Tinker's latest brutal review of LC250 (5 Viewers)

[Jetboy]

OR, instead of investing billions and billions to create an entire new vehicle/niche (costs billions even with 'shared' parts), just send us vehicles that are already designed, being built, and fit into the lineup

just saved billions AND gave the people what they want

The problem is the Sequoia exists in the USA. There's really no reason to have a LC when the Sequoia and 4Runner fill the two market segments. In the USA market where full size SUVs are more popular it seems to make more sense to add a few LC components to the Sequoia (awd transfer case and KDSS or AHC) for the regional HD SUV.

 

[onemanarmy]

even further proved my point.....we have the 4runner/tacoma and Sequoia/Tundra to fit and fill the mid and full size catagories (and then the highlander, grand highlander XL, rav4, corolla cross for all the family hauling duties...)

toyota has -zero- in the USA to compete with the Wrangler and Bronco

so, with the billions it takes to make a new vehicle.....take the the 70 frame and axles, keep the 4.0 and its auto, add some softer springs for USA wussies, tweak the gearing for US highways, and make a removable top/door new 2-door 40 and 4-door 45. With as many parts bin pieces as possible....even use the $60 headlight kit that we all use to retrofit our old stuff.
The entire thing is so obvious and transparent and perfect.

And then use the untold amount of self made marketing materials to harken back to the old school cool, history, expeditions, conquering the world images and vids to market it with. They would not have to create anything new.....just reuse the trove of old materials.

this is why I hate the 250....cause what could have been

 

[Mingus Dew]

even further proved my point.....we have the 4runner/tacoma and Sequoia/Tundra to fit and fill the mid and full size catagories (and then the highlander, grand highlander XL, rav4, corolla cross for all the family hauling duties...)

toyota has -zero- in the USA to compete with the Wrangler and Bronco

so, with the billions it takes to make a new vehicle.....take the the 70 frame and axles, keep the 4.0 and its auto, add some softer springs for USA wussies, tweak the gearing for US highways, and make a removable top/door new 2-door 40 and 4-door 45. With as many parts bin pieces as possible....even use the $60 headlight kit that we all use to retrofit our old stuff.
The entire thing is so obvious and transparent and perfect.

And then use the untold amount of self made marketing materials to harken back to the old school cool, history, expeditions, conquering the world images and vids to market it with. They would not have to create anything new.....just reuse the trove of old materials.

this is why I hate the 250....cause what could have been

You don't think people are cross-shopping the Bronco and the 4runner/250? I think they absolutely are - all are vey capable off-roaders that most people will keep on the pavement. They also come in varying levels of refinement with creature comforts galore. It's the same segment.

The Wrangler sure. Toyota doesn't really have a North American bare-bones completely purpose-built smaller off road vehicle that drives and rides badly on pavement.

 

[onemanarmy]

people cross shop all sorts of things, can't stop that.

so get the 4runner or a bronco. Hundreds of trims to choose from on both.

but yep.....there is a super obvious gap in the Yota line up that writes itself......make a 40/45 out of a 70 series frame and axles and a low stressed engine with longevity in mind, with parts bin parts, and compete. Now we actually have a Land Cruiser sold in the States again. The parts exist. The marketing exists.

i say lets do it!

 

[Jetboy]

Either the 4Runner or the new LC should have been a bronco/wrangler competitor. Making both the same and neither playing in that world is a huge miss IMO. I don't really care if it has a solid front axle. TBH I'd probably prefer IFS for my mixed use, but I'm mostly indifferent. Just make the top come off, doors removeable, same wheelbase but shorter rear overhang and spare tire hung on the back. 35s or 37s. Print money.

Someone at Toyota gets it.

Whatever happened to this?

 

[onemanarmy]

Can you imagine a TRD Pro version of a Wrangler Rubicon competitor?!

High fenders, 35s stock, frt, rr, center switchable lockers in solid axles, manual transmission, skids, removable top and doors?!

Yep. Print money.

 

[Specialeyes]

Either the 4Runner or the new LC should have been a bronco/wrangler competitor. Making both the same and neither playing in that world is a huge miss IMO. I don't really care if it has a solid front axle. TBH I'd probably prefer IFS for my mixed use, but I'm mostly indifferent. Just make the top come off, doors removeable, same wheelbase but shorter rear overhang and spare tire hung on the back. 35s or 37s. Print money.

