Towing question (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tachycardic
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Tachycardic
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- #22
How should I put this... do NOT f***about when towing.
^^ that's my restored '83 Jeep Wagoneer Ltd. with a V8, refreshed drivetrain, upgraded braking and newer OEM suspension. It was restored with road trips and towing in mind and I'd been towing trailers for five years prior to this s***show. This happened on flat ground and, according to the police's interview of 20+ witnesses on the highway, the trailer went sideways (not a little but completely) without warning. The only reason I kept it under control long enough for others to get away from us was my Wagoneer's tow rating exceeded the combined load and we had the proper towing setup. The only thing that kept us alive was not overloading the towing setup and Toledo steel.
vv And this after the regular trailer I towed was 5' longer and 400 lbs heavier.
That was a four-year restoration shot to s***, couple years of physio/chiro/training recovery and a big headache with the insurance company.
I bought the 80 cuz it was the only non-Jeep I ever wanted but knew I wouldn't be towing anything larger than my M416 or landscaping trailer with it.
The 80-series is not a proper tow vehicle but the Airstream is a beautiful trailer, so if you want to use it do what @1911garand and @LC4LIFE have suggested and get a proper full-size pickup as a tow rig.
Good luck and safe travels.
I really feel for you; that was a beautiful Jeep. But to say that that 80-series (specifically the FZJ) is not a proper tow vehicle is misleading. The FZJ CAN tow, and tow well--albeit slowly. I wouldn't tow a 25-foot trailer, but I can't see why it couldn't handle a 3500 pound 19 footer. Many people here have towed much more than that with few complaints. And the FZJ has a longer wheel base and higher tow rating (Jeep beats the 80 on max tongue weight) than the '83 Wagoneer.
I agree with you that full-sized pick up is a better tow vehicle than the FZJ. But that's like someone saying that a minivan is better for a large family compared to a sedan. I wish I could buy a pick up, but I'll either have to sell the 80 (no thanks) or not get a trailer, which would defeat the purpose of buying a pick up in the first place.
Tachycardic
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- #23
Just a quick follow up...I nearly pulled the trigger on a 22 foot Airstream. It weighs about 3600 pounds empty. I hooked her up with a weight distribution system and start the test drive. Everything up to 40mph was great. The truck handled well and accelerated as expected. Then I tried to go past 45mph and it was just not possible. The engine got to 3500rpm and just stayed there with the pedal to the metal. I knew that I would never be able to make it up some of the 5-6 degree grades on I-70, so I had to back out of the deal. I'm now looking for something lighter like a Scamp--going to try to stay under 2000 pounds.
Yep, same here.
@
Tachycardic
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Just little update...we ended up getting a used Aliner Ease (about 2100 pounds) and the 80 is pulling it like a champ. We have been able to go up 6% grades at about 65mph, which I'm totally fine with. The low profile of a folded camper and being 1500 pounds lighter make a big difference.
Excellent decision......please post a pic of your set-up!!!
Tachycardic
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Ugh, I'm on deployment and don't have pics, but I'm using a mostly stock '94 with a standard height dobbinson's suspension, Air Lift 1000, Tow Prow Elite, and a Curt 17007 weight distribution hitch. Due to the light tongue weight of our 2010 Aliner Ease, I have not used the weight distribution bars. I just pump the air bags to 25psi and I'm level and good to go.
Quick question, has your fuel strainer been replaced? 3500 rpm is where it should be picking up, not topping out.
Are the weight distribution bars also intended to control swaying?
If you have the system, seems short sighted not to use it?
Swaying trailers are usually what brings you undone when towing
Tachycardic
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- #30
Both the fuel filter in the engine bay and the fuel filter sock in the gas tank were replaced with new oem parts prior to that tow attempt. The engine just stayed at 3500rpm at 45mph and the transmission would not shift without me intervening. To be fair, we were at 8200 feet elevation, but it was clear that the truck was struggling nonetheless. We drove home empty handed, but it performed just fine without it burdened with an Airstream.
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Tachycardic
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I believe that the weight distribution bars are meant allow a level ride/correct tow vehicle sag, which in turn provides better steering and stopping control, but do not control swaying. For that, one would need a sway control bar, like the Curt 17200 (Sway Control Kit). I have this, but it would require drilling into the trailer frame--obviously I didn't use it on the Airstream since we didn't buy it, and I have not done it with the Aliner. This may be short sighted, but the Aliner folds down to 5 feet, is both significantly shorter and lighter than the Airstream, and the 80 has been handling tow duties thus far without any issues. I would be interested to know if 1911garand uses a weight distribution system/sway bar kit with his pop up as the Aliner is similar.
The weight distribution system was originally intended to be used with the Airstream since it had a tongue weight of 440 pounds and there was significant rear squat when hooked up to the trailer. I was hoping that the weight distribution hitch would evenly distribute the tongue weight to eliminate this sag; it didn't. It was clear that the original suspension was tired and I replaced it with Dobinson's standard height suspension. That helped a bit, but the addition of the air bags leveled everything out nicely at 25psi.
The Aliner weighs about 2200 pounds dry and has a hitch weight of about 220 pounds. I tried towing with and without the weight distribution bars and felt no difference, so I decided to forgo them to reduce weight.
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That looks like the same Jayco 10Z that I have and pull all over CO. Granted even as small as it is when it is fully loaded and the cruiser has the whole family in it I had to shift into 4low to keep the speed over 30mph going over the taller passes. And I just installed some airbags a few months ago that helped keep her nice and level while towing. I would not feel comfortable towing any more than that with an 80.
