Timing cover, timing plate, or oil pan leak?! -- Diving in TOMORROW regardless (1 Viewer)

[Beehanger]

Got my newly rebuilt engine running, and noticed a slow drip coming from the timing cover area. There was a mix of coolant and oil, and after confriming the Hose of death on the underside of the waterpump was leaking ( PN 90910-05155) I assumed this was my only issue. I tightened a clamp and it stopped the coolant leak (but I think there's still a ruptrue somehwere and need to replace this hose anyway) BUT NOT the oil leak. I can't confirm exactly where it is coming from but sure seems its oozing out from underneath the bolts bottom that go on the timing cover. I'm pretty sure I used blue thread sealer on those big bolts, and I've already torqued down allt cover bolts anotehr half turn and it actually made the leak A LOT WORSE.

Not sure what the cause is, I've already read other threads like this one: Timing cover gasket....What am I doing wrong? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/timing-cover-gasket-what-am-i-doing-wrong.811723/

Getting about a drip every two seconds, ONLY leaks when its running.



I've never had to diagnose leaks before and this is my first rodeo, and the last thing I want to do is go ripping stuff off without knowing what the issue is and how to fix it. So my questions and possible issues are:

1.) before I dive in I want to know how I can diagnose if the timing gear plate got warped from the mahcine shop overtigthening the oil nozzle. How can you tell this and how to fix it?
2.) I used gasketcinch on the timing gasket if I recall correctly, but after reading that other guys used ultra grey RTV i'm wondering if I messed this up!
3. The last potneital cause i've seen so far is from the oil pan, which I don't think I used RTV on the corners for the gasket....


Trying to do this the first try, and not have 3 or 4 tries like others have...


Thanks,
Dan

 

[Beehanger]

Got my newly rebuilt engine running, and noticed a slow drip coming from the timing cover area. There was a mix of coolant and oil, and after confriming the Hose of death on the underside of the waterpump was leaking ( PN 90910-05155) I assumed this was my only issue. I tightened a clamp and it stopped the coolant leak (but I think there's still a ruptrue somehwere and need to replace this hose anyway) BUT NOT the oil leak. I can't confirm exactly where it is coming from but sure seems its oozing out from underneath the bolts bottom that go on the timing cover. I'm pretty sure I used blue thread sealer on those big bolts, and I've already torqued down allt cover bolts anotehr half turn and it actually made the leak A LOT WORSE.

Not sure what the cause is, I've already read other threads like this one: Timing cover gasket....What am I doing wrong? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/timing-cover-gasket-what-am-i-doing-wrong.811723/



I've never had to diagnose leaks before and this is my first rodeo, and the last thing I want to do is go ripping stuff off without knowing what the issue is and how to fix it. So my questions and possible issues are:

1.) before I dive in I want to know how I can diagnose if the timing gear plate got warped from the mahcine shop overtigthening the oil nozzle. How can you tell this and how to fix it?
2.) I used gasketcinch on the timing gasket if I recall correctly, but after reading that other guys used ultra grey RTV i'm wondering if I messed this up!
3. The last potneital cause i've seen so far is from the oil pan, which I don't think I used RTV on the corners for the gasket....


Trying to do this the first try, and not have 3 or 4 tries like others have...


Thanks,
Dan

Also wondering if I can try really torquing the bolts and see if this fixes the issue, or since I'm getting 1 drip every 2 seconds if its too far gone. I have little epxerience in this so figured I'd ask: If a cork gasket seal is already leaky can it truly be rectified by tightening?

 

[bcolvin]

I would start by looking over the various threads about the timing cover gasket. That thing can be a pain. Took me a few attempts to get it right. It’s a do it by feel thing as much as following the manual. A couple of the tricks that helped

Don’t tighten bolts until harmonic balancer is put in.

Tighten bolts until gasket slightly bulges. Don’t let the torque wrench dictate the snugness.

I used aircraft sealant on my last go. I had more success.

Flatten out the lip of the oil pan.

Now you should start out by snugging up any loose bolts. Do this until a slight bulge. If you over tightened you will need to go back in and redo it. After you screw up this process a few time you get pretty good at getting in there.

 

[Beehanger]

I would start by looking over the various threads about the timing cover gasket. That thing can be a pain. Took me a few attempts to get it right. It’s a do it by feel thing as much as following the manual. A couple of the tricks that helped

Don’t tighten bolts until harmonic balancer is put in.

Tighten bolts until gasket slightly bulges. Don’t let the torque wrench dictate the snugness.

I used aircraft sealant on my last go. I had more success.

Flatten out the lip of the oil pan.

Now you should start out by snugging up any loose bolts. Do this until a slight bulge. If you over tightened you will need to go back in and redo it. After you screw up this process a few time you get pretty good at getting in there.

Cool, thanks. do you have to pull the radiator/ fan? Also curious if I need to drop the pan to flatten out the bulge you're talking about or not.

IF the front of the pan is leaking... can this appear to be a timing leak as well? I can't recall if we used RTV on corners or front of the pan.

 

[rfj62]

front end plate gasket leaking

Hey guys, I was looking for some advice on replacing the front end plate gasket, since I didn't do it right the first time. To make a long story short I got a new short block from Toyota for my '89 FJ62 because of some internal damage. I took the old engine out set it next to the new engine and...

forum.ih8mud.com

I had the same problem after putting in an engine. I would check out the cam oiler, if they tightened it down instead of staking it, it will push out the front end plate, as the cam oiler hits the hits the block and pushes it out.

