Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (4 Viewers)

[eatSleepWoof]

A trailer brake controller and WD hitch is a must have. You can not safely tow a camper without these 2 items.

Having a brake controller is an easy argument, but I'm less convinced about the WD hitch factor.

Consider Australian trailers: most travel extensively around their continent, and few of them use WD hitches. Can anyone explain why? Do they simply travel at much lower speeds? Do their trailer designs have some elements that make WD hitches unnecessary? I understand the limits a WD hitch would impose on coupler articulation in off-road scenarios, but surely their trailers are not spending 100% of the time off-road?

Case in point, the Kimberley Karavan T-Class is at 7706lb GVWR, and yet its tongue design doesn't even allow for a WD hitch to be installed. What gives?

Most european travel trailers also seem to not use WD hitches, and they are also typically of a different design in that the axles are further forward on the trailer and there's a lower tongue weight; two factors that would actually increase the probability of trailer sway.

So what is it about our North American use case that "requires" WD hitches? Our massive interstates and the speeds we travel at? Cultural norms? Inability to drive?

// edit - found this video, of an Australian trailer using a WD hitch: . Even with an articulating coupler. I wonder if the limitation of not using a WD hitch is simply limited to the Kimberley's tongue design/available room, and is not actually as wide spread as I had thought?

 

[coleAK]

So thats where I'm confused, the Gross vehicle weight rating of the Land Cruiser is 7,275 lbs. But the max towing weight is 8,500.
So when i'm looking to tow a trailer do I look at the GVWR of the trailer i'm looking to tow or the Unit Base Weight (with LP and Batteries) of 5,600 LBS of the trailer i'm looking to tow?

The GVW of 7275 is for the LC. Truck+people+gear+tongue weight+…. Basically the max weight that can be on the trucks 4 wheels. Tow weight is the max GVWR that a trailer can have.

 

[JAS4]

Having a brake controller is an easy argument, but I'm less convinced about the WD hitch factor.

Consider Australian trailers: most travel extensively around their continent, and few of them use WD hitches. Can anyone explain why? Do they simply travel at much lower speeds? Do their trailer designs have some elements that make WD hitches unnecessary? I understand the limits a WD hitch would impose on coupler articulation in off-road scenarios, but surely their trailers are not spending 100% of the time off-road?……

Glad you posted this. I’ve been wondering about this as well.

 

[gomez268]

I appreciate the responses. But wait there's more lol.

Ok so does having steel front and rear bumpers and side steps affect the amount you can tow?

Also before installing front and rear bumpers I was getting about 13 city 16-17 hwy. After installation I get 9 city and 13-14 hwy.

Realistically what should I expect to see as towing mpg? 4 city 9 hwy?

On this thread i've seen some mention about 9 city and 13 hwy, but that seemed to be on stock cruisers.

 

[TeCKis300]

Having a brake controller is an easy argument, but I'm less convinced about the WD hitch factor.

Consider Australian trailers: most travel extensively around their continent, and few of them use WD hitches. Can anyone explain why? Do they simply travel at much lower speeds? Do their trailer designs have some elements that make WD hitches unnecessary? I understand the limits a WD hitch would impose on coupler articulation in off-road scenarios, but surely their trailers are not spending 100% of the time off-road?

Case in point, the Kimberley Karavan T-Class is at 7706lb GVWR, and yet its tongue design doesn't even allow for a WD hitch to be installed. What gives?

Most european travel trailers also seem to not use WD hitches, and they are also typically of a different design in that the axles are further forward on the trailer and there's a lower tongue weight; two factors that would actually increase the probability of trailer sway.

So what is it about our North American use case that "requires" WD hitches? Our massive interstates and the speeds we travel at? Cultural norms? Inability to drive?

// edit - found this video, of an Australian trailer using a WD hitch: . Even with an articulating coupler. I wonder if the limitation of not using a WD hitch is simply limited to the Kimberley's tongue design/available room, and is not actually as wide spread as I had thought?

You're asking all the right questions and I suspect you know most of the answers based on how you're framing them. I'll add my 1 cent based on my research over the years.

There was a great academic paper (that I can't find at the moment) that described the largest variables to trailer sway. The short answer, based on the US use cases for trailers - WD hitches are critical to expanding the safe and stable operating envelop of an articulated rig.

In the paper, one of the largest, if not the single largest factor is speed. That is the energy source which can incite instability given various other factors like wind, grade, speed differential between TV and trailer (especially when slowing). Every rig setup has a critical speed threshold where it is no longer stable given conditions. A well setup WD hitch can be one of the largest adjustments to expanding that stable speed envelop.

