Tools needed for knuckle rebuild
- Thread starter michaelharrisco
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #102
I will be glad to help anyone on this. I had a few pointers along the way from others.
I'm no expert, but I don't think I will forget how to do this job the rest if my life.
Got it all buttoned up tonight and took it for a test drive around the neighborhood. 4wd H and L checked out good and no leaks yet. Steering feels so much better in 2wd now!
Hopefully sat I can bleed front brakes and get it up to speed out of 2nd gear for a true test.
Any suggestions on how to double check everything so I feel real good about it? Only thing I can think of is checking torque on knuckle top and bottom where torque wrench can reach.
To be honest it is gonna freak me out getting this thing up to 40mph + the first few times.
Hopefully this weekend I can finish front brakes and give it a quick wash to get all the grease off the fenders and the floor of my garage.
Here she is parked back in the garage after the test run!
I'm no expert, but I don't think I will forget how to do this job the rest if my life.
Got it all buttoned up tonight and took it for a test drive around the neighborhood. 4wd H and L checked out good and no leaks yet. Steering feels so much better in 2wd now!
Hopefully sat I can bleed front brakes and get it up to speed out of 2nd gear for a true test.
Any suggestions on how to double check everything so I feel real good about it? Only thing I can think of is checking torque on knuckle top and bottom where torque wrench can reach.
To be honest it is gonna freak me out getting this thing up to 40mph + the first few times.
Hopefully this weekend I can finish front brakes and give it a quick wash to get all the grease off the fenders and the floor of my garage.
Here she is parked back in the garage after the test run!
Very nice. I love that color. Does it look as "pumpkin" in person???
- Thread starter
- #106
PO did paint job... It really isn't that quality of a job and overspray in areas.
I've never seen a org pumpkin color so not sure how close it is to the true pumpkin. Truck org is beage. The orange has grown on me over the years though.
Any links to instructions on how to adjust center arm and steering box? I rebuilt center arm about a year ago.
I've never seen a org pumpkin color so not sure how close it is to the true pumpkin. Truck org is beage. The orange has grown on me over the years though.
Any links to instructions on how to adjust center arm and steering box? I rebuilt center arm about a year ago.
Does it track straight?
There might be a better way but this is how I do it:
For the steering box on the side of the box there are a nut and a bolt - get two box end wrenches, IIRC a 14mm and a 17mm and loosen the smaller one while holding the larger, then tighten the larger nut slightly to take up slack. Don't over tighten! Just make small adjustments until you take out the slack. If you tighten it too much the steering will feel heavy or tight.
The center arm is similar. Two wrenches, I think the same 14/17 sizes, hold the larger one and loosen the smaller one on top. Adjust the larger one and tighten the smaller one. Again, not too tight. And make small adjustments testing while you go until you feel it's right. Often you will get it too tight and have a heavy feel then back off and get it just right. Like a carb or timing adjustment there is often some seat time behind the wheel until you stick it and get it dialed in. At my skill level, this is not something that you just do. Rather, it's something that you have to be willing to mess with until it's right.
Both adjustments are similar to a headset, bottom bracket or hub adjustment on a bike.
-Stumbaugh
For the steering box on the side of the box there are a nut and a bolt - get two box end wrenches, IIRC a 14mm and a 17mm and loosen the smaller one while holding the larger, then tighten the larger nut slightly to take up slack. Don't over tighten! Just make small adjustments until you take out the slack. If you tighten it too much the steering will feel heavy or tight.
The center arm is similar. Two wrenches, I think the same 14/17 sizes, hold the larger one and loosen the smaller one on top. Adjust the larger one and tighten the smaller one. Again, not too tight. And make small adjustments testing while you go until you feel it's right. Often you will get it too tight and have a heavy feel then back off and get it just right. Like a carb or timing adjustment there is often some seat time behind the wheel until you stick it and get it dialed in. At my skill level, this is not something that you just do. Rather, it's something that you have to be willing to mess with until it's right.
Both adjustments are similar to a headset, bottom bracket or hub adjustment on a bike.
-Stumbaugh
Need to be real careful on the steering box. Over tighten that one and you can do some damage and the do some other damage. On the steering boxes just do 1/4 turn at a time and take it for a drive.
On the center box it does not have gears in it so just tighten to your hearts content. You will know real fast if it is to tight as soon as you try to turn the wheel either way.
On the center box it does not have gears in it so just tighten to your hearts content. You will know real fast if it is to tight as soon as you try to turn the wheel either way.
Very good point! Take it super easy. Like a bearing adjustment on a bike, you don't want to feel any resistance on the wrench. Just slightly beyond finder tight.
You are only taking up the slack - anything more is going to do damage.
- Thread starter
- #111
I'm following all this.... Funniest thing is my steering has been so lose since I've owned it after doing tre and this job it already feels so much better.
