Don't call it a come back
TORT: The ONSC Rant Thread (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnVee
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
Don't call it a come back
Maybe. Also ignorance and complacency and poor voting habits of most Americans plays a big role. We keep paying and the companies keep charging. And the elected officials keep screwing us, right to our face, and getting rich.
Not going to debate the ignorance or poor voting habits of Americans as that is a belief and a feeling so there is no point there.
The we keep paying and the companies keep charging is exactly why there needs to be regulation. No one is going to not pay what the health companies are charging because it is your health and life we are talking about. This is why the free market fails in this sector because health companies know if they keep their prices similar to the competition they will all make money no matter what.
Elected officials keep screwing us and getting rich…. Yes, they do and we allow it because we also don’t call for more oversight of the government. Any time an independent force tries to keep tabs on our government for us, we the people meet them with hostility for the most part.
Also, millions of people getting 'free' health care every single year has to be paid for by someone. Before we cross that bridge of telling private companies how much to charge for a good or service, lets get the free loaders paying their fair share.
That would be nice if everyone would and could pay their own part but the amount that can’t is actually very little and really has next to no impact on the price you or I pay for our healthcare. Most of that is written off as bad debt and charity and gives them a tax break anyway. The Non-Profit hospitals (which in itself is a laugh and just a way they managed to bribe someone to get on that list to not pay any taxes in the first place) just gets absorbed and paid for by government assistance or paid out of the fund that would have gone towards taxes anyway. This in itself is bad but again doesn’t really effect the actually price that comes down to you after the insurance pays theirs.
Who was the leader in the quick Covid vaccine response and where did we fly all the critical Ebola and Zika cases to? Who pays that DARPA bill so we can fast track vaccines for the rest of the world? Someone has to pay for that. Let's get EVERYONE paying into the system. No more free lunches.
Those are all government spending which you could lump in with taxes, which wouldn’t effect your out of pocket health payments at all, and since we always run a high deficit spending most of that isn’t even passed on to the tax payer. Also just about everything in there can also be attributed to all the European powers. Hell the #1 vaccine that is used by poor countries around the world and sent there mostly free or at an extreme discount is Astrazenica and that is British. We treated 11 Ebola patients during the West Africa Ebola Outbreak…. Even if none of them were insured and none of them paid a dime and all the price was passed on to the citizens of this country, none of us would have even noticed, not even a penny per citizen. Which I think is a great price to ensure Ebola got squashed and didn’t run rampant through Africa to reach our shores and do the same here.
Bottom line……. The reason health care costs so much in the US is because we lazily let it. By ourselves we have zero bargaining power with these health care companies, hell major hospitals and health insurance companies have very little bargaining power. Only way it will change is if the government steps in.
I tried to stay out but finally had to comment even though these discussions are much better around a campfire.
It's ridiculous you can't get a firm price for a fixed procedure before it happens. What other industry do you sign over a blank check before getting a service?
We don't all agree on how but can probably all agree some changes to the system to lower cost and improve access to healthcare would be a good thing.
Not true. Don't pretend there's a free market in health care that's not working. The current insurance based system means the consumer is disconnected from the price with no incentive to shop around or reduce cost. Like free markets or not, that's not a free market.
It's ridiculous you can't get a firm price for a fixed procedure before it happens. What other industry do you sign over a blank check before getting a service?
You've got to be kidding, it won't be out of pocket right now but we'll pay for deficit spending or the next generation will. Debt doesn't just go away.
The government has a test case and has demonstrated exactly what it would look like if "the government steps in" It's called the VA.
We don't all agree on how but can probably all agree some changes to the system to lower cost and improve access to healthcare would be a good thing.
Last edited:
Poor voting habits are well documented. People, by the tens of millions, fall for the empty promises of all politicians or think its a popularity contest or don't research or care. Way too few are concerned with anything past their nose. That is well documented fact.
Back to your original issue....did you not know what your deductible/max out of pocket clause is with your insurance? Just asking. I'd have to research mine too.
The intentional confusion inflicted upon us by the insurance companies and hospitals/networks they are intertwined with is the problem. Pay for this, won't pay for that...go to this doctor, not that one, pay a percentage of this, doughnut hole this, it's this much over here and much more expensive over here....deductible this, co pay this, we'll cover this medicine but not this one, is it better to pay cash and get a discount? Is there a generic?!
It's almost impossible to shop around or understand the 10 page bill for a simple doctor visit.
Back to your original issue....did you not know what your deductible/max out of pocket clause is with your insurance? Just asking. I'd have to research mine too.
