Towing question

[Tachycardic]

I want to tow a travel trailer that weights 4000 pounds and has a tongue weight of 600 pounds. My hitch and weight distribution system are rated for 6000 pounds GVWR and 600 pound tongue weight.

How worried would you be about being at the max tongue weight? Thanks.

 

[BILT4ME]

I want to tow a travel trailer that weights 4000 pounds and has a tongue weight of 600 pounds. My hitch and weight distribution system are rated for 6000 pounds GVWR and 600 pound tongue weight.

How worried would you be about being at the max tongue weight? Thanks.

If your hitch truly has a design rate of 600 LB, then you should be fine as long as you'r not planning on going all Dukes of Hazzard with the trailer behind you. There is safety factor built in to take the TYPICAL excess loads (called a service factor)

The main thing is you will need to make sure the rear of your LC is able to handle the extra load. I carry a wheelchair lift on my truck that is 125 LB. The power chair that goes on it is 400 LB. That means my hitch is seeing 525 LB loading regularly. When I do, it makes the truck rear-heavy and it tends to let the tail wag the dog a bit. I added airbags to the rear to help with this and it made a huge difference. I have since gone to a set of OME heavies in the rear (and front) and it has helped with not being as bad, but the airbags are still needed for better stability.

If the GVWR is 6000 and your trailer is 4000, then your TOTAL together should not exceed the rated 6000. That would mean your tow vehicle is 2000 LB and that does not compute.

GVWR=Gross Vehicle Weight Rating which is EVERYTHING together. Fuel, people, trailer, stuff on trailer, stuff on roof.........


BTW, I believe the "factory" hitch on the 80 series is only rated at 500, not 600.

 

[jfz80]

Just once across town or regularly through the woods and over the stream to grandmas?

 

[Tachycardic]

Thanks for the reply. The hitch is rated at 5000 pounds and 500 pounds tongue weight, but is uprated to 6000/600 pounds when using a weight distribution system, which i have.

The towable trailer is a 20’ Airstream, so i plan to tow it once a month in and around the desert southwest and California.

It sounds like it will be too heavy, which is disappointing as I have read other forum members towing 5k trailers and such. Still, I don’t want to push my luck.

 

[-Spike-]

If the GVWR is 6000 and your trailer is 4000, then your TOTAL together should not exceed the rated 6000. That would mean your tow vehicle is 2000 LB and that does not compute.

GVWR=Gross Vehicle Weight Rating which is EVERYTHING together. Fuel, people, trailer, stuff on trailer, stuff on roof.........

That's not my understanding of GVWR, you may be thinking of any cargo (and/or possibly tongue weight, not sure on that) that is attached to a hitch, such as on a cargo rack. However, at least some states do count unlicensed trailer weight (such as a cement mixer or other equipment towed behind a vehicle, which don't require a separate license plate) when ticketing for being overloaded. This situation is usually only seen with commercial vehicles.

The GVWR of a trailer would be the total allowed weight of the trailer and cargo.


Gross vehicle weight rating - Wikipedia

"The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers."

 

[zapatius]

Flat land - go for it. If it's rated for 600 pounds on you're putting 600 pounds on it - should be good to go. Now, I wouldn't want it pushing me down Wolf Creek Pass or anything like that.

 

[-Spike-]

I want to tow a travel trailer that weights 4000 pounds and has a tongue weight of 600 pounds. My hitch and weight distribution system are rated for 6000 pounds GVWR and 600 pound tongue weight.

How worried would you be about being at the max tongue weight? Thanks.

Usually, you want to load a trailer so that your tongue weight is about 10% of the trailer weight. In your case that would be about 400 pounds. The 600 lb figure is probably a max for the tongue, but actual tongue weight will vary depending on how you load the stuff inside the trailer. This is something that many people are ignorant about that can lead to trouble- too much or too little tongue weight can and does cause driveability issues, such as swaying, which can lead to loss of control in some cases.

 

[Tachycardic]

The tongue weight came from Airstream’s brochure. I was surprised that it was 600 pounds as I always thought it was only 10-15% of the total trailer weight.

People have stated that you should tow no more than 80% of the rated tow capacity, but I wasn’t sure if that applied to tongue weight as well.

 

[ppc]

Assuming that the 4,000 lbs weight is dry, once you add water in the tanks, food, equipment and supplies the loaded weight of the trailer is going to hit the 5,500 lbs or more. Just because the hitch is rated for 6,000 doesn't mean that increases the towing limit of 5,000 of the vehicle. The ratings are determined on many factors, weight, tires, brakes, engine etc. It isn't what you can pull it also is what you can stop. Add weight for additional persons, gear, accessories, bumpers, winches, sliders and tongue weight you are going to exceed the 6,525 lbs GVWR or the GAVR of 3,970 of the rear axle of the LC. A stock 80 starts out at ~4,800 lbs.

Towing 4,000+ lbs through anything other than flat ground is going to be ugly. If you do get up to speed before a long grade like you would find on I40, if you get slowed by another vehicle or traffic you will never be able to get back up to speed. Then with a travel trailer you got take into account additional losses from the high profile of a travel trailer, windy conditions etc. Lastly you would be lucky to get 9 MPG or less on average.

 

[-Spike-]

The tongue weight came from Airstream’s brochure. I was surprised that it was 600 pounds as I always thought it was only 10-15% of the total trailer weight.

People have stated that you should tow no more than 80% of the rated tow capacity, but I wasn’t sure if that applied to tongue weight as well.