Keep in mind that the "sag" is only the springs being compressed. The weight is exactly the same on the axle if heavier springs/airbags etc are used. May get an extra bit of caster with the rear squatted. You could have rigid struts installed in place and put 3 tons on the back- not "see" the weight but still have the same result- NOT enough weight on front and TOO much on the rear. I've hauled both ways )(light/heavy) and very dangerous. The weight distribution hitch raises the rear because it puts some of that weight onto the FRONT. "distributing" it onto BOTH axles . Whether or not weight distribution is supposed to stop sway or not- it does and is MUCH more stable. . Seems to me the system allows extra tongue weight and puts it onto both axles. I've had way excess tongue weight I've taken out with the bars at max adjustment (I'm sure past their recommended tension) and had it stable as as an empty trailer (1/2t older chevy) no 80.
This is my understanding too.
But will say, I've never needed to get into this in a lot of depth
If I remember correctly, Toyota specifically stated not to use weight distribution hitches with the 80. This would be due to the use of the LSPV in the brake system. When the rear suspension is compressed, the rear brake pressure is increased by the LSPV. Anything that counteracts that squat will decrease brake performance of the truck.
That being said, after having dealt with air bags long term, and a weight distribution hitch, I would go for the hitch. I never had much luck keeping the air bags from leaking long term. New, they worked great. But a weight distribution hitch works better once dialed in. And when you disconnect the trailer, you do not need to do anything else, ie adjust air pressure. IMHO of course...
That being said, after having dealt with air bags long term, and a weight distribution hitch, I would go for the hitch. I never had much luck keeping the air bags from leaking long term. New, they worked great. But a weight distribution hitch works better once dialed in. And when you disconnect the trailer, you do not need to do anything else, ie adjust air pressure. IMHO of course...
My two cents, Weight distribution hitch/bar do not control sway, a properly loaded trailer is essential in reducing sway.
If you think you need a weight distribution hitch, then the tow vehicle's rear suspension is not up to the task of towing said trailer ( you well never see a heavy duty commercial vehicle using weight distribution hitch)
Weight distribution hitch's were developed in the early to mid 20th century when Grandpa was towing his travel trailer with the family station wagon.
Now every trailer dealer well try to sale you one to make more profit.
With the popularity of pickup trucks and large suv's in the 21st century if you need a weight distribution hitch your trailer is to big or your tow Reg is to small.
The weight distribution hitch add's weight to the gross vehicle weigh and the rear axle weight. There not light by any means.
My bro runs a newer Toyota Sequoia with a 21' hybred trailer (light for its size, not overloaded). He has been towing campers for decades and loves weight distribution hitches. His set up DOES prevent sway. It has triangulated arms with adjustable brake tension pads, you set the tension on the brake pads with a bolt which can drastically change amount of sway at highway speed. YMMV
Everyone well have there preference. As I have mine, I have been towing for over 5 decades commercial and recreational, I would be welling to bet that light hybred trailer plus the load in the vehicle puts that Sequoia over the GVWR. Just sayin
Again you well not see a heavy duty commercial vehicle using a Weight distribution hitch. A weight distribution hitch is perfect for a vehicle that is not up to the task of pulling a larger trailer.
Again you well not see a heavy duty commercial vehicle using a Weight distribution hitch. A weight distribution hitch is perfect for a vehicle that is not up to the task of pulling a larger trailer.
sbman
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Weight distributing hitches are designed to transfer trailer weight forward on the tow vehicle's chassis. This reduces the nose of the vehicle bobbing up and down as the center of the weight vector is moved forward of the rear axle towards the center of the vehicle, they are not about 'leveling'. This provides an effect similar to towing a fifth wheel.
The handling difference with and without is tremendous. A weight distributing hitch combined with a sway bar significantly improves the safety factor of a tow as well as the handling of the overall rig. All larger trailers use them and manufacturers warn against NOT using them even with large pickups purpose built for towing. I occasionally tow a 3800 pound 22' RV trailer with a 400 pound tongue weight. It's a night and day difference with/without the weight distributing system. Without it, the nose of the cruiser bobs on each bump up and down and you can feel the steering system changing as the weight shifts. With it, that effect is completely eliminated even on the worst of California's terrible roads. The hitch system combined with a modern electric brake controller makes the tow a non issue.
The handling difference with and without is tremendous. A weight distributing hitch combined with a sway bar significantly improves the safety factor of a tow as well as the handling of the overall rig. All larger trailers use them and manufacturers warn against NOT using them even with large pickups purpose built for towing. I occasionally tow a 3800 pound 22' RV trailer with a 400 pound tongue weight. It's a night and day difference with/without the weight distributing system. Without it, the nose of the cruiser bobs on each bump up and down and you can feel the steering system changing as the weight shifts. With it, that effect is completely eliminated even on the worst of California's terrible roads. The hitch system combined with a modern electric brake controller makes the tow a non issue.
We can agree to disagree if you were towing a 22 foot RV trailer with your 97 anniversary edition Land Cruiser you are over Towing just my humble opinion of course it's going to ride better like I said weight distributing hitches are for vehicles that are over Towing again just my humble opinion.
Of course trailer manufacturers are going to warn against Towing without a weight distributing hitch it's all about reducing liability.