The intentional confusion inflicted upon us by the insurance companies and hospitals/networks they are intertwined with is the problem. Pay for this, won't pay for that...go to this doctor, not that one, pay a percentage of this, doughnut hole this, it's this much over here and much more expensive over here....deductible this, co pay this, we'll cover this medicine but not this one, is it better to pay cash and get a discount? Is there a generic?!
It's almost impossible to shop around or understand the 10 page bill for a simple doctor visit.
Not even sure where to start with that. Yes there is a free market in health care. The fact that there is no a single payer system that everyone pays into deems it a free market. You are free to use the company insurance and choose from their plans, you are free to reject to not use that health care, you are free to find other health plans, you are free to pick which doctor and hospital you go to and you are free to not use health insurance at all and pay out of pocket.
Your insurance carrier is free to pick which hospitals and centers they include in their plan as well as hospitals are free to not use some insurance providers. Hospitals and other health entities are free to use certain companies, drug makers, tech makes, etc.... based on their prices and bargaining power, which is not much.
So yes there is a free market when it comes to health car it is just different from buying a car. Don't try to twist words or meanings.
You've got to be kidding, it won't be out of pocket right now but we'll pay for deficit spending or the next generation will. Debt doesn't just go away.
This part has absolutely zero/nothing/nada to do with what your out of pocket health care costs are right now. You can make a case that it may be paid through taxes at a later date but taxes, deficit spending and the national debt do not effect what your paying for blood pressure medicine right now so why even bring it up?
The government has a test case and has demonstrated exactly what it would look like if "the government steps in" It's called the VA.
And every other 1st world country has a test also that has worked fine for a long time. I'm not saying i'm advocating for universal health care but the government in these countries regulates the cost which is what makes health care cost less. One mediocre example we do here really has no leg to stand on it with the wealth of other data from countries that governments and citizens made regulation of health care costs work. Bringing up the VA just advocates for the government actually doing some regulation. The fact that we let the VA take care of our soldiers like this is sad, but again we let it happen. Do you want to demand more out of our government and have them actually work for us like they should or are you just happy sitting back and saying well they aren't doing as good with the VA...... I guess we just won't demand they do better and also do better at taking care of the rest of us?
Again the reason health care costs so much is because they can get away with charging whatever they want here vs other countries where these multinational companies provide the exact same service in. You guys are stuck on instances that have to do with taxes and government write offs. That has nothing to do with what you pay today when you go and see your doctor or get a procedure done.
That is what my original post was about.
I do know what my max deductible is, but it only kicks in to go that high over a certain point on my plan. Which I didn't expect this one to hit. I've got some crappy answers from them as of yet as to why my request to know if it was going to be that much more expensive than all the other procedures i've done in the last few years wasn't honored.
I'm not the one twisting the meaning. No, i's not 100% regulated but should we discuss the amount of government regulation in health care? It's far from a true free market.
This is why these discussions are better in person, it would actually be an interesting discussion instead of throwing snippets back and forth.
Only because you implied a certain cost didn't matter because it would just go into deficit spending. Debt is a real problem.
"you guys" aren't stuck on what you think I am. This is why I usually stay out of these discussions online.
I figured you'd agree with the part where I also complained about not being able to get an answer about cost before a service. I've experienced that too. There's no excuse for that and it's frustrating.
If you challenge that bill and we all start to do the same it might be a small move in the right direction. I hope you have good luck and can get somewhere with them.
Last edited:
I'm not the one twisting the meaning. No, i's not 100% regulated but should we discuss the amount of government regulation in health care? It's far from a true free market.
This is why these discussions are better in person, it would actually be an interesting discussion instead of throwing snippets back and forth.
There is regulation but it mostly has to do with procedures, licensing and other redtape etc…… very little to do with cost, in fact one of the only sectors where cost is somewhat regulated is Medicare and the same procedures done under medicare is far cheaper than what you or I would pay under our insurance. Another feather in the cap of regulating costs.
Only because you implied a certain cost didn't matter because it would just go into deficit spending. Debt is a real problem.
That was not my intention to say that it didn’t matter, I said that as it didn’t matter in your upfront medical costs not that deficit spending isn’t and issue or doesn’t matter. The point of my original rant was to address medical costs not government spending or tax write offs.
Nice, try, your exactly opposite of what I was saying, read my last line and I specifically said we could do better.. Getting the government out of the VA and general healthcare would probably be a better path but I know we don't agree on that.
No we won’t agree on that but I understand your point of view. As I stated many other countries have their government work and advocate for them when it comes to their health care and well being. To me ours should do the same but to each their own. I'm not a huge fan of big government but when it comes to the health and safety of its citizens (military, heathcare) I expect it to be like a rabid pit bull, not the field mouse we currently have.
