Trail Gear gears?

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bkg said:
That's incredibly poor and innacurate information. 5.29's are plenty strong if setup properly - I've run them in 3 vehicles residing behind crawlers w/o a problem.
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this is the hardcore section, not the DD hang-out. so if you're gonna point fingers at me for spewing misinformation then please make sure that you do not take my statement out of context.

what is the tooth count on a set of 5.29s? 7, maybe 8 teeth on a pinion. so how much tooth contact does that offer? you do the math.....:banana:
 
Isotel said:
anyone else have some input on this? ive always read that R&P's get weaker the deeper the gearing due to the pinion getting smaller! most of the hard core Yota guys run 4.11's because of the strength issues with lower gear sets

Id LOVE some 5.29's for my rig, but have yet to do it due to cost, and the strength issues.. i dont want to drop $1000 on gears to break them on the trail, and end up back at 4.10's

BKG,
Looks like your Runner has a 3.Slow with 35's - you have to remember that in this Section of Mud Healthy V8's and 40" Tires are the norm.

:popcorn:
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Yes you are correct putting 5.29's in is making you pinion smaller there for weaker.

If I didn't drive my cruiser on the road I would run 3.70's for the extra strength:banana:


I wheeled with a mini that had hp 5.29 gears and a hybrid axles with 44 outers. Th first trip out he put the arb in a snapped the pinion, He did it two more times and he had enough so a D 60 went into its place.
 
orangefj45 said:
this is the hardcore section, not the DD hang-out. so if you're gonna point fingers at me for spewing misinformation then please make sure that you do not take my statement out of context.

what is the tooth count on a set of 5.29s? 7, maybe 8 teeth on a pinion. so how much tooth contact does that offer? you do the math.....:banana:
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There is more to strength than pinion tooth count. Contact surface is just as important, like you mention, but setup (and brand) is important also. I've seen more 4.10's go than 5.29's. I've also seen more 4.88's go than 5.29's - both of which were in street and mildly wheeled rigs.

Sure - if you throw a healthy V8, heavy right foot, low gears and 40+ tires at a Toy axle, you're going to have problems, regardless of the ratio, but a blank statement that 5.29's are weak is inherently inaccurate.
 
I think it comes down to driving style that's what I said in my first post.
 
Try Machinewave...Great service and prices. Insist on Precision or other high qualty gear. No name/off brand is not the right answer for such a critical component.

:beer:
 
The harder the part is to change the more you want to make sure you dont skimp out on a cheap part... Pay the extra for quality parts from wherever and forget about it....

My stand on TG is well known and documented... No need to stir up the flys beating the rotting corpse...


FWIW I run coarse spline thirds (4:11) in my cruiser and dont have a problem with them unless I stick the front and try to drive through... Axle wrap is my problem, linking the front will take care of that...

Chris:cool:
 
DHONDAGOD said:
Axle wrap is one of my problems, linking the front will take care of that...

Chris:cool:
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Fixed it for ya Chris :flipoff2: Some of that depends on SOA or SUA too....

I understand the need to save money everywhere you can but that 75 or 100 bucks won't mean diddly when your busted up in the middle of a trail beggin' for complete diff. just to get back to camp. Don't go cheap on gears, axles, or safety stuff....

Just my 2 cents.... keep the change ;)
 
bkg said:
I've seen more 4.10's go than 5.29's. I've also seen more 4.88's go than 5.29's - both of which were in street and mildly wheeled rigs.
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we all have. but that's largely due to the fact that there are 100 times more rigs out there with 4.11s than 5.29s. most of those 411s have tons and tons of miles on them, chances are the pinion nut on more than a few has loosened over time so it's a failure waiting to happen. on top of that, most of the guys running the 411s are people who can't afford to put better/lower gears in their rigs. so when they need a new set of gears, they buy a "good used" third and off they go. chances are they're younger drivers with either less experience and/or a heavier foot........

on the other hand, most vehicles with 488s or 529s are going to have a lot less miles on the gears and chances are, the gears were set up by a professional so there's less chance of failure.

what it all boils down to is that in theory and in practice, if you take a set of 4.11s, a set of 4.56s, a set of 4.88s and a set of 5.29s, then the lowest gear set which also has the smallest pinion tooth count and therefore the smallest amount of tooth contact, will be the weakest.

to simplify all that: 5.29s are the weakest gears out there for toyota applications. bar none.

the original post never mentioned if the gear set in question, reverse cut 5.29s, were going to be run in the front or rear or both. so my reply about the reverse cut gears was still accurate. if you run them in the rear, you're asking for trouble. i don't think the front will do much better.
 
running thru mud like that does not put that much strain on the gears since the tires continuously turn at the same rate. abrupt axle/wheel speed chages are what kills gear sets.
 
agent orange said:
I just ordered some 4.88 sierra gears from cruiser outfitters which were a good 75 dollars cheaper than almost everyone else, and i was asking myself the same questions. The response i got from kurt was volume and lack of name brand associated costs. It very well could be that because trail gear seems to have a high volume/low cost sales style that that could be a big part of the reduced cost.

