Town Fair Tire arguement

[40Flipper]

I need to see if I'm an idiot or the Town Fair Tire guy is an idiot.

Wifey blew out the left rear tire the other day on her 2003 Volvo XC90 (all wheel drive). I ordered 2 new ones to match brand, tread, rating, etc, same as the ones on the front.

Since the front 2 were a little worn, I asked him to put the worn ones on the back and out the new ones in the front. He looked at me like I was an idiot.

He pulled out a diagram of a skid pattern of a car with the ass end sliding out. I said "that's great but it's all wheel drive so if the ass end is sliding out the odds are the whole car would be sliding." I explained that it would be much better to have the new tires with fresh tread on the front for steering and grip purposes in general, including if I ended up in said skid.

He shook his head and gave me a look like I was completely retarded. I said if it was rear wheel drive I would agree but he was wrong.

I finally had to demand that they put the new tires on the front and he caved.

Who is right?

The only reason I can think of them wanting to put new tires on the rear is that the older tires on the front will wear out faster and you'll be back in sooner to buy more tires.

Another sales guy tried the same thing with a 45 year old woman who had the same argument as me (she wasn't there when I was arguing) The other salesman said having new tires on the back made the car track straighter in the snow. That just seemed flat out dumb.

Thoughts?

(Also, their invoice was $60 higher than quoted over the phone and the internet. That got fixed quickly with only minor squabbling.)

 

[Splangy]

I suggested the same thing to a mechanic friend of mine (he feeds me free tires) and got the same response! I didn't argue.

 

[40Flipper]

I would love to know the theory behind it. Isn't 75% of your stopping/braking power on the front end? Wouldn't you want good grip?

 

[edwjmcgrath]

I've owned a couple of volvo awd's. On the xc90, unless they are slipping, the front wheels get 95% of the power. When they start slipping some power gets transfered to the rear wheels. So you want the front tires to be the new ones. The fronts will wear faster. I think that you are right on all counts-on this vehicle.

My guess is that this guy learned something on one vehicle and is applying it to every vehicle he sees. If it were a BMW 5 series RWD, I might agree with him.

 

[Impreza]

Actually this is true, when you're buying brand new tires...it should always go in the rear. The reason is to prevent the tail of the car sliding out.

Just what I learn from the Subaru world.

 

[edwjmcgrath]

When tire replacement is necessary, Volvo strongly recommends replacing all four tires at the same time with identical tires. Failure to do so can result in damage to the transmission and all wheel drive system. If only one or two tires are replaced, the new tire(s) must be identical to the tires with which the car was built, and must be mounted on the front axle only. Failure to do this may damage the transmission and all-wheel-drive system.

I found this on the internets, so it must be true.

 

[40Flipper]

It is the same tires all around so got that covered. Seems to be conflicting views. It still doesn't make any sense to me with AWD to have new ones on the back.

 

[landtank]

because you can feel the tires through the steering wheel you will tend to drive to their ability to grip the pavement. If the better tires are on the front then you will be driving beyond the grip of the tires in the rear. With the worse tires on the front and driving to their limitations you will not likely drive beyond the ability of the new tires in the rear.

It's not about propelling you down the road but staying on it.

 

[JohnnyC]

it really depends on the tread left on the old tires.

if there is a marginal amount of tread on the rear then yes the rear will tend to ungrip before the front then the rear will slide out.

if there is a decent amount of tread on the rear it will still have grip to pull thru a turn and not slide.

I could be wrong but i think the volvo is a 90/10 system that when slipping it supplies 50% more torque to the rear? Still far more torque in the front to pull the car thru....with decent tread in the back

the only way the tire guy could make a fair argument is if the tread is less than 1/2 left....in that case however it would be recomended to replace all and keep the 1/2 treads as spare.

I do see your points LandTank but i do think a good tread tire should be fine to have in the rear...1/2 tread or less would be bad.

 

[landtank]

well I don't deal with this anyway on my AWD vehicles. It's a single tire if one fails or all 4 at once, nothing in between. I also don't intermingle brands even in pairs. Good balanced tires is your best offense for good handling and braking and your best defense against as crash. But that's me, some people still run retreads I bet.

 

[Sporin]

because you can feel the tires through the steering wheel you will tend to drive to their ability to grip the pavement. If the better tires are on the front then you will be driving beyond the grip of the tires in the rear. With the worse tires on the front and driving to their limitations you will not likely drive beyond the ability of the new tires in the rear.

It's not about propelling you down the road but staying on it.

Actually this is true, when you're buying brand new tires...it should always go in the rear. The reason is to prevent the tail of the car sliding out.

Just what I learn from the Subaru world.

Yup. This echos many long debate threads on the subject I have read on other car forums.

Doesn't matter which end of the car drives you forward, the better tires go on the back. It seems counter-intuitive, but it's like Rick said, you won't overdrive your front tires, but if your fronts grip, and the back's slide, you'll snap spin before you know it's going.

Your tire guys was correct imo.

 

[40Flipper]

I guess I'm an idiot then. I still refuse to apologize to him. It really does seem counterintuitive but these points do make sense.

 

[Splangy]

When tire replacement is necessary, Volvo strongly recommends replacing all four tires at the same time with identical tires. Failure to do so can result in damage to the transmission and all wheel drive system. If only one or two tires are replaced, the new tire(s) must be identical to the tires with which the car was built, and must be mounted on the front axle only. Failure to do this may damage the transmission and all-wheel-drive system.

I found this on the internets, so it must be true.

That's true for all AWD/FWD vehicles. Putting different tires on your AWD volvo would be like putting different gear ratios in the front and rear of your Cruiser while running it in 4WD.

 

[landtank]

I guess I'm an idiot then. I still refuse to apologize to him. It really does seem counterintuitive but these points do make sense.

you're not an idiot. And if the exchange got rather heated and you now think he was right you might want to go back and talk with him. That way if you need tires you won't be "that Jerk" when you walk in.

Besides apologizing when your wrong is good for the soul.

 

[40Flipper]

It wasn't that heated it was just uncomfortable. If the guy wasn't a dick about it then I'd eat my words happily. Anyway, I can admit when I'm wrong so I'll probably smooth things over.

 

[JohnnyC]

Besides apologizing when your wrong is good for the soul.

x2 I hear ya

i am very good at apologizing the the

 

[Cattledog]

Had the same question. Awhile back I had a the tech put the new tires on the front of the van. He did it but never explaned his point of view.

Thanks Rick.

 

[40Flipper]

Went back to Town Fair Tire to fistfight the guy in the empty lot behind the store at high noon today....

Not really. Had to go back to get the alignment done. Told him I had looked it up online about the new tire thing and admitted I was wrong. He said he hadn't seen the TEQ symbol I had on my jacket in ages and thought it was cool. We are now best friends.

 

[Sporin]

nice.

 

[lhommec13]

Went back to Town Fair Tire to fistfight the guy in the empty lot behind the store at high noon today....

Not really. Had to go back to get the alignment done. Told him I had looked it up online about the new tire thing and admitted I was wrong. He said he hadn't seen the TEQ symbol I had on my jacket in ages and thought it was cool. We are now best friends.

Feel better now? Or do you think pummeling his a$$ would have felt even better?? Sometimes a little violence in this society is a good thing...sometimes.