Toyota 14B diesel issue (1 Viewer)

[knuckle47]

So, Diesel gang…

the 1995 toyota 14B in my truck ran and started just fine. Then in my attempt to refresh all the filters when I got to the diesel fuel filter, it was a plastic inline filter that I decided to change back to the original spin on. I had glass beaded the housing, washed it in the parts washer and blew it dry. Replaced the in and out soft fuel lines from the tank and filled the spin on filter with fuel. For an unknown reason, the truck started…ran at a higher idle and blew loads of white smelly smoke in the air and black soot and the ground. Acceleration to a high speed with the pedal is slow and minimal and seems to bog slightly and …the smoke is very steady.

my assumption based on 2 opinions was that the housing which was original to the truck may have an air leak as they are known to fail. So, I went back to a new in-line fuel filter while try to minimize air in the line. ( diesel tastes like s#!t). Anyway had the inline filter 3/4 full…. Started the truck, it starts up easily with a press of the accelerator but is no different with regards to high idle with tons of smoke with soot.

I am waiting for a new spin on housing with the pump but I won’t be getting this until the end of May. I changed absolutely nothing other than to break the fuel line and swap the filters. I am missing something but I am not a diesel guy.

Does anyone have an idea what I may or may not be doing correctly?

 

[duncanrm]

I'm not familiar with the 14B but it certainly sounds like you're massively overfuelling.. how is throttle control achieved on the 14B?

 

[knuckle47]

from my very limited exposure, there is a lever on the injection pump and a butterfly looking valve up top by the air cleaner….both seem to be adjusted in the same manor as a lawnmower engine…. A screw sets the closure distance from the fully closed position

 

[duncanrm]

from my very limited exposure, there is a lever on the injection pump and a butterfly looking valve up top by the air cleaner….both seem to be adjusted in the same manor as a lawnmower engine…. A screw sets the closure distance from the fully closed position

Is there a spring from the injection pump lever to the throttle body butterfly or some sort? I seem to recall something like this on the 13BT.. What opens the butterfly on the throttle body - white smoke can be overfuelling or restricted air intake.

 

[knuckle47]

Is there a spring from the injection pump lever to the throttle body butterfly or some sort? I seem to recall something like this on the 13BT.. What opens the butterfly on the throttle body - white smoke can be overfuelling or restricted air intake.

I am going to look in the morning… I don’t think I could have knocked anything off but I believe there is a secondary cable going to this intake butterfly from the injection pump. I am thankful for your input. Hopefully this will be a dumb thing I never realized.

Here in east coast USA NJ it is 12:49am. I have a friend in Heidelberg Heights in Victoria and I send him texts accidentally at 3am his time never considering the wild time swing

 

[mudgudgeon]

Keep this simple. If you touched only the filter and hoses, your problem is there.

What you describe with white smelly smoke, change in idle, and bogging on acceleration so points to air getting sucked into the fuel system.

The fuel pump pulls a vacuum through the fuel lines. If you have a cracked diaphragm in the primer pump, a cracked or loose fitting fuel hose, or o-ring that isn't 100% sealed, you have a pathway for air to be sucked into the fuel.

This can happen with no visible sign of a fuel leak.

Air in the fuel is compressed as it goes through the fuel pump, this then means that it also needs to be compressed again before the injector nozzles will crack open. The result is delayed injection timing at a cylinder each time an air bubble find it's way to the an injector.

The loss of power is because of the retarded and inconsistent injection timing.
The white smoke is due to incomplete combustion of fuel, because it's injected late in the combustion cycle. There's no time for it to all burn before being exhausted.

One way to verify this is your issue is to use a piece of clear PVC hose temporarily from the filter, to the fuel pump. If you see any air bubbles, that's your problem.

 

[knuckle47]

That just seems so logical and clear….doing it will hopefully show the problem…I will certainly get back to you

again, thank you

 

[knuckle47]

@mudgudgeon and @duncanrm So here is a video hoping it may provide some clarity on the problem..you guys are my only source currently unless I can find shop to get this addressed so I do appreciate the help



the 3 black spots on the concrete by the tailpipe are the soot deposits from 30 seconds of idling. The most forward spot seem lighter. The cranking in the beginning was not that way before…it started right up by turning the key. A press of the pedal works and it starts. The diesel fuel filter and the pump housing showed up today. I installed it and replaced all of the hoses right up to the injection pump and used the spring clamps instead of the screw type stainless clamps.

the air filter housing was removed for ease of access but is complete. I am completely lost on this. It seems to run like a carbureted car when the choke is stuck
on…..
on

 

[duncanrm]

Can you take a video of the intake manifold, pump and butterfly whilst the throttle is being moved.. you should see the linkage the injection pump moving with the butterfly..


