Tinker's latest brutal review of LC250 (2 Viewers)

[Phillyd2]

Oh man, I am sure Toyota marketing secured huuuge bonuses for pulling off the "new land cruiser" stunt in the US.

The true genius was to streamline production AND not eat into 4R sales. Even if it did effect them slightly its still going in the same pocket. Internationally the 300 will continue to motor on. From the company view its win win win. The few of is in North America? Oh well. To most soul is overrated

 

[Noctilucent]

Oh man, I am sure Toyota marketing secured huuuge bonuses for pulling off the "new land cruiser" stunt in the US.

Nah it wasn’t a stunt, and yes they’re making a lot from the lc250, Good! anyway, It’s definitely the ''new Land Cruiser''. It’s a Land Cruiser Prado and yeah it’s still a Land Cruiser. For instance let’s pretend they brought the 70 to the U.S. I would bet Toyota would’ve said the same exact thing without mentioning in that it's the heavy duty land cruiser during announcements etc, because guess what? It’s a Land Cruiser. And if they brought the 300 (which I think they eventually will), they would’ve said the same because, well… it’s a Land Cruiser. It wasn’t'' a stunt'' it’s just the truth. Unfortunately, most people are uninformed when buying any vehicle and don't do their research. It’s up to the buyer to do their research. Bottom line is that is the new Land Cruiser. It is. No tricks, no sleight of hand none of that. Folks just need to research on what they’re buying. It is what it is a Land Cruiser. Just my take. It’s hard enough explaining the lineup to people here on a damn lc forum. Some still think Land Cruiser Prados aren’t even part of the family. Imagine trying to educate the average buyer during an announcement that this is the light duty Land Cruiser. Again it’s the consumer’s responsibility to know what they’re buying. just my rational take on it.

 

[Rednexus]

I doubt any of that would matter if you daily drove it you're smile would increase. I like the fact that the drive train share the same components as the 4R/GX I see this as a massive pro not a con. More Parts, and a bigger pool of experienced etc. As far as the speed *shrug* it's plenty fast. The Price? No way is this a 50k rig espeically the premium at 50k I'd feel I would have stolen the thing! mpg is actually decent on mine avrg 20mpg in the city way higher on the hwy. Keep your gx man. If it makes you happy keep it. But I assure you the 250 is not a rip off. you get exactly what you pay for if this is the configuration that you need. There's a lot of IFS we wish for. Just find the rig that comes closest to meeting all your needs. None will be perfect, but hopefully, you can get close. For me it might be a 200 with the most powerful inverter I can find and an extended fuel tank and a modded screen. Or a modded 250 with a slide out tailgate and hope for an extended fuel tank in the future..

I highly doubt a Turbo 4/hybrid powertrain will make me smile like my tuned 2UZ-FE with headers, a CAI, exhaust, and 4.56 gears does . And that's coming from someone who has put thousands of miles on our NA 4-banger/hybrid Highlander. The Highlander is an exceptional good appliance (it's actually de-stressing to drive as it's so smooth/quiet), but it doesn't give a whole lot smiles, other than looking at the MPG meter (and when it takes $17 to fill it up!). But, I'll still test drive a LC250 in the future to confirm.

When I need a new SUV a used GX550 will be in the running. It's around 200# lighter than the LC250, has the bigger 9.5" rear diff, and a very good tow rating. I personally see the GX550 as more of a LC200 replacement than a GX460 replacement, as it's definitely a different class of vehicle than the 460 was in terms of size/power/tow capacity/drivetrain components.

 

[Noctilucent]

I highly doubt a Turbo 4/hybrid powertrain will make me smile like my tuned 2UZ-FE with headers, a CAI, exhaust, and 4.56 gears does . And that's coming from someone who has put thousands of miles on our NA 4-banger/hybrid Highlander. The Highlander is an exceptional good appliance (it's actually de-stressing to drive as it's so smooth/quiet), but it doesn't give a whole lot smiles, other than looking at the MPG meter (and when it takes $17 to fill it up!). But, I'll still test drive a LC250 in the future to confirm.

