Towing my Jeep with my 2016 Land Cruiser

[eatSleepWoof]

I am asking multiple sources in an effort to see what information i get consistently. I went to one trailer sales place and had a guy tell me I dont need a trailer brake controller and can just hook it up to the 7 pin and be fine. This thread and a conversation with etrailers.com staff totally contradicted that.

asking/searching multiple sources and seeing what is consistent seems to be the best way to find out what I need to know when I don't know much about the subject.

You are probably getting different answers because there are different types of trailer brakes out there, and folks are speaking about the type they are used to. Also note that you were dealing with a salesperson (a professional that's not exactly known for honest, knowledgeable answers) and that "be fine" and "working brakes" are very different end results.

1. Surge brakes. These are actuated with centrifugal force and do not require a trailer brake controller in the vehicle.
2. Electric brakes. These are actuated via an electrical signal fed from the vehicle's brake controller to the trailer harness, to the trailer.

#2 is generally a better, safer setup; also much more common. But it does require a brake controller.

For a business that rents trailers, having surge brakes is the better option simply because very few numbers of their customers will have a trailer brake controller. Without that, the trailer's electric brakes won't work. However, the surge brakes will work regardless of the tow-vehicle's setup, so that's an option that'll work for their entire customer base, even if it won't be quite as good as electric brakes.

 

[RandyCSVT]

You are probably getting different answers because there are different types of trailer brakes out there, and folks are speaking about the type they are used to.

1. Surge brakes. These are actuated with centrifugal force and do not require a trailer brake controller in the vehicle.
2. Electric brakes. These are actuated via an electrical signal fed from the vehicle's brake controller to the trailer harness, to the trailer.

#2 is generally a better, safer setup; also much more common. But it does require a brake controller.

For a business that rents trailers, having surge brakes is the better option simply because very few numbers of their customers will have a trailer brake controller. Without that, the trailer's electric brakes won't work. However, the surge brakes will work regardless of the tow-vehicle's setup, so that's an option that'll work for their entire customer base, even if it won't be quite as good as electric brakes.

I was looking at buying a car hauler trailer with electric brakes and the sales guy was telling me I don't need a brake controller. After talking to that guy, I am double checking anything I hear or see about trailering.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I was looking at buying a car hauler trailer with electric brakes and the sales guy was telling me I don't need a brake controller. After talking to that guy, I am double checking anything I hear or see about trailering.

I believe some vehicles also come with a trailer brake controller from the factory. He may have been thinking of one of those. But by and large, I'd be double checking everything that guy says.

 

[linuxgod]

If you use a trailer, make sure the vehicle is over the axle and that the tongue weight doesn't exceed the capability of your vehicle (850#... less with people in your cruiser). I saw someone parked nearby pulling a rusted FJ40 on a trailer with their 1st gen explorer last weekend. I should've taken a photo but it was pouring rain. The FJ was all the way at the front of the trailer and the explorer was resting on the rear bump stops with the front suspension fully extended... and that was parked.

So yeah remember to slide the Jeep forward or back on the trailer as if it's a lever to adjust the tongue weight on your cruiser. Physics... it's not just a good idea, it's the law

 

[RandyCSVT]

If you use a trailer, make sure the vehicle is over the axle and that the tongue weight doesn't exceed the capability of your vehicle (850#... less with people in your cruiser). I saw someone parked nearby pulling a rusted FJ40 on a trailer with their 1st gen explorer last weekend. I should've taken a photo but it was pouring rain. The FJ was all the way at the front of the trailer and the explorer was resting on the rear bump stops with the front suspension fully extended... and that was parked.

So yeah remember to slide the Jeep forward or back on the trailer as if it's a lever to adjust the tongue weight on your cruiser. Physics... it's not just a good idea, it's the law

I was going to buy one of the weigh safe adjustable ball mounts with built in tongue weight scale, but had a few folks tell me it was kind of gimmicky and not needed. Also read some amazon reviews of the built in scale failing within a year.

Are you setting up a tongue weight scale every time you load up your trailer or just making sure not to overload the trailer and eyeballing tongue weight by ensuring the load is distributed evenly and the trailer is level (angled coupler down would indicate too much tongue weight, angled coupler up too little tongue weight).

 

[rusty87]

Once you get the tongue weight correct, mark the position of the Jeep so you can get it back in the same spot. The angle of the coupler has no bearing on whether the tongue weight is correct.

 

[RandyCSVT]

Once you get the tongue weight correct, mark the position of the Jeep so you can get it back in the same spot. The angle of the coupler has no bearing on whether the tongue weight is correct.

so are you using a tongue weight scale every time you load something different on your trailer?

 

[rusty87]

so are you using a tongue weight scale every time you load something different on your trailer?

No, but it’s not my first time. I’ve screwed it up enough times to have an idea when the tongue is too light or too heavy.

