To desmog or not to desmog? (1 Viewer)

[macfair14]

I just put a rebuilt Aisin carb on my '83 FJ60, and I cannot get her to idle without the choke. The solenoid clicks when the key is turned, the correct wire is grounded and the hot wire reads 11 Volts. The vacuum gauge at the intake manifold reads ~17 with the choke out enough to keep her alive (a little above 1000), and she revs and sounds fine. The odometer broke at 260,000 miles, the engine compartment is a mess of dirty tangled vacuum lines and old appliances. The hose from the top of the air cleaner (closest to carb) is disconnected from the air pump, and it has no vanes to attach to.

I also have a new aftermarket Japanese carb from CityRacerLLC designed for a desmog, and I have to decide whether to go through the FS emissions manual and try and figure out why it won't idle , or whether to take everything out and desmog.

Is it worth it to desmog? I've read through the threads on here, and I understand the basics and know the engine pretty well, but I am in school, and I can't find an estimate of how much time/ work it will really take.

 

[guerasfj60]

Worth it if you don’t need emissions inspections.
Fix and keep the smog equipment connected or desmog (save equipment) and deal with emissions in your county/state.

 

[MoaByte]

I'd say if it runs great don't do it. That is clearly not your case. It's time to remove the spaghetti monster and extra weight. You and your 60 will feel so much better.

 

[John Staton]

do it if you can....

 

[OSS]

If it's your only car that you depend on -don't mess with it unless you feel confident in what you're doing. Removing the emission equipment the wrong way can make things worse - but doing it correctly will be a pleasure.

 

[rfj62]

What are the benefits of removing the smog equipment, air pump use a lot of power? Seems like a lot of work, what do you get out of it, better reliability more HP?

Thanks, Jeff

 

[Seth S]

What are the benefits of removing the smog equipment, air pump use a lot of power? Seems like a lot of work, what do you get out of it, better reliability more HP?

Thanks, Jeff

Benefit is cleaner engine bay. That’s about it. Performance doesn’t change. I desmogged after my air injection rail broke open and I 1) don’t live in a smog test state and 2) didn’t feel like fixing the air rail and 3) suspected most of my emission parts weren’t working as designed.

doing the desmog is actually pretty easy and there’s some parts available from several vendors to make it easier.

 

[rfj62]

I feel like I'm missing something

Benefit is cleaner engine bay. That’s about it. Performance doesn’t change. I desmogged after my air injection rail broke open and I 1) don’t live in a smog test state and 2) didn’t feel like fixing the air rail and 3) suspected most of my emission parts weren’t working as designed.

doing the desmog is actually pretty easy and there’s some parts available from several vendors to make it easier.

I kinda feel like I am missing something on this one. I've been reading a 24 page document, from another Ih8mud member, on de-smogging, With doing a rebuilt or de-smogged carb, de-vaning the air pump or an air pump idler pulley, recurving the distributor, egr block off plate, disconnecting the pipe from the exhaust down pipe and numerous other items, it seems like a lot of work and money for just a cleaner engine bay?

 

[Seth S]

I feel like I'm missing something

I kinda feel like I am missing something on this one. I've been reading a 24 page document, from another Ih8mud member, on de-smogging, With doing a rebuilt or de-smogged carb, de-vaning the air pump or an air pump idler pulley, recurving the distributor, egr block off plate, disconnecting the pipe from the exhaust down pipe and numerous other items, it seems like a lot of work and money for just a cleaner engine bay?

Just depends on what you like. In my case none of my smog equipment was working and my air rail had rusted through. My smog pump was working but egr was leaking everywhere and needed a full overhaul. So faced with sourcing lots of parts and doing all the work anyways I opted for the desmog. I did the whole desmog in about 4 hours of work. Most of the time was in rerouting vac lines.

 

[MoaByte]

It was the spaghetti monster for me. Smog equipment added too many variables for my simple mind. I feel I gained some power. It might be the Sniper, it might be that it's so much easier to work on now because the spaghetti monster scared me away from adjusting the valves.

 

[Seth S]

Honestly the desmog is pretty easy. Only part that can be a challenge are the bolts on the EGR pipe at the back of the manifold.

 

[euclid537]

I feel like I'm missing something

I kinda feel like I am missing something on this one. I've been reading a 24 page document, from another Ih8mud member, on de-smogging, With doing a rebuilt or de-smogged carb, de-vaning the air pump or an air pump idler pulley, recurving the distributor, egr block off plate, disconnecting the pipe from the exhaust down pipe and numerous other items, it seems like a lot of work and money for just a cleaner engine bay?

