Giving the truck is 100k love tomorrow. Diff’s x3, coolant, engine oil, and….transmission fluid exchange, replace the trans filter ?? I tow about 5-7 times a year 4500lbs trailer. Is it worth dropping the pan?
To change or not to change…the transmission filter.
- Thread starter Fj60+
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bloc
SILVER Star
I would, if for nothing more than to get a look at the magnets and determine whether your corner bolts are seized. Be prepared for that possibility.. PBblaster/kroil/whatever your preferred thread penetrant well before you do the job.
Also I assume you know you'll need to do the complex process to get trans temp on your MFI, or use techstream or OBDFusion to get trans temp readout to set the level..
Also I assume you know you'll need to do the complex process to get trans temp on your MFI, or use techstream or OBDFusion to get trans temp readout to set the level..
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- #3
I am unable to do it myself this time, sending it to the stealership. I am requesting they drop the pan and replace the trans screen. They just want to run fluid through there till it runs clean.
I wouldn’t drop the pan. I don’t understand the real world point. I would preserve the factory seal.
bloc
SILVER Star
The factory seal is nothing special, just a gasket that gets replaced. My advice is based on personally wanting a checkup on condition (as indicated by the magnets) with one third to quarter of the life expectancy of the transmission, in large part due to a tendency to tow a trailer and be far from home.
Not expecting everyone to agree, just explaining my reasoning.
Another option is fluid analysis on the ATF, though I don't know how much historical data the usual labs will have on this transmission.
And @Fj60+ lock your glove box and keep the key blade with you to prevent them breaking your recirc flap!
Not expecting everyone to agree, just explaining my reasoning.
Another option is fluid analysis on the ATF, though I don't know how much historical data the usual labs will have on this transmission.
And @Fj60+ lock your glove box and keep the key blade with you to prevent them breaking your recirc flap!
I would not drop the pan. You run the risk of breaking off a pan bolt if they're rusted. If your truck has spent it's whole life in Austin you're probably ok, but if you do break one you then have to go drill and tap to fix. The filter is really just a screen and is unlikely to be dirty... it really is a lifetime "filter".
My $0.02, feel free to ignore it.
My $0.02, feel free to ignore it.
As one that just dropped the pan...
I wouldn't drop the pan. There's enough risk to the aforementioned bolts that it's not worth the procedure. It's a very real and likely issue based on so many reports. The filter is more a strainer, and by design would have been sized appropriately for the expected lifetime of the transmission. Same with the magnets.
Reason I dropped the pan is I'm in Socal, so corrosion and the associated risk of beaking bolts is practically nil. As I'm towing well beyond the rated 14,645 lbs GCWR at a scaled 15,620lbs, wanted to do a deeper inspection. Nothing looked out of character and I would have been fine with a normal flush.
I wouldn't drop the pan. There's enough risk to the aforementioned bolts that it's not worth the procedure. It's a very real and likely issue based on so many reports. The filter is more a strainer, and by design would have been sized appropriately for the expected lifetime of the transmission. Same with the magnets.
Reason I dropped the pan is I'm in Socal, so corrosion and the associated risk of beaking bolts is practically nil. As I'm towing well beyond the rated 14,645 lbs GCWR at a scaled 15,620lbs, wanted to do a deeper inspection. Nothing looked out of character and I would have been fine with a normal flush.
- Thread starter
- #8
Thanks y’all really appreciate the input, I’ll hold off on dropping the pan and just do the flush.
FWIW, I had zero issues with bolts. Bay area rig for it's first 4 years than PNW since.
That said, I agree that the filter isn't contributing much to trans longevity other than to keep a large broken bit from trying to circulate and perhaps allowing the vehicle to return home.
Thing with the magnets is... what does that diagnose? All transmissions will have a level of ferrous crud accumulating. But what is the go/no-go gauge for that? 20 mil? 50 mil? 80 mil? Is there a point in which it is predictive of failure (rare in the A750F anyway). Without a spectrum analysis you can't really quantify what is wearing. If there are large broken pieces then you're probably in a death spiral anyway and have other symptoms.
That said, I agree that the filter isn't contributing much to trans longevity other than to keep a large broken bit from trying to circulate and perhaps allowing the vehicle to return home.
Thing with the magnets is... what does that diagnose? All transmissions will have a level of ferrous crud accumulating. But what is the go/no-go gauge for that? 20 mil? 50 mil? 80 mil? Is there a point in which it is predictive of failure (rare in the A750F anyway). Without a spectrum analysis you can't really quantify what is wearing. If there are large broken pieces then you're probably in a death spiral anyway and have other symptoms.
bloc
SILVER Star
This is where experience and gut intuition come in. And I’ll admit the equation changes a bit when it’s someone without that experience or paying a shop to do the work.
I did the same job on the 120k mile 6L80 I put into my 80-series and the magnets seemed heavy on the gray slime, based on my experience. Fluid looked used but not 120k. I cleaned them, swapped filter and reassembled. That transmission started slipping 2nd or 3rd gear about 8k miles later on a trail in Utah prompting my first at home automatic transmission rebuild after I limped it home using HPTuners when driving to keep the trans out of the bad clutch.
When I got my 200 there was evidence the PO towed with it and no mention of transmission service in the extensive dealer history, so I definitely pulled the pan to have a look at the magnets. They looked great, so as far as I’m concerned if I keep acceptable fluid in this thing it was as good as new when I got it. Peace of mind was worth the work to me.