The tongue weight is not static. It depends on how the trailer is loaded. Their 600 pound number may be how it leaves the factory, it may be a maximum, it may be a recommendation, I'd want to read this brochure or preferably the owner's manual or talk to the manufacturer to know for sure. In any case, with a weight distribution hitch (properly used) you will avoid the typical issues of too much tongue weight because the weight will be distributed over both of your axles.

People state a lot of things. I state that the tow capacity already has a safety factor included, so that 80% figure is purely arbitrary, paranoia and guesswork, to be nice. Properly loaded, the manufacturer of your vehicle has stated that you are safe up to their capacity numbers. Those numbers are conservative, but not arbitrary.

All that being stated, a 4000 pound trailer is going to slow your truck right on down, regardless of how safe it is. Whether or not that's acceptable is purely on you.

I should add that before you tow a trailer, you should fully understand what's going on and how to use the equipment properly and in a safe manner.

 

[1911garand]

I tow quite a bit with my 80 (large boat and pop up camper). If I were up against a 600 lb tounge weight and 4000 lb trailer, I'd get a larger truck (Sequia, Suburban, etc...).

YMMV.

 

[Broski]

Just to clear, theirs three weights to consider when towing. 1) Gross vehicle weight rating 2) Rear axle weight rating 3) Combined vehicle weight rating

Then you have hitch rating and Trailer weight rating on top of that. In short there is a lot to consider to be safe when towing !!! JMHO
Cheers

 

[Howard705]

Weight Distributing Hitch and Good Brakes...
Lots of towing threads on here btw

 

[LC4LIFE]

Yes, I tow a lot too. For instance, my last 4600 miles has had 4100 miles of towing. I have a 21ft boat that weighs in right at 4300lbs. Anything heavier and I would have a different tow rig. I feel completely safe with the boat, but man, if it points uphill or there is anykind of wind, it just sucks. Slow and slower, and the mpg goes to $H!t. I pulled the boat 1800 miles in early June and about halfway through the trip I was sure I would own a 200 or GX460 very soon. I was simply tired of dealing with a heavy trailer on the back of the 80.

 

[Tachycardic]

Thanks for the replies. I've decided to go lighter...3300 pounds dry and 390 on the tongue weight. I'll still use a weight distribution system though.

 

[coax]

I think you'll be much happier with that weight range. I just bought a lighter travel trailer that ends up being about 3000 loaded with 350 tongue weight and its still pretty darn slow.

 

[jpoole]

Agree with above and will emphasize that where you go with the trailer really impacts the performance. We just finished a 2600 mile road trip pulling a 3kish pop-up with our stock '97 (including tire size). Most of that trip was in relatively flat land and it was a comfortable experience throughout. Air bags and a good brake controller/trailer brakes are worth having in place.

When running the same combination in the nearby "Smoky" mountains it's a pretty different experience and I'm pulling over when possible on climbs to let followers get around us. Roads in the Smokies can get steep but the altitude is not a big factor and I can only imagine how this rig will suffer in higher elevation areas like the rockies...

 

[richmondbob]

How should I put this... do NOT ****about when towing.

1983 Jeep Wagoneer day I lost her RIP

• richmondbob
• Sep 21, 2018

^^ that's my restored '83 Jeep Wagoneer Ltd. with a V8, refreshed drivetrain, upgraded braking and newer OEM suspension. It was restored with road trips and towing in mind and I'd been towing trailers for five years prior to this s***show. This happened on flat ground and, according to the police's interview of 20+ witnesses on the highway, the trailer went sideways (not a little but completely) without warning. The only reason I kept it under control long enough for others to get away from us was my Wagoneer's tow rating exceeded the combined load and we had the proper towing setup. The only thing that kept us alive was not overloading the towing setup and Toledo steel.

vv And this after the regular trailer I towed was 5' longer and 400 lbs heavier.

1983 Jeep Wagoneer with 21' Aero travel trailer

• richmondbob
• Sep 21, 2018

That was a four-year restoration shot to s***, couple years of physio/chiro/training recovery and a big headache with the insurance company.

I bought the 80 cuz it was the only non-Jeep I ever wanted but knew I wouldn't be towing anything larger than my M416 or landscaping trailer with it.

The 80-series is not a proper tow vehicle but the Airstream is a beautiful trailer, so if you want to use it do what @1911garand and @LC4LIFE have suggested and get a proper full-size pickup as a tow rig.

Good luck and safe travels.

 

[jpoole]

@richmondbob Thanks for sharing. That must have been a really big setback for you on a number of levels. I'm glad you lived to share the experience. It can be hard to appreciate or remember how tricky towing can get when it's relatively benign the large majority of the time but your post highlights how important the extreme situations are.

What were the factors that lead to the trailer going sideways? Wind, tire/mechanical failure, evasive maneuvers?

I did some towing with an almost identical Wagoneer to the one in your pictures and as I recall it was a solid tow rig for the sub 4000 pound loads I pulled with it.

 

[YMT]

Some other things to consider.

Tow rating is based on a new vehicle, with factory specifications. Adjusting tires, drivetrain, lift, armor, etc. can vastly affect tow performance, as well as aged/worn parts.

Another factor not listed yet is wheelbase and overall tow vehicle length. The longer the wheelbase of the tow vehicle, the less susceptible it is to sway, compared to shorter wheelbase vehicles. Speed and wind play factors as well with sway. Also, when a trailer weighs more than the tow vehicle, this can increase the chance of sway. This is my opinion- I wouldn't to a trailer much longer that the length of the FJ80, while also considering weight capacities.