Mass of TV vs trailer (particularly of mass near the hitch), is another big variable which generally works to our favor, until the trailer starts exceeding the 200-series mass.

In short, other countries have much lower speed limits for articulated vehicles. Their trailers tend to be much lighter weight. They have more centered axles (a configuration that lowers tongue weight, but also lowers the critical stable speed).

 

[eatSleepWoof]

You're asking all the right questions and I suspect you know most of the answers based on how you're framing them. I'll add my 1 cent based on my research over the years.

There was a great academic paper (that I can't find at the moment) that described the largest variables to trailer sway. The short answer, based on the US use cases for trailers - WD hitches are critical to expanding the safe and stable operating envelop of an articulated rig.

In the paper, one of the largest, if not the single largest factor is speed. That is the energy source which can incite instability given various other factors like wind, grade, speed differential between TV and trailer (especially when slowing). Every rig setup has a critical speed threshold where it is no longer stable given conditions. A well setup WD hitch can be one of the largest adjustments to expanding that stable speed envelop.

Mass of TV vs trailer (particularly of mass near the hitch), is another big variable which generally works to our favor, until the trailer starts exceeding the 200-series mass.

In short, other countries have much lower speed limits for articulated vehicles. Their trailers tend to be much lighter weight. They have more centered axles (a configuration that lowers tongue weight, but also lowers the critical stable speed).

Thanks. Sounds like there are two major factors, then:

1. Speed. The faster you drive, the less stable the vehicle & trailer, the more you "need" to have a WD setup.
2. Vehicle weight vs. trailer weight. Less trailer, more vehicle is desirable.

So everything comes down to the individual setup, conditions, etc. Some may 100% require a WD hitch, others may be able to get away without one. Not a very definitive guide, but flexibility and options have their upsides, too.

 

[coleAK]

Having a brake controller is an easy argument, but I'm less convinced about the WD hitch factor.

Consider Australian trailers: most travel extensively around their continent, and few of them use WD hitches. Can anyone explain why? Do they simply travel at much lower speeds? Do their trailer designs have some elements that make WD hitches unnecessary? I understand the limits a WD hitch would impose on coupler articulation in off-road scenarios, but surely their trailers are not spending 100% of the time off-road?

Case in point, the Kimberley Karavan T-Class is at 7706lb GVWR, and yet its tongue design doesn't even allow for a WD hitch to be installed. What gives?

Most european travel trailers also seem to not use WD hitches, and they are also typically of a different design in that the axles are further forward on the trailer and there's a lower tongue weight; two factors that would actually increase the probability of trailer sway.

So what is it about our North American use case that "requires" WD hitches? Our massive interstates and the speeds we travel at? Cultural norms? Inability to drive?

// edit - found this video, of an Australian trailer using a WD hitch: . Even with an articulating coupler. I wonder if the limitation of not using a WD hitch is simply limited to the Kimberley's tongue design/available room, and is not actually as wide spread as I had thought?

I think there are many factors. Shorter trailer tongues, lighter weight, more forward axles, less high speeds,…. I can tell you this, to get in and out of my driveway and few places I go I disconnect my WD to increase articulation. It tows a lot less stable even with the leveling of AHC, if I turn off AHC with no WD it squats the rear ~4”.

 

[coleAK]

Thanks. Sounds like there are two major factors, then:

1. Speed. The faster you drive, the less stable the vehicle & trailer, the more you "need" to have a WD setup.
2. Vehicle weight vs. trailer weight. Less trailer, more vehicle is desirable.

So everything comes down to the individual setup, conditions, etc. Some may 100% require a WD hitch, others may be able to get away without one. Not a very definitive guide, but flexibility and options have their upsides, too.

My brother has a <4K lb, 350lb TW rPod. I moved it for him across town last summer without the WD bars attached (his didn’t have enough drop mine isn’t comparable with his bars). It tossed around back there and felt pretty unstable. Towed it ~15 miles max 50mph. If I had that trailer I’d run a WD set up.

 

[Artie]

My brother has a <4K lb, 350lb TW rPod. I moved it for him across town last summer without the WD bars attached (his didn’t have enough drop mine isn’t comparable with his bars). It tossed around back there and felt pretty unstable. Towed it ~15 miles max 50mph. If I had that trailer I’d run a WD set up.

