How was your towing mileage? Just want to see if CA version makes a difference (highly doubt it tho)
Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (4 Viewers)
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- Thread starter
- #743
My ~25,000 miles of towing experience with my LC across the country disagrees with your conjecture. At least if you're implying 25'+ total trailer length is too long.
I do believe that the Airstream, Lance, and other trailers with a low center of gravity make a big difference in handling. The bottom of the frame of my Lance is 12" off the ground. Ditto for torsion axles vs the cheap (and bouncy) leaf-sprung ones - my trailer takes road imperfections like it's a leaf-sprung IFS truck, not bouncing all over the friggin' place like my buddy's 30' Cherokee. A good WD hitch makes a huge difference as does dialing it in correctly and shifting interior trailer weight around.
I’ll add to this with my LX I’ve towed my ~6800 lb ORV 22BHS at least 50k miles and a 23’ AS ~10k miles before that. Before my LX I towed the AS with a 7.3L diesel f250. On long straight stretches of open road the F250 was better and more stable, and it felt less like I was towing a camper. Around town, campgrounds, and overall maneuvering the LX is better.
That said before my ‘13 LX I had a g500. Even though the g was tow rated to 7000 lbs my 6000 lb AS was white knuckle towing it. So unless I was just moving it in town I used my f250. However first summer with the LX I got rid of the f250 due to how well the LX tows.
I’ll also add that the thought of huge truck for towing isn’t needed anymore. F150 is now rated to more then my 7.4 f250 was. The only guy I know in AK with an AS sold his GMC 2500 and every summer he takes his 23’ AS from AK to the lower 48 and back now with a Chevy Colorado.
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Physics and math don’t lie, but i gotta believe towing with a 200 or newer 1/2 ton is safer than a 3/4 ton from 10-15 years ago...
That said...Weight matters - you certainly should not tow a trailer that’s significantly heavier than your TV. And the 200 is heavy.
That said...Weight matters - you certainly should not tow a trailer that’s significantly heavier than your TV. And the 200 is heavy.
Not to pile on or be defensive. And I think you do have a point in there.
From my time on the Airstream forums, what's become increasingly obvious is that most don't have a clue as to how to setup a bumper pulled trailer. I can't blame them because it's daunting, with a ton of noise on what best to do. I've learned from those ahead of me, but it wasn't easy to filter through the truly useful information. For the risk adverse and new to towing, it may be good advice to go overkill on TV, and many have done just that. Yet there are still cases of those that have reached for 3/4 and 1-ton HD trucks, only to still find sway. Then they reach for the pivot point projection (PPP) type hitch and declare their problems solved, and HD + PPP is a must for everyone. Sure is suspect when needing two overkills for trailers that were traditionally built for passenger cars. And is it really solved or just masked?
The opportunity here is to tow with a more balanced vehicle that has qualities outside of strictly towing ability. I've said this before, but cost is not the consideration, and I wouldn't care to tow with any truck. The LX rides well, has agility in spades, is multi-talented, and tows great.
@ColoradoSequoia - that's a great great point. Mass can matter (another major variable next to speed for sway) and we all know how heavy this pig is. It also has mass in the rear, which can be a benefit over trucks, at least unladen.
Setup matters with every variable or dial turned either contributing or taking away from stability. Turn them all in the right direction, and one can have a great performing setup. Overlook one, and the other variables are compensating or masking.
If I can offer an easy button to those new - CanAM RV are the experts and have been setting up tow vehicles, even untraditional vehicles, for decades. I'm not saying to go to this extreme, but their advice is gold, and the core principles are useful to setup any vehicle.
Towing Expertise | Towing Videos - Airstreams | Campers London | Travel Trailers for sale
View and share these videos of, occassionally extreme, RV towing combinations.
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Yep, everyone should watch the Tesla model 3 set up to tow the 28’ AS. I wonder if my wife would let me do that to her Tesla...Not to pile on or be defensive. And I think you do have a point in there.
From my time on the Airstream forums, what's become increasingly obvious is that most don't have a clue as to how to setup a bumper pulled trailer. I can't blame them because it's daunting, with a ton of noise on what best to do. I've learned from those ahead of me, but it wasn't easy to filter through the truly useful information. For the risk adverse and new to towing, it may be good advice to go overkill on TV, and many have done just that. Yet there are still cases of those that have reached for 3/4 and 1-ton HD trucks, only to still find sway. Then they reach for the pivot point projection (PPP) type hitch and declare their problems solved, and HD + PPP is a must for everyone. Sure is suspect when needing two overkills for trailers that were traditionally built for passenger cars. And is it really solved or just masked?
The opportunity here is to tow with a more balanced vehicle that has qualities outside of strictly towing ability. I've said this before, but cost is not the consideration, and I wouldn't care to tow with any truck. The LX rides well, has agility in spades, is multi-talented, and tows great.
@ColoradoSequoia - that's a great great point. Mass can matter (another major variable next to speed for sway) and we all know how heavy this pig is. It also has mass in the rear, which can be a benefit over trucks, at least unladen.
