Tinker's latest brutal review of LC250 (3 Viewers)

[Jetboy]

33s and 13" of clearance have gotten me everywhere I've ever needed or wanted to go, with the departure angle being the limiting factor. But, I wheeled for years in a Subaru with 27" tires, and got good at picking lines . Many of the Broncos, Jeeps, EVs etc rolling around on 37s may never see dirt! Most of the ones around here certainly don't.

Regardless of the clearance problem, approach and departure angles seem to be getting worse as well. Everything was "tucked up" very nicely on the old rigs, but there is only so much room when turbochargers, intercoolers, and batteries start getting added to the mix.

I have just the solution for your woes. Simple. Light weight. High and tight. Bolt on in about 20 min so you could drop it off and leave at home when not out on adventures. Solves the departure issue 99% of the time. I combined this with a hitch skid and it worked well. I made this from random leftover stuff I had in my remnant rack. Would probably design a bit different if I were building them for sale, but the basic concept is pretty simple and works well.

If you want the spare underneath (I do) there needs to be at least roughly 40 inches from the axle to bumper cover. There's only so much you can do from an engineering standpoint to improve departure angle. But I generally find that a durable bumper or skid like this one I had resolves the rear issue. It's very rare that I would ever actually get hung up or stopped by dragging a rear bumper. Just like sliders on the sill plates. I hit them all the time - but it isn't really an issue if they're protected. The approach angle is a lot more problematic for these suvs. Especially the fully plastic treatment they get now and the ever increasing overhangs.

 

[Rednexus]

I have just the solution for your woes. Simple. Light weight. High and tight. Bolt on in about 20 min so you could drop it off and leave at home when not out on adventures. Solves the departure issue 99% of the time. I combined this with a hitch skid and it worked well. I made this from random leftover stuff I had in my remnant rack. Would probably design a bit different if I were building them for sale, but the basic concept is pretty simple and works well.

I like that! I'm toying with an Ascend Fabrications rear bumper or DIYing something like you did. The kicker will be maintaining the 6,500# OEM rear hitch, or at least utilizing it in a way where I can easily remove it when wheeling. I'm also considering adding a spare tire swingout that is removable - so I could leave the spare in the OEM location most of the time, then install a swingout and put the tire there for more clearance on dedicated wheeling trips.

 

[tacoshawn]

My Tacoma consistently dragged the rear on aggressive obstacles, more on departure than on the approach. I went with a steel bumper so I could just drag it and then touch it up with spray paint. I’m looking at bumpers or some kind of a metal grind cover for the rear of my GX in particular. I’m not keen to tear the bumper cover off.

 

[Jetboy]

Yup. I can't argue with this looking through an enthusiast lens. Of course mother Toyota generally knows what she's doing and tailors these trims and bumpers for the target yuppie new car buyer. Perhaps taking on a frustratingly conservative posture with tire size and equipment even as the Overlanding market is exploding.

I mean how many years did Toyota sleep on the GX until enthusiasts and aftermarket woke up to cut yards of tupperwear to realize the chassis' full potential?



Leave it to the lawyers to limit tire sizes on Toyota's. Even now, they're finally stepping up to 33s where the competitors and new EV kids on the block are into 35s and 37s.

Where the old GX460/470 only had enough core strength in diffs, suspension uprights, steering components to fit big 34 before components start becoming liabilities in hard offroading, I think the GX550 is going to be the ticket to maximize the platform with solid core strength to support 35s and hopefully 37s. Possibly enough for the bucket challenge (at least on the IFS front axle).

View attachment 3936298

I mean - AHC is the solution for low ride height, ride quality, and good ground clearance. Toyota already figured it out. They just decided to withhold it for only a very small production volume of vehicles. The R&D is all done and probably totally depreciated too. Now's the time to cash in on all that work! Make it a $5k stand alone option on all the GA-F platform models. It would make the Sequoia about a billion times more interesting. It would really improve my view of the TrailHunter 4Runner and Tacoma vs the domestic competitors on 35s. Toyota needs to let AHC shine not limit it to a few thousand global vehicles per year. And put it in the models that would make the most of it.

 

[Heckraiser]

And mount it inside the frame rails

 

[Jetboy]

I like that! I'm toying with an Ascend Fabrications rear bumper or DIYing something like you did. The kicker will be maintaining the 6,500# OEM rear hitch, or at least utilizing it in a way where I can easily remove it when wheeling.

I think it would probably be even easier to fabricate something similar to bolt to the factory GX hitch. The hardest part about building this one was the frame mounting plates. The frames have a weld bead down the bottom surface of the frame rails so it's not a smooth surface to mount to which is why the OEM hitch has that curvy edge where the bolts mount to the frame. I built this one in about 4 hours the night before an offroad trip, so I didn't have time to do a proper design, draw in CAD, make cut files and cut on my torch. It was all hand fab - mostly by eyeball and cardboard patterns. If I were building more than one - I would just copy the OEM hitch design for mounting. It's better than my one-off hand made version. With the OEM bolt on hitch you could just mount a plate directly to the vertical part of the hitch plate and bolt on from the sides and make just the two side wing parts. I had to add that crossmember across the bumper to stiffen up the assembly. I initially bent it to go under the hitch but it looked better going above so I flipped it over. I never took a 3d scan of it or any detailed measurements, but I have some pictures of how it is assembled to clear the exhaust I can PM you if you wanted to build one.