That’s similar in size and weight to my Conqueror… 350lb tongue, 4500 max weight, 17 feet long. I get a little bit of rocking back and forth but it’s also got independent suspension. I forget it’s back there until I check the review or go up a hill. I have some helper bags and they must do more than I thought.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks. Sounds like there are two major factors, then:

1. Speed. The faster you drive, the less stable the vehicle & trailer, the more you "need" to have a WD setup.
2. Vehicle weight vs. trailer weight. Less trailer, more vehicle is desirable.

So everything comes down to the individual setup, conditions, etc. Some may 100% require a WD hitch, others may be able to get away without one. Not a very definitive guide, but flexibility and options have their upsides, too.

Ayup. There's a lot of components to stability. A big dually generally doesn't need much more help than just throwing it on the ball. It's the way all the variables add up, that establishes the critical speed of each rig. Much below that critical speed, sway doesn't exist. As you approach that critical speed, sway can set in, but can be controlled. Over that critical speed, and perhaps with the help of a few other contributing factors just lowering that critical threshold, where the rig "use to be stable", and sway can be resonant and uncontrollable. Especially if the driver doesn't react quickly and appropriately to mitigate additional sway energy.

As said, there's lots of variable and factors. Some can be adjusted, like shifting the loads within the trailer, or increasing tire pressure. The way I look at WD bars is that it installs a big dial that I can turn and adjust to increase the stable speed threshold greatly as @coleAK describes. Setup wrong, it doesn't help enough. Also, it can only be turned up so much as a hitch ultimately still has to articulate. It might be good to also understand that if one's rig is unstable, there might be a shortcoming or factor that can't be made up enough with WD, and it would be worth the due diligence to figure out what that is.

That could be things like:
1) Too little tongue weight; too much weight aft of the trailer axles
2) Not enough tire pressure - read as too much sidewall compliance. Just as important that the trailer tires are properly inflated
3) Hitch projected too far off the rear bumper. Ball should be as close and tight to the bumper as possible to maximize wheelbase to rear overhang ratio, aka wheelbase
4) Too large of a trailer; too much yaw inertial force; profile too large that it catches side wind loads
5) Too much speed; trailer has too much momentum coming into a downhill; trailer brakes not properly adjusted; trailer has too much momentum trying to overtake the tow vehicle which incites sway

 

[eatSleepWoof]

The extra margin of safety provided by a WD hitch is definitely not a bad thing, and certainly welcome to have.

Now a question slightly off tangent: does the a-frame of the trailer's tongue have to be built a certain way in order to benefit from a WD hitch? (Outside of simply being able to mount the WD hitch.) I vaguely recall hearing/reading somewhere that the "arms" of the trailer's a-frame have to be within a certain angle (30 degrees?) off the centre for WD hitches to be useable. In my (non-engineer) opinion it seems that so long as the WD hitch can be securely attached, the angle of the arms/mounting points relative to the centre/hitch shouldn't matter all that much (within reason). Am I incorrect in this assumption?

I'm thinking again of that Kimberley Kruiser I linked to above, and similarly setup trailers. It seems to me that it would be fairly simple to fabricate a custom option that would allow a WD hitch (like the one in the above video) to attach to the a-frame... basically a set of (beefy) brackets that would bolt/attach to the existing frame, protrude outwards, and provide a mounting location for the WD hitch. This would, of course, affect the angle of the WD hitch arms relative to centre, thus my initial question.

 

[coleAK]

The extra margin of safety provided by a WD hitch is definitely not a bad thing, and certainly welcome to have.

Now a question slightly off tangent: does the a-frame of the trailer's tongue have to be built a certain way in order to benefit from a WD hitch? (Outside of simply being able to mount the WD hitch.) I vaguely recall hearing/reading somewhere that the "arms" of the trailer's a-frame have to be within a certain angle (30 degrees?) off the centre for WD hitches to be useable. In my (non-engineer) opinion it seems that so long as the WD hitch can be securely attached, the angle of the arms/mounting points relative to the centre/hitch shouldn't matter all that much (within reason). Am I incorrect in this assumption?

I'm thinking again of that Kimberley Kruiser I linked to above, and similarly setup trailers. It seems to me that it would be fairly simple to fabricate a custom option that would allow a WD hitch (like the one in the above video) to attach to the a-frame... basically a set of (beefy) brackets that would bolt/attach to the existing frame, protrude outwards, and provide a mounting location for the WD hitch. This would, of course, affect the angle of the WD hitch arms relative to centre, thus my initial question.

Some WD hitches that have sway control integrated to the spring bars have angle limits. In my experience as long as the leaf spring bar attachments can be fit there is a WD hitch that will work

 

[TeCKis300]

The extra margin of safety provided by a WD hitch is definitely not a bad thing, and certainly welcome to have.