I figured you'd agree with the part where I also complained about not being able to get an answer about cost before a service. I've experienced that too. There's no excuse for that and it's frustrating.
Sorry I didn’t mean to leave that part out, its hard to dissect posts like this on my phone. I meant to say I completely agree with you on that.
If you challenge that bill and we all start to do the same it might be a small move in the right direction. I hope you have good luck and can get somewhere with them.
Unfortunately with how deadlocked our Federal government is I have little hope that anything this major will change soon. It really should be a major, major topic each election cycle but we seem to get caught up and distracted by other things, every damn time. Most likely change will come from the states first, hopefully. I agree with this being an in person thing. My post was to rant about my own personal experience I didn’t intend to make a debate but if people want to debate it on here I’m not going to shy away from replying to it.
Finally hope all is well your way, I haven’t seen many facebook post lately or on here from you.
This is why these discussions are better in person, it would actually be an interesting discussion instead of throwing snippets back and forth.
There is regulation but it mostly has to do with procedures, licensing and other redtape etc…… very little to do with cost, in fact one of the only sectors where cost is somewhat regulated is Medicare and the same procedures done under medicare is far cheaper than what you or I would pay under our insurance. Another feather in the cap of regulating costs.
Only because you implied a certain cost didn't matter because it would just go into deficit spending. Debt is a real problem.
That was not my intention to say that it didn’t matter, I said that as it didn’t matter in your upfront medical costs not that deficit spending isn’t and issue or doesn’t matter. The point of my original rant was to address medical costs not government spending or tax write offs.
Nice, try, your exactly opposite of what I was saying, read my last line and I specifically said we could do better.. Getting the government out of the VA and general healthcare would probably be a better path but I know we don't agree on that.
No we won’t agree on that but I understand your point of view. As I stated many other countries have their government work and advocate for them when it comes to their health care and well being. To me ours should do the same but to each their own. I'm not a huge fan of big government but when it comes to the health and safety of its citizens (military, heathcare) I expect it to be like a rabid pit bull, not the field mouse we currently have.
I figured you'd agree with the part where I also complained about not being able to get an answer about cost before a service. I've experienced that too. There's no excuse for that and it's frustrating.
Sorry I didn’t mean to leave that part out, its hard to dissect posts like this on my phone. I meant to say I completely agree with you on that.
If you challenge that bill and we all start to do the same it might be a small move in the right direction. I hope you have good luck and can get somewhere with them.
Unfortunately with how deadlocked our Federal government is I have little hope that anything this major will change soon. It really should be a major, major topic each election cycle but we seem to get caught up and distracted by other things, every damn time. Most likely change will come from the states first, hopefully. I agree with this being an in person thing. My post was to rant about my own personal experience I didn’t intend to make a debate but if people want to debate it on here I’m not going to shy away from replying to it.
Finally hope all is well your way, I haven’t seen many facebook post lately or on here from you.
Yep, doing pretty good over here. Staying away from Facebook other than looking at pictures of pets and car videos. I need to post here more and hope to catch you out this way soon maybe working on your truck.
I think the answer is in the math. Unfortunately it is not something average voters want to do or research, as tv soundbites are easier to regurgitate.
Also, these are massive industries, spending billions a year to buy politicians into keeping the status quo. Too much at stake to change, no different than our tax system industry, there is too much inertia to change it. The change itself can be pretty simple, and plenty of bad examples on both private and public healthcare management. Medicare and medic-aid seem to do ok in my experience, the VA is a soup sandwich. Then BCBS of NC is worse than the VA by design, where UH seems to do a lot better.
Also, these are massive industries, spending billions a year to buy politicians into keeping the status quo. Too much at stake to change, no different than our tax system industry, there is too much inertia to change it. The change itself can be pretty simple, and plenty of bad examples on both private and public healthcare management. Medicare and medic-aid seem to do ok in my experience, the VA is a soup sandwich. Then BCBS of NC is worse than the VA by design, where UH seems to do a lot better.
Yep its getting closer to the new engine happening for the 80.
Yeah staying away from FB is something i've tried to do but I use it so much to keep up with friends and family. I do prefer IG just because its strictly pics and mostly good times.
I'll hopefully bring some good WA beers for you guys to try when I make it back out that way.
little_joe
SILVER Star
You're conflating government-managed health care by government-hired medical professionals in government-owned facilities for government employees (current and former) with the civilian/private market. This is a complete and total strawman argument.
Single payer does not resemble VA in any way whatsoever. Total strawman.