 

[Rednexus]

I think it would probably be even easier to fabricate something similar to bolt to the factory GX hitch. The hardest part about building this one was the frame mounting plates. The frames have a weld bead down the bottom surface of the frame rails so it's not a smooth surface to mount to which is why the OEM hitch has that curvy edge where the bolts mount to the frame. I built this one in about 4 hours the night before an offroad trip, so I didn't have time to do a proper design, draw in CAD, make cut files and cut on my torch. It was all hand fab - mostly by eyeball and cardboard patterns. If I were building more than one - I would just copy the OEM hitch design for mounting. It's better than my one-off hand made version. With the OEM bolt on hitch you could just mount a plate directly to the vertical part of the hitch plate and bolt on from the sides and make just the two side wing parts. I had to add that crossmember across the bumper to stiffen up the assembly. I initially bent it to go under the hitch but it looked better going above so I flipped it over. I never took a 3d scan of it or any detailed measurements, but I have some pictures of how it is assembled to clear the exhaust I can PM you if you wanted to build one.

I might actually CAD design some frame plates and bolt mine to the side of the frame. I'd never be pulling from it - it would be for vertical hits only and to act as a bumper in the event of a collision. Then I could leave the rear hitch on most of the time as I tow often, but CAD design a wheeling-specific 1/4" steel plate that bolts in where the hitch bolts now, to protect the rear of the frame (with a single, large D-ring where the OEM pintle hitch bolts - for recovery purposes).

Most of my fabrication is a combination of CAD designing parts that SendCutSend cuts out and hand-fitting the rest. SendCutSend is getting kind of expensive for parts where I just need 1 or 2, so I'd like to get my own plasma cutter.

 

[Jetboy]

I might actually CAD design some frame plates and bolt mine to the side of the frame. I'd never be pulling from it - it would be for vertical hits only and to act as a bumper in the event of a collision. Then I could leave the rear hitch on most of the time as I tow often, but CAD design a wheeling-specific 1/4" steel plate that bolts in where the hitch bolts now, to protect the rear of the frame (with a single, large D-ring where the OEM pintle hitch bolts - for recovery purposes).

Most of my fabrication is a combination of CAD designing parts that SendCutSend cuts out and hand-fitting the rest. SendCutSend is getting kind of expensive for parts where I just need 1 or 2, so I'd like to get my own plasma cutter.
View attachment 3936605
View attachment 3936606

The problem you'll probably run into is that there aren't good mounting points on the sides of the rear frame rails and the rear frame rails have other stuff on them that will obstruct making simple plate mounts like you can do for sliders. The hitch mount bolts are the ideal spot to attach because they're already reinforced and ready to use. You'll probably have to drill new mounting holes if you want to mount to the sides of the frame rails. At that point - I'd just attach to the hitch instead. It's significantly heavier wall thickness and will allow fewer larger fasteners not to worry about tear out strength of the attachment points. Plus drilling the hitch is a lot less permanent.

I have a 4x8 foot water table plasma that is great for prototype use. It's just not as precise as the high end lasers that the cut shops use. And it is time consuming to setup and use and takes up a lot of shop space when it's not in use. But it is pretty handy to have for prototyping because you can make a part, test it, and modify very quickly to make adjustments. Unfortunately I've been living in Alaska for a couple years and all my tools are in storage 3,000 miles away. Can't way to get back to having a shop and tools again. Now I have to spend my shop time fishing and camping.

 

[Rednexus]

The problem you'll probably run into is that there aren't good mounting points on the sides of the rear frame rails and the rear frame rails have other stuff on them that will obstruct making simple plate mounts like you can do for sliders. The hitch mount bolts are the ideal spot to attach because they're already reinforced and ready to use. You'll probably have to drill new mounting holes if you want to mount to the sides of the frame rails. At that point - I'd just attach to the hitch instead. It's significantly heavier wall thickness and will allow fewer larger fasteners not to worry about tear out strength of the attachment points. Plus drilling the hitch is a lot less permanent.

I have a 4x8 foot water table plasma that is great for prototype use. It's just not as precise as the high end lasers that the cut shops use. And it is time consuming to setup and use and takes up a lot of shop space when it's not in use. But it is pretty handy to have for prototyping because you can make a part, test it, and modify very quickly to make adjustments. Unfortunately I've been living in Alaska for a couple years and all my tools are in storage 3,000 miles away. Can't way to get back to having a shop and tools again. Now I have to spend my shop time fishing and camping.