Hopefully this weekend (could be tough with family visiting) I can bleed brakes and really get it out on the road to see how it is handling.
Hopefully this weekend (could be tough with family visiting) I can bleed brakes and really get it out on the road to see how it is handling.
RDouble check your tie rods too - I sold my favorite FJ40 to a guy who put new tie rods on it - his kid then took it out and rolled it multiple times. Thanks to my cage and six point belts, he was not hurt but the truck was a total loss.
He did not not tighten the tie rod and it came loose!
He did not not tighten the tie rod and it came loose!
It wasn't the knuckle studs, it was the wheel bearings that needed another good tightening! Went through a set of tires pretty quick.... Unless I'm using the wrong terminology...
Yes, but that was before the rebuild. I got them good with some locktite before the re-install. Hadn't backed out since..
- Thread starter
- #117
Oh no...minor set back, but so glad I'm seeing this now instead of on the road.
A few days ago I drove it easy around the neighborhood and left it in the garage. Today I went to go bleed brakes and I checked everything to make sure it was snug. Quite a few of the nuts on the top and bottom of the knuckle housing were lose (I mean lose by hand)!!!!
I took a look and thought about it...this is what I realized and it is scary. The nuts are not correct. I did have a small number of org nuts left so I tried those and it was evident the ones on there were incorrect. I went to Loop Rd Auto (I trust these guys) and they were very confident and quick to say that the pitch on these nuts was very specific and not common (JIS perhaps?). They showed me and it make senses. I asked them where I could get these locally and they didn't know of anywhere and Wilders said the same thing before.
I called the dealer and they are able to get these so I ordered all new ones for both sides.
Now that I've learned this, I'm confident this is what was causing the weird clicking when I torque down to spec.
I pulled off each side to the point where I could get the disc brake dust cover off to expose the bottom better and have everything on both sides set to install the new nuts. Once they arrive I should be able to everything back together quickly (this is the 3rd / 4th time I've done this).
Anyways, I'm a bit bummed, but at the same time glad this has all come up now and that I can get it back together quickly since I'm all prepped.
If I knew the ATF and acetone magic mix I could have avoided damaging the original nuts, but that is history at this point.
Just wanted to throw this out there for others in case you get in this situation.
Lesson: Double check the nuts (if you replace org) you buy because you can buy some that thread good and tight, but in all reality are ever so slightly different that it matters.
I'm betting folks out here know about this / have an opinion. I've defiantly proven out what happened. If I could do it again, I'd just buy these from the dealer to start with.
Hopefully next weekend I can have these installed and go get some new tires!
A few days ago I drove it easy around the neighborhood and left it in the garage. Today I went to go bleed brakes and I checked everything to make sure it was snug. Quite a few of the nuts on the top and bottom of the knuckle housing were lose (I mean lose by hand)!!!!
I took a look and thought about it...this is what I realized and it is scary. The nuts are not correct. I did have a small number of org nuts left so I tried those and it was evident the ones on there were incorrect. I went to Loop Rd Auto (I trust these guys) and they were very confident and quick to say that the pitch on these nuts was very specific and not common (JIS perhaps?). They showed me and it make senses. I asked them where I could get these locally and they didn't know of anywhere and Wilders said the same thing before.
I called the dealer and they are able to get these so I ordered all new ones for both sides.
Now that I've learned this, I'm confident this is what was causing the weird clicking when I torque down to spec.
I pulled off each side to the point where I could get the disc brake dust cover off to expose the bottom better and have everything on both sides set to install the new nuts. Once they arrive I should be able to everything back together quickly (this is the 3rd / 4th time I've done this).
Anyways, I'm a bit bummed, but at the same time glad this has all come up now and that I can get it back together quickly since I'm all prepped.
If I knew the ATF and acetone magic mix I could have avoided damaging the original nuts, but that is history at this point.
Just wanted to throw this out there for others in case you get in this situation.
Lesson: Double check the nuts (if you replace org) you buy because you can buy some that thread good and tight, but in all reality are ever so slightly different that it matters.
I'm betting folks out here know about this / have an opinion. I've defiantly proven out what happened. If I could do it again, I'd just buy these from the dealer to start with.
Hopefully next weekend I can have these installed and go get some new tires!
There are several SAE bolts that can be confused for metric and vice versa:
This explains it pretty well:
Thread Pitch
Users must be aware that there are three types of thread pitches available: the Standard thread, which is similar to the UNC; the Fine thread, similar to the UNF; and the Japanese thread which is in between but is used only on the M10 and M12 fasteners. For example; an M10 fastener can have a thread pitch of 1.0mm, 1.25mm and 1.50mm.
Identification is extremely important because many metric sizes are very close to the inch series that the nut or fastener may be started but additional tightening may result in thread stripping. For example, a ¼”-28 fastener has a diameter of 0.250” compared with an M6 which measures 0.236”. The difference is 0.014”. The thread pitch on the M6 is 1.0 which is roughly equivalent to 25.6 threads-per-inch Vs the 28 TPI for the inch fastener. Not much difference and easy to confuse.