No one is saying abolish private health care, no one is saying you have to go to a government facility, nor is anyone saying you need government review and approval for a procedure. In a single-payer system, private enterprise continues to exist, medical practices continue to exist, it's just that everyone is in a single pool thereby spreading risk and sharing costs.
I used to work for an insurance company. We affectionately (and derisively) called it "selling bags of air." There's no reason to have eleventy-thousand health insurance companies, that is just an unnecessary middleman driving up everyone's costs. Why health insurance companies even continue to exist is a mystery.
Health care in the US is not in any way a free market. Certainly you're well aware of in- vs out-of-network costs. I've had to change providers on occasion due to changing jobs == got put in a network that didn't cover stuff from my existing provider(s), so I was forced to go to a new provider or pay $$$$$.
In a free market, we know the price of things up front. Hell, even in a communist or socialist state, costs are known up front. Why is ours the only system where a procedure or treatment cannot be priced up front?
Man, I really want to stay out of this and I am going to for the most part, but since the HC topic is hot, I will lump on a personal experience that kind of keys into @lt1fire 's original comment. I went in for a regular check-up, at this point is was 3 or 4 years ago. Went in in December for regular stuff. Had a strep test and a flu test while I was there. Got the bill in January and paid it almost immediately, and all was well. Fast forward to August of that year and I get another bill from the hospital saying I had a balance. My immediate thought was OH Sh!t, I forgot to pay that... I got on to pay it and noticed that it was paid and that this was a second billing for the same visit and testing. I get on the phone and try to get someone in billing and after a stop at their office and a few other long wait times I end up on the phone with the insurance company. Not an American call center, but they answered first ring and were very polite, so I will give them credit for that. After a good long discussion, what I got from them was that the insurance company coded something wrong and the hospital was overpaid, so I was underbilled and basically they took the money back from the hospital, so I got a bill for the balance, 6 months later
I more or less backed this guy into a corner and made him admit it was their mistake and that they basically still were not going to take the liability for it. I was like, so you made a mistake and you expect for either me or the hospital to pay for it... His sheepish response was "uh yes" OK, thank you and I hung up.
To this day, I have not paid that $63.27 and refuse to. I did my part, the facility did theirs, why should either of us have to answer for their mistake. I am sure they wrote it off and I hate that and I would never intentionally not pay a bill, but I made an exception here.
All that to say, I honestly don't know the answer, All I will add to this tangent is that the system is broken, along with many other systems and it does need some kind of overhaul, but what that looks like and how it gets implemented is a whole nother animal. These are the kind of things that to be honest, most of us "regular people" could sort out around a campfire over a couple beers in a few hours, but carrying that up the ranks is where it all gets sideways.
Anyway, someone needs to get pissy about stupid drivers or an almond joy without almonds and get us out of this quagmire that is HC. See it has even soiled the rant thread, and I'll be dammed if I didn't fall right into the trap too
I more or less backed this guy into a corner and made him admit it was their mistake and that they basically still were not going to take the liability for it. I was like, so you made a mistake and you expect for either me or the hospital to pay for it... His sheepish response was "uh yes" OK, thank you and I hung up.
To this day, I have not paid that $63.27 and refuse to. I did my part, the facility did theirs, why should either of us have to answer for their mistake. I am sure they wrote it off and I hate that and I would never intentionally not pay a bill, but I made an exception here.
All that to say, I honestly don't know the answer, All I will add to this tangent is that the system is broken, along with many other systems and it does need some kind of overhaul, but what that looks like and how it gets implemented is a whole nother animal. These are the kind of things that to be honest, most of us "regular people" could sort out around a campfire over a couple beers in a few hours, but carrying that up the ranks is where it all gets sideways.
Anyway, someone needs to get pissy about stupid drivers or an almond joy without almonds and get us out of this quagmire that is HC. See it has even soiled the rant thread, and I'll be dammed if I didn't fall right into the trap too
- Thread starter
- #2,214
Now THAT would be the life. The would call it Joy, and it would be good. Almonds are the only damn thing keeping me from enjoying one. ****ing almonds.
- Thread starter
- #2,216
Oh. I forgot about the coconut. That’s a deal breaker. Jeez...almond joy is quite possibly the worst candy bar ever.
The key is Almond Joy is dark chocolate, Mounds is milk chocolate. Almond Joy every time.
What's wrong with almonds? I'd still take an almond joy over ANYTHING with white chocolate.
White chocolate. Nasty stuff. Dark chocolate. Good juju.
jfz80
Cruisin’
Zero. White chocolate. And almonds. And nougat. Let the rants begin!!!! Lol
Will this affect my health care?
Will this affect my health care?
Last edited:
