Total Chaos upper control arms

[Desert Yeti]

You are correct on that one, but you will see one of their Dealers . Metal-tech 4x4 is a dealer and CM11 is looking strong for us to be there. However not with a 100, most likely our FJ Cruiser w/ the Total Chaos long travel kit on it. Construction quality is the same.

The other thing you will not see is Total Chaos commenting on a forum. (company policy) Its up to their dealers to do so. Since there have been a few comments made about them based on photographs and not actually handling them we (all of us) need more information.

First a little history for those that don't know much about TC. As a company they build and sell ONLY performance suspension products THEY build and nothing else. They don't even build shocks, only the arm systems and supporting products. They are considered the leader in their industry and the ones who innovate most of the new IFS products. They don't even do installs. TC has been at it over 10 yrs strong and Matt the owner and engineer has over 20yrs designing and building performance suspension.


Total Chaos 100 UCA's:

These are new so I called Total Chaos to get the full back story on them. Here is the cliff notes:

1. Prototype's bench built using OEM UCA's to build the fixture. Then the propitiatory TC components were used to build the beta's.

2. The truck used to test fit them came in w/ brand new King Long travel shocks that had just been installed to work with the JT product. (This just happened to be the truck that was available)

3. The TC arms range of motion (i.e. travel) exceeds what the stock CV's and tie rods can handle. The only limitation is the OEM parts, IF you have longer shocks.

4. The correct custom taper adapter is used at the top of the spindle, it drops in w/ no movement before torquing it down. This is custom for the 100 and not the same as the common 05+ Tacoma's etc. taper available off the shelf.

Total Chaos specializes in UCA's they have a very large product line in doing so and custom make all their components to fit. For example they have proprietary bushings made so they can use over sized inner sleeves for the mounting bolt. Their bushing cups are a full 1/4 thick and the ends where the bushing hat's sit fully support the bushing. The list goes on and they don't sell off their raw components to others.

TC does all development, testing and production of their arms in house. Its a bit odd to explain TC parts being less expensive. In other product lines like the +05 Tacoma/FJC UCA's (we sell for $650) they tend to be $100-200 more than others due to the quality they put into the parts.

Cheers!

Mark

So long story short, you owe me a dollar?

I'm not bashing TC. They make great stuff. My brothers race taco has a TC front end on it. They make great stuff. I haven't held the TC UCA, I haven't used it and I haven't been called back yet to let me know that they are available. Last I heard they were on the way to the powder coater


From my understanding Carl's UCA's have a different geometry than "OEM" and allow more travel due to this as well as the uni-ball. not only due to the uni-ball. If this is incorrect, please let me know. From the photos of the TC UCA, it appears that the uni-ball is mounted in the center of the tube and braced just like all of their other UCA's


Does TC actually have proprietary uni-balls? That seems a little far-fetched? I don't know what else could be proprietary in a UCA. It's tube and a uni-ball...

 

[5Cruiser]

If you were to install an aftermarket arm to get more travel, should one remove the front sway bar or use disconnects? I had the front bar off my runner and did not have an issue on the highway. How does the 100 fair with the bar removed and is it a no brainer to remove it with the new extended travel from new arms?

 

[2000UZJ]

If you were to install an aftermarket arm to get more travel, should one remove the front sway bar or use disconnects? I had the front bar off my runner and did not have an issue on the highway. How does the 100 fair with the bar removed and is it a no brainer to remove it with the new extended travel from new arms?

It's not that bad either, I had mine off for a while, installed a new one and been having some issues so I'll be removing it again.

 

[spressomon]

I didn't like how mine handled, or didn't more appropriately , on the highway with the front anti-sway bar removed. Off road sans sway bar is a big improvement however.

Gotta get busy on those front anti-sway bar disconnects.

 

[Skidoo]

I didn't like how mine handled, or didn't more appropriately , on the highway with the front anti-sway bar removed. Off road sans sway bar is a big improvement however.

Gotta get busy on those front anti-sway bar disconnects.

Spresso, Do you think the front would be improved by extending sway bar links? It makes a big difference for the rear, but I haven't looked to see if there is room.

 

[LT]

So long story short, you owe me a dollar?

I'm not bashing TC. They make great stuff. My brothers race taco has a TC front end on it. They make great stuff. I haven't held the TC UCA, I haven't used it and I haven't been called back yet to let me know that they are available. Last I heard they were on the way to the powder coater


From my understanding Carl's UCA's have a different geometry than "OEM" and allow more travel due to this as well as the uni-ball. not only due to the uni-ball. If this is incorrect, please let me know. From the photos of the TC UCA, it appears that the uni-ball is mounted in the center of the tube and braced just like all of their other UCA's


Does TC actually have proprietary uni-balls? That seems a little far-fetched? I don't know what else could be proprietary in a UCA. It's tube and a uni-ball...

The placement of the uniball can only be on one spot and that is in the factory position (the cup that houses the unibearing can be tilted to allow for greater caster which is what Total Chaos does). If it was relocated to a different spot then your entire caster and camber would be thrown off. The UCA has two basic functions 1.) They allow your caster to be adjusted back to factory specs plus more with larger tires. 2.) The uniball design allows for a greater range of movement in the suspension travel. Think of your lower links that are made from bushings, they only allow so much twist. Now install a heim joint or johny joint that allows for greater twist allow your rear axle to flex more, it is the same theory behind the uniball. How the tubes are place in relation to the uniball is just a different design, the JT ones mimic the factory UCA lines more than the Total Chaos UCA's.

The Total Chaos uniball is not proprietary to them but they were the first to integrate into aftermarket OEM application UCA's. However they do use the highest quality unibearing from FK made specifically for Total Chaos. What Total Chaos does different from the rest is bushing they have made. They are stamped Total Chaos and the inner sleeve that goes inside the bushing is machined.