If my first time towing was at near max capacity, across multiple states, and with my family on board, then I would buy what ever it took to do it safety.

 

[RandyCSVT]

No, but it’s not my first time. I’ve screwed it up enough times to have an idea when the tongue is too light or too heavy.

If my first time towing was at near max capacity, across multiple states, and with my family on board, then I would buy what ever it took to do it safety.

How can you tell without a scale? I plan on using a scale (especially for big trips with the family), but would like to know how people can just tell without one. The way I currently understand it. Weight too far back/not enough tongue weight leads to trailer swaying while driving. Too much tongue weight/too far forward overloads the rear suspension, lift the front suspension and makes turning with the trailer/controlling the trailer difficult. Am I missing anything?

 

[TeCKis300]

I would be hesitant to say that your main goal is to try to make sure you don't overload tongue weight. That strategy gets people new to towing in trouble. At the same time, while the cruiser has deep reserves of capacity, recognize your cruiser does not have infinite capacity. One shouldn't be expecting a tow vehicle to carry a full family along with heavy gear, and tow significant weights. This on top of potential armor and accessories installed that can take much of the payload capacity.

That said, what you're proposing to tow is not especially heavy. It's well within the capability of the cruiser. I wouldn't bother with a tongue weight scale.

For just about any standard car trailer, you'll want to load the Jeep nose first (engine forward). Front tire fully against the wheel stops. That likely is going to be just fine. Expect the tow vehicle rear end to take a set. ~2-3" would not be unexpected. If it's egregiously low, use 4x4 wood to block against the wheel stops and pull the tire of the jeep against that to shift it rearward just a bit.

One thing not said that is hugely important is to make sure the tow ball is horizontally, as close to the rear bumper as possible. Don't use a drop hitch that projects the ball out further than necessary. Some adjustable drop hitches will project the ball out inches more than needed. This causes any tongue weight to have more leverage on the tow vehicle, and front axle. It's commonly said that wheelbase helps towing stabiltiy - it's really about wheelbase to rear overhang ratio, which is affected by the location of the ball relative to the rear axle.

Other things you can do is increase your tire pressures, particularly the rears, to add a bit more sidewall stability. ~5 PSI should do it.

 

[TeCKis300]

For those set on knowing tongue weight, there's some interesting smart devices out there that can indirectly measure tongue weight. And also trailer weight, weight distribution, and even payload in vehicle, among other metrics.

I've heard they are pretty darn accurate when cross checked with scales. And reasonably priced ~$100.

Look into the Curt Better Weigh. Which itself is a close product or licensed from the preceding HaulGauge.

It's a smart OBD-II device that uses information from car sensors, along with some built into itself, to effectively measure weights based on acceleration/inclination combined with voodoo math tricks. I was looking into it but it's not as effective when used with active suspensions, i.e. AHC.

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[CharlieS]

How can you tell without a scale? I plan on using a scale (especially for big trips with the family), but would like to know how people can just tell without one. The way I currently understand it. Weight too far back/not enough tongue weight leads to trailer swaying while driving. Too much tongue weight/too far forward overloads the rear suspension, lift the front suspension and makes turning with the trailer/controlling the trailer difficult. Am I missing anything?

You're not missing anything, but you may be overcomplicating a relatively simple thing.

 

[coleAK]

I was looking at buying a car hauler trailer with electric brakes and the sales guy was telling me I don't need a brake controller. After talking to that guy, I am double checking anything I hear or see about trailering.

Many new trucks and the large SUVs come with a factory Installed brake controller option. As a rule I double check what most salesman tell me.

As for brake controllers I’ve used the Curt tri-plex the last 4 years, before that I had a tekonsha for about 10 years. Although the controller Install plug isn’t all that easy to get to on the 200 series it was just plug and play, no wire splicing required. I pull a ~6800 lb camper 5-10k miles a summer all over Alaska and north west Canada.

Trailer Brake Controller Connector

Darby Darrow and bstein have posted the location of the brake controller connector. I just installed mine and took some pictures. My Land Cruiser is a 2008 which came from the factory with a seven pin trailer connector at the rear bumper. First I removed the bottom panel below the...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[linuxgod]

I was going to buy one of the weigh safe adjustable ball mounts with built in tongue weight scale, but had a few folks tell me it was kind of gimmicky and not needed. Also read some amazon reviews of the built in scale failing within a year.

Are you setting up a tongue weight scale every time you load up your trailer or just making sure not to overload the trailer and eyeballing tongue weight by ensuring the load is distributed evenly and the trailer is level (angled coupler down would indicate too much tongue weight, angled coupler up too little tongue weight).

