrong.
Edit: but why did it pop the fuse in the first place? Could I have gotten my grounds mixed up..?
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