For reference, check this video - observe the lever on the pump moving. The press of the pedal to get it to start is very odd, get eyes on that linkage mechanism between the butterfly and pump.. I am not sure what the shutdown mechanism is on the 14B (EDIC maybe?). I dont think this is an air-in-fuel issue, but I might be wrong.

 

[knuckle47]

@duncanrm I see what you are saying and I did see that the linkage between the injection pump and the top butterfly is active. On the other hand…I just got a phone call from the previous owner … he tells me that the injectors may need to be calibrated. As they wear, the spring tension may release fuel at a lower pressure and cause this issue…it is over fueled in this case. He also said if it is too much tension the engine may be fuel starved and there is a procedure to re-calibrate the injector pressures

I just finished ordering a few injector parts to re-build them and in the 14B engine manual, there is a hand pump device to pump pressure into the injector along with a pressure gauge to set to 200Psi? I need to recheck..

I was hoping for a simpler fix but if this is what it is going to take…I gotta do it. Any thoughts on that?

 

[knuckle47]

I'm not familiar with the 14B but it certainly sounds like you're massively overfuelling.. how is throttle control achieved on the 14B?

Discovered a small clue today with this same high idle and smoking problem…getting ready to tow it to a diesel shop but I don't ever give up this easily so…. While trying to bleed the air again (if any) when I loosened the nut on the injector feed, a slight drop in idle speed occurred as diesel fuel was squirting out. My head was saying so now by giving the cylinder less fuel, the speed dropped.

if your statement about massive overfueling is correct…this may have demonstrated it…. It slowed from maybe 2000rpm to 1900? Any thoughts on where I might find out what causes overfueling in diesel engines?

 

[4Ruster]

From the video it definitely sounds like the timing is retarded, you can barely hear any diesel clatter. The high idle kinda sounds like when an injector gets stuck open, and it would also smoke pretty white, but you would hear that cylinder hammering like crazy.

I wish I could be of more help, hopefully you will get some answers at the shop.

Here's how mine sounded when a piece of rust got jammed in the injector nozzle. Idle went up by a few hundred RPM.

 

[mudgudgeon]

My head was saying so now by giving the cylinder less fuel, the speed dropped.

Engine speed in a diesel is completely controlled by how much fuel you give it. If it's idling high, it's getting more fuel than needed to idle.

Was the old filter clogged up? Maybe it was clogged, or too small and limiting fuel flow?

You could try backing out the idle speed stop on the top of the fuel pump.
You can't do any harm with this, and it may help with trouble shooting.

Idle speed screw circled red.

I've never dealt with a diesel with a butterfly in the intake.
Not sure what the relationship with the butterfly, and throttle linkage to the fuel injection pump is. Or how/ if that affects idle speed.

Beyond that, it never hurts to check the injection timing. The FSM should give you details on tools and method for this.

 

[mudgudgeon]

If you do adjust the idle stop, also check adjustment on the throttle cable. You don't want any slack at idle, but also don't want it pulling tight.

 

[knuckle47]

My thought as well….. seems like the throttle is just screwed open too much…but , I did not smoke this it does now…. I will check it in the morning light and see if this works….

what is making me a bit crazy is that this thing ran great up until the fuel filter change….maybe it was clogged? Maybe I knocked something loose? At the typical 800 rpm idle it did chatter as you mentioned @4Ruster . Since the next ‘amateur” fix is just backing out the throttle screw, I’ll do this. I also ordered the leakage rail gaskets and injector seat, along with new injector nozzles. I am not afraid of digging in a little bit. Bear in mind my 70 year old body starts to hurt faster when bending or stretching in odd positions. If my next attempt fails, it’s a diesel shop for sure. I am afraid of going to toyota locally only because when I was looking for some simple parts, the parts counter guy was a little too much by the book…essentially make, model, serial number , And of course, could not find anything. In the US, these are all listed as non-typical and while 14B should be readily available information…seems like their inventories are geared for Corollas and Tacomas…even the DMV would not register the vehicle until I brought them a photo of the data place as it is not a standard vin number. When I’m looking for parts @mudgudgeon has the best idea of looking at the Dynamic 200 model car…the 14B in this vehicle is the same

stay tuned…I guarantee I will solve this one wat or another. Bought a fuel injector pressure tester that should be here by the weekend 2900psi here I come.

thank you all for stimulating my thinking and creating my aggressive approach to resolving this….if it totally fails, your looking at the next 2F Bandierante

 

[mudgudgeon]