Setup matters with every variable or dial turned either contributing or taking away from stability. Turn them all in the right direction, and one can have a great performing setup. Overlook one, and the other variables are compensating or masking.
If I can offer an easy button to those new - CanAM RV are the experts and have been setting up tow vehicles, even untraditional vehicles, for decades. I'm not saying to go to this extreme, but their advice is gold, and the core principles are useful to setup any vehicle.
Towing Expertise | Towing Videos - Airstreams | Campers London | Travel Trailers for sale
View and share these videos of, occassionally extreme, RV towing combinations.www.canamrv.ca
- Thread starter
- #748
I've anecdotally heard the G500 handles horribly even without a trailer. I've not driven one though, but if the rumors I've heard are true I wouldn't pull a popup behind it. FWIW I pulled a 5000# trailer which was 1' shorter than my current setup with a 2008 Acura MDX for a while and while I never felt like I was white knuckling it I can confirm the stock LC pulled it significantly better. Even still that combo had issues, due to the underrated WD bars and the old school friction anti-sway.
My new trailer is the same height, 1' longer, and 1000# heavier, and yet with the BlueOx hitch I've had ZERO sway when passing (or being passed by) 18 wheelers on one or both sides of me while doing 75 MPH. Granted it probably took me a dozen trips to get the setup dialed into where it's at, but it definitely can be done. That said I could probably drop my trailer right onto a quad cab F250 long bed and it would handle the same after about 30 seconds of setup, so yeah heavier weight ratings and much longer wheelbases do make it a lot easier.
- Thread starter
- #749
This is a good point. Lots of trailers (lorries) pulled in the UK and Ireland (we have offices in both) by small (by US standards) CUVs. They're typically shorter (under 25') than a lot of US trailers, but they're effectively being pulled by Nissan Qashquai's (equivalent to Honda CRVs and Toyota RAV4s).
It’s interesting that in Australia, they tow decently sized trailers with LC200s without weight distribution setups, especially given that towing regulations seem to be more strict “down under”.
(WD setups aren’t practical with articulating Offroad hitch setups).
(WD setups aren’t practical with articulating Offroad hitch setups).
My g500 was on 34’s, I took it off-road often and beat it to death. Rolled it in Moab and only broke the side mirror. It was built like a tank, much more overbuilt then any LC I’ve owned (60, 80, 200). That said it drove similar to a very heavy and overbuilt wrangler from the 1980’s. I always looked it as a dedicated off roader, Dated, Cramped and tiny on the inside. I’ve never understood what they are popular with the Beverly Hills crowd, if I didn’t off road it no way I would have owned it.
- Thread starter
- #752
Heh, that's precisely what I'd heard about them
Actually on a trailer trip right now.. Moss Landing, CA. 1974 25ft (model) Avion LeGrande.. About 29ft tongue to bumper. Usually around 6,800 lbs loaded.. Tongue weight around 800 to 900. Use equalizer brand WDH.. Towed at least 20k with the 100 series and now the 200. Absolutely stable. I think proper tongue weight is one of the most important things. I’m sure the trailer being low & kinda roundy doesn’t hurt. The suspension also helps. This particular trailer has an old school heavy duty thing. No springs. Supported by rubber pads and bushings. So it doesn’t lean.. the tandem wheels pivot. Morryde brand suspension. after 45yrs the rubber needed to be replaced. Morryde actually had parts in stock! Fun project I think the 200 is a great tow vehicle.
So I've got a Black Series HQ12 on the way: HQ12 - Travel Trailers - Black Series - https://www.blackseriescamper.com/travel-trailers/hq12.html
Installing a RedArc Tow Por Elite brake controller next week, I already have a good drop hitch, and I know to run the transmission in S. Anything else I should know or buy?
Relatively experienced at towing, haven't towed with the 200 yet. Just want to run this past more knowledgable people to make sure I'm not missing anything.
Installing a RedArc Tow Por Elite brake controller next week, I already have a good drop hitch, and I know to run the transmission in S. Anything else I should know or buy?
Relatively experienced at towing, haven't towed with the 200 yet. Just want to run this past more knowledgable people to make sure I'm not missing anything.
- Thread starter
- #755
ECT PWR is your friend, especially if you have 33"+ tires
If you've towed before there's nothing special with the LC. (With the LX there'd be some minor AHC considerations)
The 7-pin plug is quite deep under the bumper, and some trailers may need a 7-pin extension to be able to reach the plug while turned (relative to the car).
Epic. I trust you'll post lots of pics!
Agreed with those that commented already. Especially tongue weight. Which also translates not to put too much heavy gear behind the trailer axles to counter tongue weight.
Other than that
- Tow mirrors
- Ball close and tight to bumper (to maximize our short wheelbase)
- Dial in enough WD tension to approximately 50% FALR
Cool setup! What kind of camper is that?We interrupt this technical towing discussion to reminisce about good times and dirty trailers:
Hymer GT. Link to build in signature!