When I need a new SUV a used GX550 will be in the running. It's around 200# lighter than the LC250, has the bigger 9.5" rear diff, and a very good tow rating. I personally see the GX550 as more of a LC200 replacement than a GX460 replacement, as it's definitely a different class of vehicle than the 460 was in terms of size/power/tow capacity/drivetrain components.

their all good choices it depends on what speaks to your lifestyle the most. From what it sounds like I think your hearts with a Gx old or new. Remember, the 2400w inverter in the 4R and LC is their Superpower it’s up there with the LX700h. So also consider that when checking out the 250.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Nah it wasn’t a stunt, and yes they’re making a lot from the lc250, Good! anyway, It’s definitely the ''new Land Cruiser''. It’s a Land Cruiser Prado and yeah it’s still a Land Cruiser. For instance let’s pretend they brought the 70 to the U.S. I would bet Toyota would’ve said the same exact thing without mentioning in that it's the heavy duty land cruiser during announcements etc, because guess what? It’s a Land Cruiser. And if they brought the 300 (which I think they eventually will), they would’ve said the same because, well… it’s a Land Cruiser. It wasn’t'' a stunt'' it’s just the truth. Unfortunately, most people are uninformed when buying any vehicle and don't do their research. It’s up to the buyer to do their research. Bottom line is that is the new Land Cruiser. It is. No tricks, no sleight of hand none of that. Folks just need to research on what they’re buying. It is what it is a Land Cruiser. Just my take. It’s hard enough explaining the lineup to people here on a damn lc forum. Some still think Land Cruiser Prados aren’t even part of the family. Imagine trying to educate the average buyer during an announcement that this is the light duty Land Cruiser. Again it’s the consumer’s responsibility to know what they’re buying. just my rational take on it.

Toyota can barely meet international demand for the 300 as it is. I don't see a world where they bring it to NA. They will position the LX700h as the NA 300.

This is where all of our angst comes from, you see. We just want a new fattie off the lot with warranty and the warm and fuzzies. And they won't let us have one. Much sad.

P.S. I am seeing more and more 250s down here in Florida. They are exceptionally attractive vehicles. Glad to hear that you are enjoying it. Drive it in good health.

P.P.S. When we all sell our cruisers for 2027 Panda 4x4s none of this will matter anyways.

 

[Jetboy]

Not a bad thought and I've been thinking to pull the front axle/arms forward by an inch sometimes. After some analysis, it's not really necessary and there are significant trades to axle loading. From an overall vehicle perspective, the golden ratio gets more things right than wrong as it's all about balance. Toyota's golden ratio concept goes pretty deep in their philosophy and design, and is even reflected in their logo.

One of the great assets of the compact wheelbase is its excellent agility for a full size rig. While not trading stability. From an approach/breakover/departure, it's usually the departure that's the first limitation anyways. Even modded, this balance still holds.

View attachment 3932281

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On 37s, AHC High, .75" body lift
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I think it depends a lot on what you're wanting to do. If the idea is to never touch a body panel, that's what Toyota is looking for. But if the idea is to get over these hardest obstacles - then you plan on skids and sliding on armor at times. Sliding off a rear bumper is usually a non issue. Ramming a front bumper into a rock face doesn't usually go very well. Comparing a side by side with similar wheelbase to a LC on the trail, the sxs often lower break over will easily run circles around the magic ratio setup in technical terrain. The same is true for an fj40 or Wrangler.

 

[rexington14]

Toyota can barely meet international demand for the 300 as it is. I don't see a world where they bring it to NA. They will position the LX700h as the NA 300.

This is where all of our angst comes from, you see. We just want a new fattie off the lot with warranty and the warm and fuzzies. And they won't let us have one. Much sad.

Why such angst though? You own a 2021 LC, correct? Stay out of the dealership, save your money, and just drive the damn thing.

The 200 owner angst in particular is so puzzling to me. You all have the newest "real" Land Cruisers. The real deal. Full fat. 25 year service life. You shouldn't need to replace them for a long, long time. (Unless it gets totaled, or you are one of the unlucky ones who's 5.7L drops a valve, throws a rod, and/or blows a head gasket for no good reason)

 

[Mingus Dew]

Why such angst though? You own a 2021 LC, correct? Stay out of the dealership, save your money, and just drive the damn thing.

The 200 owner angst in particular is so puzzling to me. You all have the newest "real" Land Cruisers. The real deal. Full fat. 25 year service life. You shouldn't need to replace them for a long, long time. (Unless it gets totaled, or you are one of the unlucky ones who's 5.7L drops a valve, throws a rod, and/or blows a head gasket for no good reason)

My post was somewhat tongue in cheek in the "why can't we all be friends" vein.

I agree with you of course. But it's always nice to have that new vehicle and warranty piece of mind, at least for me.