Someone at Toyota gets it.
View attachment 3931515

Whatever happened to this?
View attachment 3931514

Having driven all of the new models at least twice now I have to agree with you. Turns out the 250 and 4Runner behave VERY similar in driving dynamics and road manners. The only reason IMO to opt for the 250 is to get the “complete package” so to speak with the full time 4wd, locking center and rear diffs. You also get a much nicer interior with regards to layout and materials. Regardless both are selling really well right now. Most 4Runners and premium pack 250’s (not the 1958) show “sale pending” if you search Toyota’s website. The ones I got to test drive were one off’s that sold a day or two later.

 

[Jetboy]

Having driven all of the new models at least twice now I have to agree with you. Turns out the 250 and 4Runner behave VERY similar in driving dynamics and road manners. The only reason IMO to opt for the 250 is to get the “complete package” so to speak with the full time 4wd, locking center and rear diffs. You also get a much nicer interior with regards to layout and materials. Regardless both are selling really well right now. Most 4Runners and premium pack 250’s (not the 1958) show “sale pending” if you search Toyota’s website. The ones I got to test drive were one off’s that sold a day or two later.

I did not like the 4Runner - the combination of lower roof and higher beltline along with the super long hood is not good. I'd say it's bad enough that it will likely never be in my driveway. It's just not a very nice plate to look out from in a vehicle that should optimize the view out. The LC250 is far better in that respect. I would prefer the powertrain of the 4Runner without the hybrid system. But I'd get an LC because of how bad the 4Runner body is. Not to mention that the rear seat configuration is notably worse than the prior gen in terms of rear passenger space and seat comfort. It's effectively a kid's only 2nd row now that previously fit full size adults in both rows.

 

[Specialeyes]

I did not like the 4Runner - the combination of lower roof and higher beltline along with the super long hood is not good. I'd say it's bad enough that it will likely never be in my driveway. It's just not a very nice plate to look out from in a vehicle that should optimize the view out. The LC250 is far better in that respect. I would prefer the powertrain of the 4Runner without the hybrid system. But I'd get an LC because of how bad the 4Runner body is. Not to mention that the rear seat configuration is notably worse than the prior gen in terms of rear passenger space and seat comfort. It's effectively a kid's only 2nd row now that previously fit full size adults in both rows.

I’ve pretty confidently ruled out that neither are for me. At least in their current state. Been looking at Tacoma’s lately but that’s about it as far as Toyota is concerned. I’ll have an opportunity to purchase a 550 again in a few weeks but I’m honestly not all that excited about it.

 

[onemanarmy]

yea...that new 4runner design is garbage.

not sure what the point was with it.

(maybe to push people to the 250?)

 

[Noctilucent]

I couldn't get past the hulk hogan double mustash lol. The inside seems like it was designed for the youthful broccoli head kids, the gimmicky detachable speaker and light just to gimmick for my taste.

 

[TeCKis300]

Let's all punch down on the little brother and stick em where it hurts most with a big ol subjective ugly...

 

[MRego]

Let's all punch down on the little brother and stick em where it hurts most with a big ol subjective ugly...

No, no, no. Apparently only 200 owners can do that with the poor little Prado.

 

[SanJuanJ]

even further proved my point.....we have the 4runner/tacoma and Sequoia/Tundra to fit and fill the mid and full size catagories (and then the highlander, grand highlander XL, rav4, corolla cross for all the family hauling duties...)

toyota has -zero- in the USA to compete with the Wrangler and Bronco

so, with the billions it takes to make a new vehicle.....take the the 70 frame and axles, keep the 4.0 and its auto, add some softer springs for USA wussies, tweak the gearing for US highways, and make a removable top/door new 2-door 40 and 4-door 45. With as many parts bin pieces as possible....even use the $60 headlight kit that we all use to retrofit our old stuff.
The entire thing is so obvious and transparent and perfect.

And then use the untold amount of self made marketing materials to harken back to the old school cool, history, expeditions, conquering the world images and vids to market it with. They would not have to create anything new.....just reuse the trove of old materials.

this is why I hate the 250....cause what could have been

Except the market for new 200s in the US was those with family hauling duties and almost nobody else.