If you were to install an aftermarket arm to get more travel, should one remove the front sway bar or use disconnects? I had the front bar off my runner and did not have an issue on the highway. How does the 100 fair with the bar removed and is it a no brainer to remove it with the new extended travel from new arms?

If you would like to maximize the amount of suspension travel then removing the sway bar would be optimal. To help compensate for reduced body roll (that is a factor without a sway bar) is to upgrade your shocks such as the Kings that are designed to soak up more extreme maneuvers on and off the road. On our FJ Cruiser we run Sway Away coilovers and removed the sway bar a long time ago and never looked back.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

To remove the front sway you have to remove a T-bar.

 

[wildsmith]

On my truck with longer shocks and OEM upper control arms the limiting factor is at the bushing end the arm will contact the frame preventing further droop.

Carl pointed out that on his arms "the tube intersects the very top of the bushing cup, so it offsets the arm upward, making more clearance below for the frame so it does not hit."

Do the TC arms have the same offset or are they central and would then probably have the same limitation as my OEM upper arms?

 

[LT]

On my truck with longer shocks and OEM upper control arms the limiting factor is at the bushing end the arm will contact the frame preventing further droop.

Carl pointed out that on his arms "the tube intersects the very top of the bushing cup, so it offsets the arm upward, making more clearance below for the frame so it does not hit."

Do the TC arms have the same offset or are they central and would then probably have the same limitation as my OEM upper arms?

Read Mark's original post. Total Chaos had a 100 series with the King shocks and the Total Chaos UCA's have more travel than the stock cv shaft and steering will allow.

 

[wildsmith]

Read Mark's original post. Total Chaos had a 100 series with the King shocks and the Total Chaos UCA's have more travel than the stock cv shaft and steering will allow.

I did read that post but it only answers my question if I make some assumptions. A simple yes or no would have done the trick

 

[Desert Yeti]

To remove the front sway you have to remove a T-bar.

Haven't started pulling it yet, but just looking at it can't you just unbolt each and and the mounts, rotate it 180 degrees and slide/weasel it out. At most I might have to remove a wheel? Am I missing something?


I guess there's always the sawzall method as well

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Nope....one T-bar's gotta come out. Boo, huh?

 

[re_guderian]

Nope....one T-bar's gotta come out. Boo, huh?

they're not that hard to remove...

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

What? The sway or the T-bar?

 

[re_guderian]

t-bars. 3 bolts and a hammer... Not that this is something you'd do trailside before a run, but for a one time deal it's not that big of a thing...

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

True...though it's responsible to point out the extra step to folks. I've found very few who knew the sway doesn't come out on it's own...like the above post which is typical.

 

[highonpottery]

does anyone know if TC stopped their long-travel 100 series research at just the UCA, or are they planning on going further and doing a real LT setup like they've done for other Toyotas? or are there still too many limiting factors like CV angles/length issues, tie rods, matching rear susp. width/travel, market for such items, etc?

 

[helocat]

On my truck with longer shocks and OEM upper control arms the limiting factor is at the bushing end the arm will contact the frame preventing further droop.

Carl pointed out that on his arms "the tube intersects the very top of the bushing cup, so it offsets the arm upward, making more clearance below for the frame so it does not hit."

Do the TC arms have the same offset or are they central and would then probably have the same limitation as my OEM upper arms?

Yes the TC product clears any obstruction allowing the suspension with long travel shocks to get full travel. The arms will move beyond what a 100 CV can safely be operated at. I understand TC is a new name in the 100 market, but they are the originator of this design for OE applications. TC would not build a product that limits travel in anyway.

John, we are vendors of the JT product as well. However we have not had it in our hands or installed a set yet. I am not going to make assumptions based on a photo so cant say too much how they compare. We have offered them to our 100 suspension customers but have not sold any yet in the last two years. Key hold up for most customers has been the $1k price tag. Being a TC dealer we stock and sell allot of TC arms and long travel kits. We also install allot of them as well. There is no performance left on the table with any TC product.

Folks remember the key limitations to an IFS truck is what the CV's can take. Once you reach that point nothing can be done unless the CV's are changed. One can stretch the upper and lower arms for a long travel system that is commonly done for Tacoma's, FJ Cruisers etc. However with the torsion bar on the 100 this limits what is available to try to build a long travel set up.

Now if someone wants to bring their 100 to our shop for awhile I can take a look and see if we can put new suspension mounts on, then install an already available long travel kit, hybrid it for the 100 spindle and do a coil over conversion. We are kind of doing this right now to our company FJC moving the front IFS suspension forward 2". Ton of work but in the end we can fit 37" tires on a 4" IFS long travel lift. (putting on 36"s and having a pile of spare CV's on hand! )

Shoot why we are at it we can put a long travel kit on the rear. Here is shot of an FJC with what we can do:

 

[helocat]

does anyone know if TC stopped their long-travel 100 series research at just the UCA, or are they planning on going further and doing a real LT setup like they've done for other Toyotas? or are there still too many limiting factors like CV angles/length issues, tie rods, matching rear susp. width/travel, market for such items, etc?

Yes its stopped. TC is not going to make a long travel kit for the 100, I ask again yesterday when I was talking with them about the uppers.

This is why I posted my last post. I am curious if we can move the mounts and use and FJC/Tacoma/4 Runner long travel kit, with custom shock/upper UCA towers. It would be a big project!

 

[r2m]

I wouldn't mind if I was able to even move the front suspension forward and inch or two!
Meaning one would have to move the dif, get longer tb's, new A arms.