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- #21
Yea…. I have read about that finger injection. Nice to know it will provide some information. Has it shown that you had an injector problem at any point?
Toyota 14B diesel issue (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter knuckle47
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- #22
@mudgudgeon this is really great information…thanks! Having a place to look is so much better than starring into the engine bay and having a blank look on my face. I’ve looked at the same dirty section under that butterfly now for two weeks and pressed on any thing that looks like it could have moved…of course it hasn’t
i am hoping I do not need to mess around with the injection pump. I know nothing about it and some YouTube videos show people working on them as if they can do it while sleeping. They toss all of the small parts into a try flooded with diesel fuel and then fish them out for re-assembly. That machine with the dripping test tubes looks real intimidating. I guess it is a test for proper fuel settings.
The worst possible scenario is having to wait 3 weeks for parts. those web sites have almost anything, the problem is shipping. My fuel filter mount is a perfect fit but was held up in France. Once released, it was here in 2 days.
check that new filter and filter mount if that was all that was changed, maybe cracked? maybe the filter isnt sealing
did you use a suction device to pull fuel from the tank to the pump if that line was open?
did you bleed the pump itself?
I'd start from the tank line and bleed it all in succession right to the injectors again
the clear line to see bubbles is the best way to find air leaks
did you use a suction device to pull fuel from the tank to the pump if that line was open?
did you bleed the pump itself?
I'd start from the tank line and bleed it all in succession right to the injectors again
the clear line to see bubbles is the best way to find air leaks
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- #24
Thank you @bj70bc …no I did not. I did reconnect from the fuel tank to the filter housing …then press the pump top on the fuel filter housing to draw fuel into the filter and the injection pump. I did replace the fuel line from the filter to the injection pump. Once started, usually with one press of the accelerator pedal, it revs up and idles very high. If it was a gas engine, you might say the choke is on and pressing the accelerator once would disengage the choke.
the engine will rev up when you step on the pedal but when it settles down, it is no different and still very high. My greater skills lie in the big block 454 Chevrolets. Worked on boats with twin Chevys…. All carburetors…I have so little diesel skill and the only thing in knew was ….get the air out of the fuel system and, I thought I did this.
one thing on the clear line…does it need any special type for use with diesel?
the engine will rev up when you step on the pedal but when it settles down, it is no different and still very high. My greater skills lie in the big block 454 Chevrolets. Worked on boats with twin Chevys…. All carburetors…I have so little diesel skill and the only thing in knew was ….get the air out of the fuel system and, I thought I did this.
one thing on the clear line…does it need any special type for use with diesel?
not for testing purposes no, i can be anything if you dont leave it on there permanently.
i would start with a systematic air bleed. start with the tank line, use a fluid transfer pump or similar and suck through a couple quarts and re attach, then find the pump air bleed screw or nut and bleed the pump, then do the filter, then get it running and crack the injectors one by one and let it move some diesel out the injector /line interface.
Im not familiar with the 14b but this is pretty standard on these diesels, i have the 3b, check the fsm on this site somewhere or elsewhere for your particular procedure but this will be fairly standard
I would highly suggest inspecting the housing and filter mating surfaces, all disturbed copper crush washers and injector spill rail seals and the injector return line to the pump
i would start with a systematic air bleed. start with the tank line, use a fluid transfer pump or similar and suck through a couple quarts and re attach, then find the pump air bleed screw or nut and bleed the pump, then do the filter, then get it running and crack the injectors one by one and let it move some diesel out the injector /line interface.
Im not familiar with the 14b but this is pretty standard on these diesels, i have the 3b, check the fsm on this site somewhere or elsewhere for your particular procedure but this will be fairly standard
I would highly suggest inspecting the housing and filter mating surfaces, all disturbed copper crush washers and injector spill rail seals and the injector return line to the pump
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- #26
@bj70bc i appreciate the guidance… don’t know if you read the previous posts… ALL I DID was change the fuel filter housing back to the original from an in-line version like you might use on a lawn mower…only larger. Since that time I have taken it a few steps further by changing the fuel lines between the tank feed to the filter housing and the filter housing to the injection pump. It has reacted the same since the very first re-start. I will get on this tomorrow after work and get back here with any results
thank you for the tips
thank you for the tips
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- #27
Got this email this morning…
Clearance issues have been resolved for your package from MEGAZIP JAPAN. Shipment has been released for delivery
once these seals and gaskets show up, i can take two giant steps show the air bleeding process not solve the problem. One thing is that it is waaay tooo coincidental that this problem started immediately after the fuel filter change
Clearance issues have been resolved for your package from MEGAZIP JAPAN. Shipment has been released for delivery
once these seals and gaskets show up, i can take two giant steps show the air bleeding process not solve the problem. One thing is that it is waaay tooo coincidental that this problem started immediately after the fuel filter change
exactly
so the new filter or housing is fubar and letting air in
or there is still air in there from opening it up
or you disturbed something and now it isnt sealed up and letting air in
mudgudgeon
Resident galah
FWIW, I've never had to bleed injectors on a Toyota diesel with the rotary style pump, unless I've had injectors out, or injector lines disconnected.
Changing filter, or even running out of fuel, I've been able to restart and run the engine and let it self bleed with a few minutes of running.
Having said that, if you've exhausted other possibilities trouble shooting, don't assume there's no air caught in injector lines/injectors.
Changing filter, or even running out of fuel, I've been able to restart and run the engine and let it self bleed with a few minutes of running.
Having said that, if you've exhausted other possibilities trouble shooting, don't assume there's no air caught in injector lines/injectors.