The following chart cites other examples which illustrate the potential danger of mixing an inch with a metric fastener. The resultant assembly will produce clamp loads from 25 to 60% less than expected, providing the threads haven’t stripped or have begun to strip, in which case the loads will be close to 100% lost.
Inch Threads vs. Metric Threads
Inch Bolts Metric Nuts
10/32 M5 x 0.8
1/4″-28 M7 x 1.0
5/16″-18 M8 x 1.0
3/8″-16 M10 x 1.5
7/16″-14 M12 x 1.75
1/2″-13 M14 x 2
3/4″-10 M20 x 2.5
3/4″-16 M20 x 1.5
Metric Bolts Inch Nuts
M12 x 1.25 1/2″-20
M18 x 2.5 3/4″-10
M18 x 1.5 3/4″-16
M24 x 3 1″-8
M24 x 2 1″-12
Property Classes
Metric fastener strengths are named ‘Property Class’, not ‘Grade’. Even so, the Property Classes are roughly equivalent to the SAE Grade system. The following provides some examples.
Metric Grades
Property Class SAE Grade
4.6 Grade 1
4.8 Grade 1
4.8 Grade 2
8.8 Grade 5
9.8 9% Stronger
10.9 Grade 8
11.9 NONE
12.9 ASTM A574
From:
http://m3service.com/metricinch-comparisons/
This explains it pretty well:
Thread Pitch
Users must be aware that there are three types of thread pitches available: the Standard thread, which is similar to the UNC; the Fine thread, similar to the UNF; and the Japanese thread which is in between but is used only on the M10 and M12 fasteners. For example; an M10 fastener can have a thread pitch of 1.0mm, 1.25mm and 1.50mm.
Identification is extremely important because many metric sizes are very close to the inch series that the nut or fastener may be started but additional tightening may result in thread stripping. For example, a ¼”-28 fastener has a diameter of 0.250” compared with an M6 which measures 0.236”. The difference is 0.014”. The thread pitch on the M6 is 1.0 which is roughly equivalent to 25.6 threads-per-inch Vs the 28 TPI for the inch fastener. Not much difference and easy to confuse.
The following chart cites other examples which illustrate the potential danger of mixing an inch with a metric fastener. The resultant assembly will produce clamp loads from 25 to 60% less than expected, providing the threads haven’t stripped or have begun to strip, in which case the loads will be close to 100% lost.
Inch Threads vs. Metric Threads
Inch Bolts Metric Nuts
10/32 M5 x 0.8
1/4″-28 M7 x 1.0
5/16″-18 M8 x 1.0
3/8″-16 M10 x 1.5
7/16″-14 M12 x 1.75
1/2″-13 M14 x 2
3/4″-10 M20 x 2.5
3/4″-16 M20 x 1.5
Metric Bolts Inch Nuts
M12 x 1.25 1/2″-20
M18 x 2.5 3/4″-10
M18 x 1.5 3/4″-16
M24 x 3 1″-8
M24 x 2 1″-12
Property Classes
Metric fastener strengths are named ‘Property Class’, not ‘Grade’. Even so, the Property Classes are roughly equivalent to the SAE Grade system. The following provides some examples.
Metric Grades
Property Class SAE Grade
4.6 Grade 1
4.8 Grade 1
4.8 Grade 2
8.8 Grade 5
9.8 9% Stronger
10.9 Grade 8
11.9 NONE
12.9 ASTM A574
From:
http://m3service.com/metricinch-comparisons/
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #120
All,
I've finally finished up this job!
Thanks for all the support.
Lessons learned:
1) ATF + acetone is magical
2) never beat on studs without brass drift no matter how "soft" you think you are hammering
3) don't trust a local shop for fasteners / hardware... Order from a trusted source because there are some very specific hardware involved with this if you are replacing org
4) warn hub instructions are universal and may not apply to every vehicle
5) don't start this job 3 days before your baby's due date
Anyways... Had a blast doing this but I'm really glad it is over.
Thanks again for all the q&a and tools. By far the biggest car project of any kind I've tackled.
Now... Time for a celebration beer and new tires!
I've finally finished up this job!
Thanks for all the support.
Lessons learned:
1) ATF + acetone is magical
2) never beat on studs without brass drift no matter how "soft" you think you are hammering
3) don't trust a local shop for fasteners / hardware... Order from a trusted source because there are some very specific hardware involved with this if you are replacing org
4) warn hub instructions are universal and may not apply to every vehicle
5) don't start this job 3 days before your baby's due date
Anyways... Had a blast doing this but I'm really glad it is over.
Thanks again for all the q&a and tools. By far the biggest car project of any kind I've tackled.
Now... Time for a celebration beer and new tires!