Now a question slightly off tangent: does the a-frame of the trailer's tongue have to be built a certain way in order to benefit from a WD hitch? (Outside of simply being able to mount the WD hitch.) I vaguely recall hearing/reading somewhere that the "arms" of the trailer's a-frame have to be within a certain angle (30 degrees?) off the centre for WD hitches to be useable. In my (non-engineer) opinion it seems that so long as the WD hitch can be securely attached, the angle of the arms/mounting points relative to the centre/hitch shouldn't matter all that much (within reason). Am I incorrect in this assumption?

I'm thinking again of that Kimberley Kruiser I linked to above, and similarly setup trailers. It seems to me that it would be fairly simple to fabricate a custom option that would allow a WD hitch (like the one in the above video) to attach to the a-frame... basically a set of (beefy) brackets that would bolt/attach to the existing frame, protrude outwards, and provide a mounting location for the WD hitch. This would, of course, affect the angle of the WD hitch arms relative to centre, thus my initial question.

I agree with this.

Perhaps where the need for the arms to be within some angle, comes from the fact that with more angle, some leverage or WD tension in the longitudinal direction is lost. It would still work well enough, just with some diminishing returns.

 

[GordJ]

I am far from being an engineer but when the load bars are spread aren’t you taking the load bearing force and turning it into torsion? There is only so much power in the bars and if they are ”twisting” the truck by spreading the bars you have to be taking the ability to move load to the front. In my mind the most effective way to transfer load would put the bars on the longitudes axis but when anti sway is desired you have to find a middle ground.
As far as the Kimberly’s not needing WD hitches is because they keep weight close to the COB. I have a 16.5’ single axle camping trailer that weighs in at about 3500 lbs and I have removed the WD hitch because I found it to be redundant. My 4000 lb boat doesn’t have a WD hitch either because the weight is close to being over the axles. Our recreational trailers in North America have a lot of weight far from the COB, propane and batteries and storage as far forward as possible and all the water tanks at the rear. You would never load a freight truck this way. I think, with no education in this at all, that we end up with lots of weight at the end of long levers that have both longitudal and lateral effects. Sorry, I had an extra two cents and thought that I’d throw it in.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Interesting thoughts, Gord. You may be on to something with the weight distribution of those specific trailers.

 

[JAS4]

A quick google search appears to show towing speed limits in Australia as limited to that of other traffic -- 100kmh (Western Australia), and up to 110kmh elsewhere (62-68 mph). In the various States here at home I've observed trailer towing speed limits ranging from 55 to 70 mph. I'm beginning to form the idea that Australia expects its citizens to be towing just as fast as we do.

Interestingly, I learned that apparently in Australia some car makers restrict towing speed limits based on the car model and weight being towed - heavier the trailer, lower the speed. See below.

What Is the Speed Limit for Towing a Caravan in Australia?

I was wondering: what is the speed limit for towing a caravan in Australia? I did some research, and found that often it depends on what car you're using...

abigpeacheyadventure.com.au

For the 200 Series, Toyota Australia recommends using a "distributing hitch" when towing a "caravan", as well as a sway control device if the trailer weight exceeds the vehicle weight.

https://toyotamanuals.com.au/docs/landcruiser-200-owners-manual-aug-19-jun-20/

 

[linuxgod]

WD sucks off-road. Most US trailers stay on road. If you were taking a Kimberly off-road you’d have to at least disconnect the WD bars

 

[JAS4]

I have a love/hate relationship with my WD hitch for that very reason.

 

[TeCKis300]

Likewise dislike WD bars and they're a a necessary evil with heavier campers. I imagine most that will take one off-road are going to have lighter and more compact trailers. Probably something 4k - 5k lbs category which is still a pretty ginormous trailer. Ideally smaller. If tongue weights are kept under about 600lbs, I think forgoing WD is very possible.

Big trailers still need to articulate. That's where the LX570s AHC earns points on several fronts. I find I can set WD a tad lighter, as at 62mph, the car lowers. This naturally increases WD tension just where it's needed at higher freeway speeds. Another great thing is I can switch to high mode on the fly, which relaxed the WD bars to make it easier to get into driveways and steeper transitions.

 

[NoClue]

Picked up a boreas XT this past weekend in raleigh, NC. Then proceeded to go to cape Charles KOA for the weekend to get accustomed to all the features this little trailer has. I inflated my rear Firestone bags to 20psi, and added 3 clicks of stiffness to my rear kings. After 20 brake applications, my redarc tow pro elite was dialed in. Thanks to all who have answered my stupid questions.