The reality is that these are old trucks, and the emission equipment on MOST of them, by this point, is faulty in one way or another... and people don't know it.
By (properly) desmogging, you are effectively eliminating almost all of your sources for vacuum leaks.

That said, if you can retain the emissions equipment, and you plan on selling the truck some day, the value of smogged vehicles is driving pretty high due to California.

 

[GeologistFelix]

I had the same question about ten years ago, and decided to go with the desmog. If I had the opportunity to do it all over, knowing everything I know now, I think I *wish* I'd kept the stock setup, but the desmog was definitely the best choice at the time, given the decade of relatively low effort to keep it running well enough to go 80 at 7500 feet on 33" tires and stock gears...it just doesn't like cold starts, idling at altitude, or making for a pleasant experience for anyone behind my tailpipe on the trail.

That said, there are a ton of little things I'd have done differently, now as someone who's been wrenching for 12 years instead of 2, and with the benefit of hindsight.

1.) Splurge on new hardware. Any nut, bolt, washer, etc. that comes off should be able to go in the scrap bin and get replaced with a new shiny one. It wouldn't have cost me that much, but it would have made reassembly (and future maintenance) a comparative treat.

2.) Don't use the desmog as an opportunity to hack apart an FJ40 Saginaw bracket to replace your leaky Toyota PS pump and eliminate the smog pump. Not worth the small savings vs. parts that'll just bolt in (and actually put the pulley in the right spot....).

3.) Don't unbolt the hood to make it easier to work on. It'll never fit quite right when you put it back on

 

[SteveH]

Given the current political climate, I'd leave it all dead stock, working or not.

The dimbulbs (they have D after their name) running Colorado have hit the fast-forward button on stupid and I wonder if they won't swoop down again on collector cars and older vehicles as high polluters. I wonder when my TBI kit will have to be replaced with the carb....

 

[rfj62]

Thanks for all the input!

I had the same question about ten years ago, and decided to go with the desmog. If I had the opportunity to do it all over, knowing everything I know now, I think I *wish* I'd kept the stock setup, but the desmog was definitely the best choice at the time, given the decade of relatively low effort to keep it running well enough to go 80 at 7500 feet on 33" tires and stock gears...it just doesn't like cold starts, idling at altitude, or making for a pleasant experience for anyone behind my tailpipe on the trail.

That said, there are a ton of little things I'd have done differently, now as someone who's been wrenching for 12 years instead of 2, and with the benefit of hindsight.

1.) Splurge on new hardware. Any nut, bolt, washer, etc. that comes off should be able to go in the scrap bin and get replaced with a new shiny one. It wouldn't have cost me that much, but it would have made reassembly (and future maintenance) a comparative treat.

2.) Don't use the desmog as an opportunity to hack apart an FJ40 Saginaw bracket to replace your leaky Toyota PS pump and eliminate the smog pump. Not worth the small savings vs. parts that'll just bolt in (and actually put the pulley in the right spot....).

3.) Don't unbolt the hood to make it easier to work on. It'll never fit quite right when you put it back on

How come you would not do it if you could 'go back in time'? There does seem to b a lot of people that have problems afterwards. Maybe not done properly.

 

[rfj62]

The reality is that these are old trucks, and the emission equipment on MOST of them, by this point, is faulty in one way or another... and people don't know it.
By (properly) desmogging, you are effectively eliminating almost all of your sources for vacuum leaks.

That said, if you can retain the emissions equipment, and you plan on selling the truck some day, the value of smogged vehicles is driving pretty high due to California.

Either replace all the defective smog equipment or just get rid of it. That makes sense.

 

[GeologistFelix]

Thanks for all the input!

How come you would not do it if you could 'go back in time'? There does seem to b a lot of people that have problems afterwards. Maybe not done properly.

Basically, for the time/effort/money I ultimately put into my desmog, I'm left regretting not putting in just a little bit more to make the stock setup work properly back when all the parts were cheaper and easier to find. Hindsight is 20/20, though, and I made a lot of mistakes before I knew any better.

Thinking about that, now, I might have to change my answer. Considering part availability in 2021, I'm actually more in favor of a desmog (or TBI, or engine swap etc.) than trying to restore the stock setup if you don't need it to pass any kind of inspection/sniff test...but, you know, don't half-ass your mod/updgrade/etc. on a shoestring budget like I did.