I'm a newcomer to this community as it is. I'm just happy to be here.

 

[Rednexus]

Why such angst though? You own a 2021 LC, correct? Stay out of the dealership, save your money, and just drive the damn thing.

The 200 owner angst in particular is so puzzling to me. You all have the newest "real" Land Cruisers. The real deal. Full fat. 25 year service life. You shouldn't need to replace them for a long, long time. (Unless it gets totaled, or you are one of the unlucky ones who's 5.7L drops a valve, throws a rod, and/or blows a head gasket for no good reason)

Very good point - there is no reason a well-maintained, later-model LC200 can't still be on the road in 2045 or so. We have plenty of 80s running around today that are ~30 years old, after all, and the oldest 100 is 27 years old. I'll be into my 60s in 2045, many current 200 drivers may be near or past the end of their driving age by then. Even if the 3UR eats a head gasket, they can be replaced. Being that Toyota still sells about every single part for my GX470, I'm betting parts availability will still be good for the LC200 in 2045.

 

[Knowbuddy]

Why such angst though? You own a 2021 LC, correct? Stay out of the dealership, save your money, and just drive the damn thing.

The 200 owner angst in particular is so puzzling to me. You all have the newest "real" Land Cruisers. The real deal. Full fat. 25 year service life. You shouldn't need to replace them for a long, long time. (Unless it gets totaled, or you are one of the unlucky ones who's 5.7L drops a valve, throws a rod, and/or blows a head gasket for no good reason)

I love this statement. If the 200 is as great as people say it is…why do you need a replacement other than the unexpected accident.

-owner of an old beat up 2008 200-

Also I want a Panda 4x4 ever since living in Italy

 

[Zill]

I feel the same way about the ride quality and would like to know if anyone here can explain why that is? I have driven now two 250 premiums, a 550 premium and OT+, and 6th gen 4R SR5 and TRD OR. All of them have a firmer, harsher ride than my 200 or even my 5th gen 4R TRD Pro (that one may be due to the fox suspension). Is it just a matter of fine tuning suspension on these new models?

I’ve had a hard time putting my finger on it, but I believe it boils down to the prior gen trucks giving more progressive give in the suspension before it starts to tighten up over bumps.

The 250 felt jittery on the road and would jostle you back and forth on even little imperfections, but a 200 will absorb much of those without sending them into the cabin, but when it hits a harder bump, it will give a smoother compressive stroke and less of a harsh stroke like on the 250.

One other thing, is all of these new powertrains have an unnatural feeling with dramatic power spikes, and doesn’t have the linear and smooth power of a NA engine.

 

[MRego]

This is where all of our angst comes from, you see. We just want a new fattie off the lot with warranty and the warm and fuzzies. And they won't let us have one.

Not only that. They told us you have one. It's the "new land cruiser"! Go buy while it lasts! Oh, and don't mind that other thing we sell overseas.

 

[Phillyd2]

Not only that. They told us you have one. It's the "new land cruiser"! Go buy while it lasts! Oh, and don't mind that other thing we sell overseas.

Oh oh, and it's really no different than a 4Runner but we'll add / subtract an option or two so you can crow how different it is online.

 

[calokie]

Interesting points yet it is all about taste. I find the 200 series together with the 80 series the best looking Land Cruisers and very much like the High Lander from that period as well. It does not try hard, looks timeless yet functional and will be loved for decades to come.

As to bloated, I also like that part of the 80 and 200 series looks and interesting enough 200 and 250 have similar outer dimensions yet inside the 200 has more room, both width and length including a much better space and seating position in the second row. Perfect how they used the outer round form to add inside space. Amazing how a new design uses the space/footprint so poorly.

Regarding 250 looks, it is boxy and tries too hard and very much reminds me of the failed boxy 2008 to 2012 Jeep Liberty. Then when you sit inside, close doors and drive it all feels RAV4 cheap and plastic and 4 banger noise coming on and off at odd times with the combined hybrid tech. I really do not get why somebody would not buy a 2016+ LX570 or LC200 with say 100k miles on it and drive it to 350k or so instead of getting a new (or newer) 250 at similar pricing.