My thought as well….. seems like the throttle is just screwed open too much…but , I did not smoke this it does now…. I will check it in the morning light and see if this works….

what is making me a bit crazy is that this thing ran great up until the fuel filter change….maybe it was clogged? Maybe I knocked something loose? At the typical 800 rpm idle it did chatter as you mentioned @4Ruster . Since the next ‘amateur” fix is just backing out the throttle screw, I’ll do this. I also ordered the leakage rail gaskets and injector seat, along with new injector nozzles. I am not afraid of digging in a little bit. Bear in mind my 70 year old body starts to hurt faster when bending or stretching in odd positions. If my next attempt fails, it’s a diesel shop for sure. I am afraid of going to toyota locally only because when I was looking for some simple parts, the parts counter guy was a little too much by the book…essentially make, model, serial number , And of course, could not find anything. In the US, these are all listed as non-typical and while 14B should be readily available information…seems like their inventories are geared for Corollas and Tacomas…even the DMV would not register the vehicle until I brought them a photo of the data place as it is not a standard vin number. When I’m looking for parts @mudgudgeon has the best idea of looking at the Dynamic 200 model car…the 14B in this vehicle is the same

stay tuned…I guarantee I will solve this one wat or another. Bought a fuel injector pressure tester that should be here by the weekend 2900psi here I come.

thank you all for stimulating my thinking and creating my aggressive approach to resolving this….if it totally fails, your looking at the next 2F Bandierante

It'll be worth persevering keep revisiting this thread with updates, more questions etc. Someone will hit on the answer for you at some point.

The diesels are just another dumb machine, albeit different to a gasser.
To fix them you just have to be slightly smarter than they are

 

[knuckle47]

This came today. I am wondering if while changing the old filter some gunk inside the old in-line unit may have gone into the pump or injectors. Manual describes a release pressure of 2800 psi? I can’t pull them yet as I don’t yet have the new injector seats and leakage rail gaskets to seal it back up. I read and re-read the procedure for testing and re-shimming to increase the release pressure. All of this is new for me, I have ZERO diesel experience. I did turn back the idle screw on the injection pump and while it came back an 1/8” or 2-3mm, it only dropped maybe 50 rpm. In first gear, this truck will roll about 20MPH. Added some diesel Kleenex to the fuel…just pulling at straws there

if anyone has a helpful thought, I do appreciate the input

 

[4Ruster]

This came today. I am wondering if while changing the old filter some gunk inside the old in-line unit may have gone into the pump or injectors. Manual describes a release pressure of 2800 psi? I can’t pull them yet as I don’t yet have the new injector seats and leakage rail gaskets to seal it back up. I read and re-read the procedure for testing and re-shimming to increase the release pressure. All of this is new for me, I have ZERO diesel experience. I did turn back the idle screw on the injection pump and while it came back an 1/8” or 2-3mm, it only dropped maybe 50 rpm. In first gear, this truck will roll about 20MPH. Added some diesel Kleenex to the fuel…just pulling at straws there

if anyone has a helpful thought, I do appreciate the input

View attachment 3324691

I have that same tester. Works well for the cost. You have to screw the knob in all the way then back it off a tiny bit or the guage won't read. Then to take the pressure off when done you unscrew it until the gauge reads zero, then you can take the injector off. Kinda weird but it works.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Keep fingies away from nozzles when testing.

Diesel oil injected into the skin ain't no good!

 

[mudgudgeon]

I did turn back the idle screw on the injection pump and while it came back an 1/8” or 2-3mm, it only dropped maybe 50 rpm. In first gear, this truck will roll about 20MPH

Something is not right.

Other things you can look into are

Injection timing.

Fuel settings
- adjust the "Full load set screw". P168 of the 14B service manual.
Aka main fuel screw. This may have a anti tamper collar attached to the lock nut. Tear it off with pliers.
If it's smokey at all RPM, it may have been wound out for more power by a PO. Changing out the old filter may have affected this if it was a restriction.
Winding the main fuel screw in will reduce fuel delivery right across the operating range.
Adjust it 1/8 of a turn at a time and see g there's any chance. ( This is starting to go down a rabbit hole, easy to lose track of what changes you've made)
After adjusting, you may need to adjust idle speed screw again.

ACSD - Automatic Cold Start Device. Labelled in the FSM diagrams as ThermoWax.
They are intended to raise idle speed when the engine is cold, as coolant comes to temperature, idle speed should drop again.
These are a known failure point with the VE rotary injection pumps.
Search here for more info. Failure Can lead to destruction of internal parts in the pump. Generally considered not to be necessary, and a lot of guys remove them as a precaution.