-Matt
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I can't speak for Trail Gear (as I don't speak to Trail Gear ;)), but my costs are proportional to our sales... the more we sell the cheaper we get them. We have been with the same differential wholesaler for nearly 15? years, nothings changing around here, and definately not bringing in Chinese gears.

65swb45 said:
Which begs the question of where BOTH of them buy their gears? If they're both Chinese, there may even be a connection. How deep do you really want to dig?
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Keep digging Mark, you know where my allegience stands! I'm offended you thought otherwise ;) That and you havn't replied to my PM on PBB yet either :flipoff2:. While I don't have an issue with Chinese goods as a whole, some are made to higher standards than US specs stuff, its all relative. In the case of gears, I havn't put my hands on a set of TG ones so I can't comment.

Isotel said:
anyone else have some input on this? ive always read that R&P's get weaker the deeper the gearing due to the pinion getting smaller! most of the hard core Yota guys run 4.11's because of the strength issues with lower gear sets
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From an engineering standpoint, the higher the gear (numerically), the weaker it gets to some point. The number of teeth on the head decrease, simple fact. BUT, it is VERY important to note where MOST Landcruiser Ring and Pinions fail... at the pinion flange, more specifically where the pinion splines terminate, hence why course spline designs are inherintly (sp?) are weaker. We arn't talking about 8" 3rds here (ring gear deflection on 4cyl 3rds is common resulting in ring gear failures. I'de say I've seen 10 pinion failures for every pinion/ring gear failures I've seen... likely more than that??? Most of these case are actually axle wrap rather than true torsion failure, but it can happen. Still, I recommend most stick with the 4.88's, the seem to offer the best comprimise for strength versus gearing.

Another factor that will slowly come to light... wear. The higher numerical gears have less contact... it will be interesting to see how they are looking after 100k, 200k. I've pulled OE Cruiser diffs apart @~300k that still had a good pattern and clean gears... will the higher gears hold out that long? I don't have any in service that I know of over say 100k. For that reason alone, its hard to say which are stronger.

agent orange said:
I want to say that he told me they were made in italy, but i might be wrong. Im pretty positive the sierras are not chinese. Maybe kurt will chime in and inform us.
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Yup, Antonio Maisero (sp?), an Italian manufacture, reboxed as Sierra. They also have a "value line" gear (just as Randys Ring and Pinion does) that are likely made in China, but to date I've only sold 1 or 2 of those and that was with the customers 100% consent when the Sierras and Yukons were on backorder.
 
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bkg said:
There is more to strength than pinion tooth count. Contact surface is just as important, like you mention, but setup (and brand) is important also. I've seen more 4.10's go than 5.29's. I've also seen more 4.88's go than 5.29's - both of which were in street and mildly wheeled rigs.

Sure - if you throw a healthy V8, heavy right foot, low gears and 40+ tires at a Toy axle, you're going to have problems, regardless of the ratio, but a blank statement that 5.29's are weak is inherently inaccurate.
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Are we talking about course pinion flange 4.10's??? 30 year old units... I know there aren't any 5.29's in service that are older than say 10 years. Too boot there are thousands of 4.10's out there versus the rather limited number of 5.29's. 4.88's are that much more common than 5.29s... its all relative.

5.29s are weaker than 4.88, the engineering proves that. While it may be misleading in "application", the true science behind it is true. I too know of plenty of 5.29's in service, but I know of broken ones too ;)
 
Kurt.. I thought this was aboutr 8" stuff. hy pinion 5.29???
 
Mace said:
Kurt.. I thought this was aboutr 8" stuff. hy pinion 5.29???
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SMACK!!!! I'm an idiot.

Regardless, many of my experiences still fit... and some don't ;)

The 4cyl 8" 3rd doesn't have anywhere near the "ribbing" and case strength that the HP 80 3rd does, so I still don't think ring gear deflection is a major cause of issue. In this case (front HP 3rds) I've rarely seen broken pinions (at the flange), zero axle wrap and all fine-spline. So, all things considered its all about the size of that pinion head... BUT, I'de bet in many cases where a 5.29 fails, a 4.88 would also fail and vice versa ;)
 
It's always about the size of the head... ;)
 
It looks like I would be completely fine with the TG 5.29s, but I am more likely to break something if my driving style got any more aggressive. I think I'll just suck it up and save up more dough for better gears.
 
Some good tec in this thred
 
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