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Data as to dimensions. The 200 seires is 1.77 inch taller and 2.66 inch longer

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Yet the same width thanks to the 250 fenders sticking out
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easy answer, head gasket failure = cast iron block replacement, oh and the 14(ish) MPG and super crapy infotainment system and well "dey jus ugly" except the LX

 

[TWILLY]

It’s not about social exclusivity, but rather, how the 250 does not hold up to the LC nameplate, and we don’t have a replacement rig after the 200’s start to wear out overtime if we want to keep the Toyota badge. It doesn’t ride nearly as good as the 200 (even old 200’s with 200k+ miles), but it’s brand new and 17 year newer technology? What other manufacturer is doing that to their top end product?

Did they really need to cheap out on the LC and put it below the 4Runner in terms of running gear? The new top executives at Toyota are going down the wrong path, and Akio would have never signed off on this being the only LC offered here without having some guilt involved with that decision. The new executives? They’re in it to make a quick buck, and have no qualms to trick people and ride on the LC reputation that was built for 55+ years.

Coming from a 200 owner, the 250 doesn’t hold up to what I expect from a LC, and yes many owners are somewhat enjoying their 250 (especially the ones coming from a wrangler or a 5th gen 4Runner), but they’re missing out on so much more compared to the full size LC platform. I hope they don’t drive a 200 or they will feel the same feeling. Ignorance is bliss I guess…

Seldom are people jumping from a 200 to a 250 and thoroughly enjoying the experience after the new car honeymoon wears off, and that’s also coming from people who’s 200’s are getting long in the tooth. The 250 doesn’t scratch the itch, and we need to look for greener pastures elsewhere (not from Toyota).

 

[TWILLY]

This forum needs a 200 series owner grief counselor.

 

[rexington14]

Very good point - there is no reason a well-maintained, later-model LC200 can't still be on the road in 2045 or so. We have plenty of 80s running around today that are ~30 years old, after all, and the oldest 100 is 27 years old. I'll be into my 60s in 2045, many current 200 drivers may be near or past the end of their driving age by then. Even if the 3UR eats a head gasket, they can be replaced. Being that Toyota still sells about every single part for my GX470, I'm betting parts availability will still be good for the LC200 in 2045.

A 3UR HG can go and be replaced just as long as the aluminum block doesn't go with it. Otherwise, it's time for a new motor. And unless the costs to acquire and install a 3UR into a 200 come down that is going to total the majority of these out as they get older and continue to depreciate. (There's multiple reports here of $15k-$20k all-in for this job.)

Can you imagine an 80 / 100 owner that loses their motor today spending $20k to swap a used motor in? With at best a couple of months of a warranty? Because I can't. Take it to the crusher.

And I have no trouble getting OEM parts for my 2 older Toyota's either. With all of the dealer 25% off parts sales events we see Toyota's actual true markup on these parts must be insanely high. I can't imagine Toyota and their suppliers giving up that revenue by discontinuing parts production on these vehicles anytime soon.

 

[Phillyd2]

The horsey should be left in the barn if it bruises so easily.

 

[TeCKis300]

I think it depends a lot on what you're wanting to do. If the idea is to never touch a body panel, that's what Toyota is looking for. But if the idea is to get over these hardest obstacles - then you plan on skids and sliding on armor at times. Sliding off a rear bumper is usually a non issue. Ramming a front bumper into a rock face doesn't usually go very well. Comparing a side by side with similar wheelbase to a LC on the trail, the sxs often lower break over will easily run circles around the magic ratio setup in technical terrain. The same is true for an fj40 or Wrangler.

Yup, all about use case. It's easy enough to critique about what is wrong or could be better, but there is so much right and goodness. Vehicles aren't built in a vacuum and overall balance and packaging is what's at play. The LC is not a rock crawler, nor SXS, or Wrangler. Yet it can do that and many many other things well. We have LCs for Toyota's sensibilities. Things like the full size spare fully underneath is part of the why. When the full fat LC has won the Baja 1000 in its current form, numerous times, it's a relative pinnacle for others to strive for. Not the other way around. The LC250 can thank the full fat LC for that winning template.

At least for the LC250, may not want to further expose its breakover. One of hallmarks of the full fat Land Cruiser is everything tucked up high and tight. The LC250 only approximates that. With hybrid features further exacerbating clearance at key points. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine vehicle in its own right. But this is why it shines from the shadow of Toyota's higher end models.

 

[Noctilucent]

Shadow or not, the ‘Fat’ LC really lives up to its nickname and yeah, the 250 beat the 200 this time. But at the end of the day, it’s not just the vehicle that makes a Land Cruiser it’s the community around it. Let’s keep our standards high and respect each other no matter what LC we drive Fat or whatever.