 

[SanJuanJ]

I couldn't get past the hulk hogan double mustash lol. The inside seems like it was designed for the youthful broccoli head kids, the gimmicky detachable speaker and light just to gimmick for my taste. View attachment 3931576

They went full Toyota Bro. Never go full Toyota Bro.

 

[TeCKis300]

No, no, no. Apparently only 200 owners can do that with the poor little Prado.

Maybe a short story. Once upon a time in a cluttered garage there lived many hammers. Each boasted proudly about their specialty and purpose. They could go round and round about how each was better or more essential. Your standard 16oz claw hammer insisted she was the favorite and good for any DIY job. Dead blow always reserved, quiet, and held himself with confidence control. Old man sledge was broad, mighty, with a lean but rarely left his corner. Each knew they could do each others job in a pinch, and had a place in the garage for a purpose.

I think we all understand that last part - purpose or use case - is what differentiates hammers. That's not meant to make other hammers feel lesser so there's no need to get defensive. I really do like them all.

Toyota's sledge has historically been the full fat Land Cruiser. It was the biggest overbuilt hammer for the hardest jobs, regularly overloaded in mining use or harsh military applications. Sure, the tarted up consumer versions got some unique innovations and luxuries. Driving penny nails and going to the mall may not have been optimal, but some choose to do it that way because that's what they liked. So while the LC meant different things to different people, it also meant it always did the job because that's what Toyota's biggest top shelf hammer did.

So when is a LC no longer an LC? Probably many answers.

But when it's not cut to do the biggest jobs, that's not casting shade on the LC250. Just a fact that a new "trim" by the name of LC250, is not meant for the biggest jobs. Leave that to old man sledge. Or pay price of entry for a LX600/700H.

If anyone's ever tried to host a family of 4 out of a Toyota wagon for long weekend trips, might understand why sledge can be a better answer. Sure, full size truck or sequoia, but those vehicles have too much wheelbase for real technical wheeling. There is something real about Toyota's golden ratio and how every one of Toyota's adventure wagons now share the perfect 112.2" wheelbase full fat Land Cruisers have used for generations.

 

[hoser]

Indeed they did. The reasoning doesn't matter - the rating is the rating. The majority of LX570s on the road are only rated to tow 7000 lbs - which is hardly "full fat" ... a hybrid LC250 with half the cylinders tows only 1k lbs less. And the new "reduced fat?" GX Prado tows 2000 lbs(!) more.

This is what US auto manufacturers have to contend with.... the layman that buys based on a rated tow capacity. Manufacturers don't need to adhere to any tow standard, they can rate it what they want. The LX changed tow capacity because Toyota changed the way they rated towing capacity. And the difference between the 200 and the LX570 is because of the AHC suspension and its load capacity. AHC is certainly tuned for comfort but can easily be uprated for more weight.

What a conundrum for Toyota... should they advertise a higher rating and sell more vehicles? There is a competitive war for towing capacity lately amongst manufacturers that didn't exist 15 years ago.

But guess what... in Australia, the 200, 300, 250 (all versions sold there) are rated the same... 3500 kg when equipped with trailer brakes. Same as the 80 and 100. Now what? A rating is a rating, right, Layman?

 

[joseywales]

Alas now that I have added you to my “ignore” list, it won’t let me quote you, so luckily a picture is worth 1,000 words…

 

[hoser]

All the LC talk is well and good but can we go back to the Panda please?

I would choose a Suzuki Samurai, Vitara or Jimny over the Panda. Pandas are unibody.... we call those disposable off-road vehicles. No transfer case, just a low 1st gear due to final drive ratios. But what if you upsize the 25" tires... how low can you go on the thirds? I've seen Pandas too. They are cool small vehicles. But they are predominately FWD city cars turned into off-road vehicles... not the other way around.

 

[onemanarmy]

Except the market for new 200s in the US was those with family hauling duties and almost nobody else.

because they were not marketed properly.
they were sold beside 20k corollas in the dealer
we didn't get all the awesome trim packages, and the cheaper versions
we didn't get interesting engine and trans choices
they had the LX570 for the luxury crowd, so we should have gotten the cloth seat, no screens, coil spring, minimal plastic, ready for adventure models.