I don't mind drilling into the frame. I have 5th gen 4Runner rock sliders on my rig, so I've already added ~16 holes into the frame installed rivnuts into the frame to allow the sliders to bolt up. The 120 frame shares all holes with the 150, only the 150 has more. I would also not be opposed to sleeving the frame, which would be stronger than a rivnut.

But...to your point....I have a lot more engineering to do! Not really totally happy with any aftermarket rear bumper options for the GX470. They are either too heavy, too ugly, or don't integrate well with the OEM 6,500# receiver hitch. If I didn't tow with my rig, this would be a lot easier.

 

[GeoRoss]

From what I've heard those barn doors are pretty damn cool.

It really depends on the person. I’ve used them and found I prefer the split tailgate. I found the barn doors were always in the way and I missed having something to rest/stage things on.

 

[Jetboy]

There is a rear bumper from SSO that adds a tailgate concept to a 4Runner. Probably could come up with a similar design for the LC250. IMO it would be a hassle to open both every time you want to get in the back. One of many reasons I don't want a spare tire hanging on the back for a daily driver. But if folks aren't familiar with it - this does exist.

 

[Noctilucent]

That's cool to see. The 2nd gen 4Runners had tailgates too something that feels like it's fading away on lcs the last being the 200 which is kind of a shame. Back when I had a 4th gen I remember a guy who had gone from a 2nd gen to a 4th and missed the tailgate so much he actually built his own makeshift version just to bring that feature back and keep enjoying his model plane lifestyle. I think it's fair to say most of us prefer the split tailgate Edit: I found his old video of it in action!

 

[Noctilucent]

I was hoping to build something like this on the 250 but with the battery back there it adds another hurdle. I think it’s doable it’ll just take a bit more engineering if I decide to go that route down the line. I think the come along table will do for now. I alsom imagine some 300 owners who miss the tailgate would probably be interested in following in this guys footsteps.

 

[Hiluxforever]

I wonder how tightly packaged it is.

 

[Heckraiser]

Those 4runner shots also make me miss the seats where the bottom folds forward and the back folds flat to the cargo area. Both my 4runners and my 60/62 had that and they've got so much more cargo length. I could lay flat on the floor without uninstalling anything. The roll/tumble seats from the 80 and up just seem so huge and in the way by comparison.

 

[Hiluxforever]

Those 4runner shots also make me miss the seats where the bottom folds forward and the back folds flat to the cargo area. Both my 4runners and my 60/62 had that and they've got so much more cargo length. I could lay flat on the floor without uninstalling anything. The roll/tumble seats from the 80 and up just seem so huge and in the way by comparison.

The non tumble seats in the GX460 are significantly more comfortable than the tumble seats in the 5th gen 4runner.

We have both in our household and I hate riding in the 2nd row of the 4runner as much as I hate riding in the passenger seat.

 

[Heckraiser]

Our back seats rarely get sat in, and when they do, I'm not really concerned for their occupants comfort

 

[Rednexus]

Those 4runner shots also make me miss the seats where the bottom folds forward and the back folds flat to the cargo area. Both my 4runners and my 60/62 had that and they've got so much more cargo length. I could lay flat on the floor without uninstalling anything. The roll/tumble seats from the 80 and up just seem so huge and in the way by comparison.

I didn't realize my GX rear seats did not tumble until I slept in it a couple week after buying it. I had a relatively cramped/contorted night in the back of the rig, sleeping sideways. I was used to Subarus where they do fold flat, and slept in my Forester a number of times. Now I have drawers in my GX, but that still requires brining an add-on sleeping platform panel, and there is then not room to sit up.

 

[hoser]

I mean - AHC is the solution for low ride height, ride quality, and good ground clearance. Toyota already figured it out. They just decided to withhold it for only a very small production volume of vehicles. The R&D is all done and probably totally depreciated too. Now's the time to cash in on all that work! Make it a $5k stand alone option on all the GA-F platform models. It would make the Sequoia about a billion times more interesting. It would really improve my view of the TrailHunter 4Runner and Tacoma vs the domestic competitors on 35s. Toyota needs to let AHC shine not limit it to a few thousand global vehicles per year. And put it in the models that would make the most of it.

The AHC suspension design is actually quite old... just tweaked by Toyota.

Hydropneumatic suspension - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hoot504]

The whole angst from the enthusiasts is really perplexing academic whinging. Toyota is a business and they are in the business of making money. Not the business of making feel good juju with a tiny fraction of internet users who probably weren't going to buy the car anyway.

Particularly with the 200, unless you bought your 200 new, you don't have much ground to stand on. If you wanted to save the "full fat" Land Cruisers you should have bought a new one. If it was too expensive, you're just proving Toyota correct that making a cheaper, less "prestige" one was the move, since they are selling great. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

It's not just academic whinging. Cars are uniformly getting s***tier, from all makers. My two pride and joys are a 2018 and 2019, my GT3 and LC, respectively. I think both of these cars are absolute peak in their respective model lines but looking at the newer offering for both, the writing is on the wall and it isn't looking good.