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- #30
@bj70bc I’m thinking as you said…..air is still in there. So this weekend is a big re-do of what i had done. Also will have a fluid extraction syringe and will try to draw fuel through the injection pump and lines…my injector seals arrived this afternoon from megazip. They look like regular garden hose washers but…I know they're not
as for the rabbit hole…I feel like I’m way down here. Glad you guys decided to follow down here too…I’m sure I will have another bunch of observations I can post.
@mudgudgeon as for not having a problem starting the truck even after running out of fuel…this also started easily but before this, it started instantly and then chugged along at idle around 800 rpm….. since my brilliant idea to change the filter, it starts with a few spins of the crank and then fires up at 2000 rpm, as you know.
as for disturbing something and not being sealed up…I thought about this and looked under the truck for the fuel line from the tank…all looks good there so my involvement was from that steel line to the filter housing and from the filter housing to the injection pump. Basically 4 ends of 2 hoses and new spring clamps. Hard to think this alone could disturb something which is why I place so much of the blame on air…. But with zero experience, I would never know if a bit of air could make things run so poorly
as for the rabbit hole…I feel like I’m way down here. Glad you guys decided to follow down here too…I’m sure I will have another bunch of observations I can post.
@mudgudgeon as for not having a problem starting the truck even after running out of fuel…this also started easily but before this, it started instantly and then chugged along at idle around 800 rpm….. since my brilliant idea to change the filter, it starts with a few spins of the crank and then fires up at 2000 rpm, as you know.
as for disturbing something and not being sealed up…I thought about this and looked under the truck for the fuel line from the tank…all looks good there so my involvement was from that steel line to the filter housing and from the filter housing to the injection pump. Basically 4 ends of 2 hoses and new spring clamps. Hard to think this alone could disturb something which is why I place so much of the blame on air…. But with zero experience, I would never know if a bit of air could make things run so poorly
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- #32
@mudgudgeon @bj70bc …. Tune in this week for another episode of “ Will the Diesel Run”. We’ll be back after this word from our sponsor.
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- #33
Ok…this just popped up…in this photo I found on a website…is this knob a form of diesel choke? This by the way is the same truck with a Mercedes diesel and not a toyota 14B….but, if I pulled on some “thing” and it IS a choke…maybe that is a source of the trouble. You can tell I am grasping at straws
mudgudgeon
Resident galah
I agree. I'm a bit puzzled by the sudden high idle.
ACSD might be contributing to that, but why the sudden change?
ACSD is designed to raised idle speed until coolant is up to temp.
Does it continue to idle fast if you run it long enough to come up to operating temperature?
A choked filter or too small a filter may have been restricting fuel flow previously. Removing a restriction may have freed up fuel flow and raised fuel delivery across the board and contributed to fast idle. But fuel demand at idle is low, so I'm not sure on this either.
A change in behaviour after a simple filter change makes me highly suspicious of the filter, hoses, connection of rubber and hard lines, filter housing.
Had you clamped the new fuel hoses?
Is new fuel hoses the correct size and tight on metal lines and barbs?
What style of clamp did you use?
I strongly recommend the OEM constant tension spring type clamps. Worm drive cosmos can pinch and deform the hoses.
mudgudgeon
Resident galah
In the diesels, this symbol is used to indicate a "hand throttle". It works by pressing the accelerator with your foot, then while holding the gas pedal down, pull that knob out and give it a ¼-½ turn to lock the throttle in position.
They are useful for keeping rpm up while winching, or fixing throttle speed for crawling through river crossings etc
It isn't directly connected to the pump, it just acts on the gas pedal arm under the dash
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- #36
@mudgudgeon great explanation..perfect ..thanks
@bj70bc the new 3/8” rubber fuel lines are clamped by the OEM spring clamps… they were a pain to slide around in the minimal space there but they are secured properly. @mudgudgeon steered my to that ACSD and pointed it out in the engine manual so I need to get back in the garage this weekend and check it all out.
I saw in the exploded service manual that this is part of a cooling thing and is removed on some engines? I may be mistaken here so this is not 100%
if my memory serves me well (ha-ha) I don’t remember seeing any cooling lines going to this area besides the power steering pump In my engine. I’ll check
this is a screen shot of the manual @mudgudgeon sent me. Having looked at this side of the engine for over 6 hours in the last 10 days, I don’t remember seeing the ACSD…again, I’ll double check. I also don’t remember seeing that idle up actuator
@bj70bc the new 3/8” rubber fuel lines are clamped by the OEM spring clamps… they were a pain to slide around in the minimal space there but they are secured properly. @mudgudgeon steered my to that ACSD and pointed it out in the engine manual so I need to get back in the garage this weekend and check it all out.
I saw in the exploded service manual that this is part of a cooling thing and is removed on some engines? I may be mistaken here so this is not 100%
if my memory serves me well (ha-ha) I don’t remember seeing any cooling lines going to this area besides the power steering pump In my engine. I’ll check
this is a screen shot of the manual @mudgudgeon sent me. Having looked at this side of the engine for over 6 hours in the last 10 days, I don’t remember seeing the ACSD…again, I’ll double check. I also don’t remember seeing that idle up actuator
mudgudgeon
Resident galah
You may not have the ACSD. the diagrams are somewhat generic.
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- #38
Thanks…that’s good to know AND, it eliminates the possibility of a problem with it.. at my age I get tired quickly. I really wanted to dive into this deeper tonight but the weekend will bring renewed and smarter investigation
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- #40
No… I have no idea how many previous owners had this thing and had their own ideas about what it should be like… when I was younger I restored a bunch of vintage motorcycles from the 1920’s and 30’s and in the 1990’s they had gone through 70+ years of modifications . Every owner had their own vision of what was great. Some were beyond restoration from so many chops and cuts. This 14B may have had one until someone said…I don’t need this!!