I have my trailer set up so I know within 100# where I'm at every time without weighing, probably within 50# really. I will sometimes shift weight around inside, moving our bikes around or shifting some firewood to the front or rear depending on where I'm at. Water in the fresh or waste tanks changes things for me as well, so it's a bit of art as well as science. I did weigh it with a Sureline scale someone loaned me early on, and I've taken it to a weigh station when towing and weighed both hitched and unhitched as well. If you tow a lot a scale is worth buying, but you can use a bathroom scale if you have a 2x4 available.

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-how-to-determine-trailer-tongue-weight.aspx

As far as estimating goes - if you have a stock vehicle with factory OEM springs they are 170#/in. So measure your rear hub-to-fender height (not fender-to-ground as your tires will compress) before loading and then afterwards and multiply the difference in inches x 170 (or really x 200) and that should get you *close* to the tongue weight. Note I say close because tongue is not over the axle but behind it, so as @TeCKis300 points out it's a fulcrum where the longer the overhang the more leverage and the less weight it takes to compress the same amount. If you have heavier springs then this calculation obviously varies.

Side note: if you're towing a uhaul trailer then it's pretty simple, but in my case my trailer has a weight distribution hitch installed which actually shifts weight off the rear axle and to the front.

 

[RandyCSVT]

Thanks for the explanations. I try not to ok overcomplicate things, but am the type that can go a bit too deep when researching new hobbies and purchases.

My 8" drop hitch and ball showed up from Amazon. They are both rated for 10k pounds (won't be towing that much, but it was this or 5k lbs).

From the ground to the top of the ball I am measuring at 19.5 inches (currently on a 2" though dog lift with 33's). I plan on getting 34's next, so I assume that will jump to 20" from the ground to the top of the ball. Is that an ok height or do I need to order a 10" drop hitch?

 

[RandyCSVT]

I am guessing with some weight on it, the ball will drop a bit and I should be at a reasonable height to tow a uhaul car trailer. An eventual car trailer I would buy, and the occasional travel trailer I may rent.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks for the explanations. I try not to ok overcomplicate things, but am the type that can go a bit too deep when researching new hobbies and purchases.

My 8" drop hitch and ball showed up from Amazon. They are both rated for 10k pounds (won't be towing that much, but it was this or 5k lbs).

From the ground to the top of the ball I am measuring at 19.5 inches (currently on a 2" though dog lift with 33's). I plan on getting 34's next, so I assume that will jump to 20" from the ground to the top of the ball. Is that an ok height or do I need to order a 10" drop hitch?

IIRC the instructions for my BlueOx histch said the ball should be 1" or 1.5" taller than the coupler on the trailer when the trailer is level (so you must raise your trailer nose 1.5" in order to hitch up), not actually level.

It depends on your trailer coupler height when the trailer is level as well as the type/size of the fitting you attach the ball to. I'm on 34s and I needed a 10.5" drop to get the ball ~3-4" below the receiver hitch height because the Blue Ox ball mount is kinda tall as it supports the weight distribution bars.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks for the explanations. I try not to ok overcomplicate things, but am the type that can go a bit too deep when researching new hobbies and purchases.

I commend you for doing your research and asking questions. We were all new to it once and the learning curve can be steep. Towing can be straightforward. Part of it comes form the confidence of having done enough due diligence. I think most of us understand that getting it wrong can have serious consequences to injury or logistics, especially as you're considering a longer trip with family in tow.

 

[GordJ]

.

1. Surge brakes. These are actuated with centrifugal force and do not require a trailer brake controller in the vehicle.
2. Electric brakes. These are actuated via an electrical signal fed from the vehicle's brake controller to the trailer harness, to the trailer.

#2 is generally a better, safer setup; also much more common. But it does require a brake controller.

For a business that rents trailers, having surge brakes is the better option simply because very few numbers of their customers will have a trailer brake controller. Without that, the trailer's electric brakes won't work. However, the surge brakes will work regardless of the tow-vehicle's setup, so that's an option that'll work for their entire customer base, even if it won't be quite as good as electric brakes.

Because this is the internet and it’s acceptable to derail I thought that I’d say that my surge brakes don’t have any relationship with centrifugal force. The actuator is a sliding receiver that applies hydraulic pressure the the brakes when the forward momentum of the trailer pushes against the tow vehicle. When the brakes on the tow vehicle brakes the trailer pushes against the actuator, the harder the push the more pressure applied.

 

[RandyCSVT]

Thanks for the feedback. I measured again and the ball was 18.5" off the ground with current tires (19" when I switch to 34's). I went by Uhaul and measured the coupler on their car trailers. This hitch will work for their auto transport rentals, which is all i intend to use for the first few tows. Looks like I have everything I need as is. I was going to go ahead and install the redarc brake controller, but will hold off for now since it wont be needed until i start using a trailer with electric brakes.

I appreciate all of the advice and hope this thread helps somebody in my shoes down the road.