I have the OBDFusion ... could you please tell me how I get trans temp on it?
I dropped the pan it the last time I changed the trans fluid and I'll drop it again when I do it next time. You sure do not want to flush these transmissions, you want to just change the fluid . i.e. run the fluid through and out.
bloc
SILVER Star
Agreed on “flush” but the naming is a bit confusing.
A true flush often means using a machine to force pressurized fluid and sometimes solvents through the transmission in an attempt to clean deposits and improve function.
A fluid exchange, which is meant to replace all of the fluid in the transmission and often shops will use a special machine with internal diaphragm for, is ideal. No excess pressures or cleaning agents.
As opposed to a drain & fill that we all know only gets about a third of the fluid.
Trans temp via OBDFusion:
DIY Smartphone Scan Gauge - OBD Fusion
Having spent some time messing with an OBD-II smartphone monitor app on several long road trips, I think this topic deserves its own thread. Specifically using OBD Fusion to monitor the plethora of info available on the OBD-II data port of the vehicle. I can't take credit for this, but would...
forum.ih8mud.com
Most of the info is in the link above. IIRC, you'll need the Toyota PID add on. Search for A/T Temperature 1, and 2
Just want to confirm you did buy the Toyota PID pack? OBD Fusion won't show transmission temps without that $10 add-on
If you did but you don't see it in the menus, do a re-scan while parked... sometimes not all of the available PIDs will show up until you do that
Thanks, I was looking in the general PID and not the Toyota PID for it. I found it now.
I like to monitor this when driving off road especially on soft sand.
I just did mine a month ago. Bought the filter, seal, 2 bolts (just in case).
Did a full exchange. Replaced with Amsoil WS. Runs smooth.
Zero problems...other than than one of bolts "fooling" me into thinking it was still threaded partly into the transmission. Yup...it was going eerily smooth until the last 2 bolts (opposite each other - front and back), which I purposely left partly engaged with the transmission so I can drop the pan without spilling anything.
All according to plan. 2 bolts left...partly engaged. Soft taps with rubber mallet to disengage seal on back....seal disengaes on back...help up by bolt (so I thought). Move to front soft taps with rubber mallet...seal disengaging...pull on front of pan...pan drops only to find rear bolt was not engaged but front bolt was...end up wearing half the pan of transmission fluid...ahhh...fun times and a little bit of swearing. ..lol. Threw those clothes straight in the trash.
Did a full exchange. Replaced with Amsoil WS. Runs smooth.
Zero problems...other than than one of bolts "fooling" me into thinking it was still threaded partly into the transmission. Yup...it was going eerily smooth until the last 2 bolts (opposite each other - front and back), which I purposely left partly engaged with the transmission so I can drop the pan without spilling anything.
All according to plan. 2 bolts left...partly engaged. Soft taps with rubber mallet to disengage seal on back....seal disengaes on back...help up by bolt (so I thought). Move to front soft taps with rubber mallet...seal disengaging...pull on front of pan...pan drops only to find rear bolt was not engaged but front bolt was...end up wearing half the pan of transmission fluid...ahhh...fun times and a little bit of swearing. ..lol. Threw those clothes straight in the trash.
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You live in Texas. There is no worry about damaging bolts from the pan drop. There's 4 bolts with exposed ends, 2 on each side of the pan at the rear. Spray some PB Blaster over the top of them at the beginning of the job...let them soak until they are the last bolts to loosen. I loosen all of them, then back them out with a battery powered ratchet. I put a dab of anti-seize on the bolts when I put them back in the first time. Unless you live in the Salt Belt, that's all you'll ever need is that one time.
Dropping the pan is the way to go, as mentioned above you get to inspect for any foreign material that might give you a heads up. It's like a stress test on your heart.
A dealer wants to "run fluid through until its' clear" ??? That's NOT the correct procedure. That's why I don't let dealers touch my stuff....
A pan drop and fluid re-fill, run it down the road a couple of miles, then a drop-n-fill would be good. Repeat the drop-n-fill in 30k miles and pan drop at 60-70k..
Also - I don't know how many of you have ever actually held a proper OEM filter in your hands and looked at the internals, but it is NO SCREEN. Every single transmission filter I have bought has pleated material much like a high-quality air filter. If that's a screen that barely stops a broken bolt, that's news to me.
Dropping the pan is the way to go, as mentioned above you get to inspect for any foreign material that might give you a heads up. It's like a stress test on your heart.
A dealer wants to "run fluid through until its' clear" ??? That's NOT the correct procedure. That's why I don't let dealers touch my stuff....
A pan drop and fluid re-fill, run it down the road a couple of miles, then a drop-n-fill would be good. Repeat the drop-n-fill in 30k miles and pan drop at 60-70k..
Also - I don't know how many of you have ever actually held a proper OEM filter in your hands and looked at the internals, but it is NO SCREEN. Every single transmission filter I have bought has pleated material much like a high-quality air filter. If that's a screen that barely stops a broken bolt, that's news to me.
- Thread starter
- #19
So got the truck back. Did a fluid exchange, low pressure no chemicals. I also got the tsb done (2016), had the drive belt replaced, all the diffs done— center diff done with 75w hella expensive Toyota canned oil, engine oil changed, and coolant exchanged as well. Truck runs great, huge difference with the tsb, don’t know why I waited so long. I will drop the pan in 20k to look at the magnets and change the filter peace of mind, zero rust on the underside of my cruiser she’s been in Texas her whole life.
The 75W Ravenol would have saved you money.