 

[cps432]

I bet the cork gasket is torn. The first time I did this job I overtightened the bottom bolts and split the gasket. It leaked immediately.

The only way to actually fix the gasket is to remove the radiator and fan again and pull the harmonic balancer. Clean the surfaces up and try again with more attention to detail. It’s probably the trickiest gasket to get right next to the old school 4 piece oil pan gasket.

I would spring for a new Toyota gasket and crank seal, real Toyota branded FIPG, and possibly a new set of studs and bolts for the timing cover. I fixed mine twice before I got all new Toyota parts and it finally stopped leaking.

There are a lot of moving parts here. Lots of bolts. Different sizes and torque specs that are kinda more of a loose guideline. You have to get the crank seal centered correctly or you’ll have a leak there. Everything has to be done right in order to get a leak free seal.

Take your time and make sure everything is really clean and flat. Be gentile with the cork gasket and the crank seal. Make sure it’s got a light coating of oil on it before you install the HB or you risk tearing it and getting a leak.

The last time I did this I installed the cover and installed three or for bolts very lightly just to keep it in place. Then I installed the HB to center the cover. Then I tightened the loose bolts just enough to keep the cover from shifting. I then removed the HB again and installed the rest of the bolts. Follow the directions on the FIPG packaging for installation. Usually tighten to finger tight and wait an hour and then finish tightening. Be very careful not to over tighten and split the gasket. It’s really important. Once you’re done tightening the bolts you can reinstall the HB and torque to final specs. It is also very important to torque that nut to the proper specs or you’ll have a bad day in the future.

 

[OSS]

it could also possibly be the gasket behind the timing cover gear plate. To get at that is an immense job. horrible. Not recommended.

Try using a high-mileage formulated motor oil. It has something in it that helps swell seals and stop leaks. It definitely works for some leaks. (Mobil 10w-40 High Mileage).

 

[tmxmotorsports]

Also certain bolts go in certain places due to length and can bend the timing plate not the cover to fix a bent plate you will need to remove the camshaft.

 

[OSS]

 

[Beehanger]

Also certain bolts go in certain places due to length and can bend the timing plate not the cover to fix a bent plate you will need to remove the camshaft.

How can one tell if this is the location of a leak?

 

[Beehanger]

I bet the cork gasket is torn. The first time I did this job I overtightened the bottom bolts and split the gasket. It leaked immediately.

The only way to actually fix the gasket is to remove the radiator and fan again and pull the harmonic balancer. Clean the surfaces up and try again with more attention to detail. It’s probably the trickiest gasket to get right next to the old school 4 piece oil pan gasket.

I would spring for a new Toyota gasket and crank seal, real Toyota branded FIPG, and possibly a new set of studs and bolts for the timing cover. I fixed mine twice before I got all new Toyota parts and it finally stopped leaking.

There are a lot of moving parts here. Lots of bolts. Different sizes and torque specs that are kinda more of a loose guideline. You have to get the crank seal centered correctly or you’ll have a leak there. Everything has to be done right in order to get a leak free seal.

Take your time and make sure everything is really clean and flat. Be gentile with the cork gasket and the crank seal. Make sure it’s got a light coating of oil on it before you install the HB or you risk tearing it and getting a leak.

The last time I did this I installed the cover and installed three or for bolts very lightly just to keep it in place. Then I installed the HB to center the cover. Then I tightened the loose bolts just enough to keep the cover from shifting. I then removed the HB again and installed the rest of the bolts. Follow the directions on the FIPG packaging for installation. Usually tighten to finger tight and wait an hour and then finish tightening. Be very careful not to over tighten and split the gasket. It’s really important. Once you’re done tightening the bolts you can reinstall the HB and torque to final specs. It is also very important to torque that nut to the proper specs or you’ll have a bad day in the future.

Anyone know the stud size

 

[Beehanger]

View attachment 3418777OSS Can you elaborate on the footnotes of this chart? Also, what is 17.4 and 11.4 mean

 

[OSS]

I think the 11.4 and 17.4 noted are my measured length of the entire bolt in millimeters.

My original “D” designated bolts were shorter than the spec: 13.9mm instead of the 16mm speced in the manual. Timing cover had never been removed before.

My original “B” designated bolts were longer than the spec noted in the manual: 13.7mm instead of 12mm

I reused them all. No problem.

— If the bottom of the timing gear cover still drips oil even after resealing it , the leak source most likely is the timing gear plate behind the gears. Mine dripped a little bit but I left it.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

How can one tell if this is the location of a leak?

The bottom of what @OSS Said . If it's bent it will not stop leaking

 

[Beehanger]

Did the job, all buttoned up. Having some post job concern, though, when I realize the last gasket, and the material wasn’t even stuck to the engine block at all. I thought that was confusing and just assumed it was because of a leak, but now I’m realizing the engine shop seems to have painted the surface. Will it not stick if there’s paint there, should I have sanded this down before fixing the timing cover? Here’s photos of what it look like.

This is also how far I put the oil nozzle in, I don’t recall if I fully turned it in but maybe someone can tell


Thanks
Dan

 

[OSS]

New gaskets don’t stick to metal when applied. Dry. Normal.
Toyota applies all its gaskets dry on a new vehicle (except for a few exceptions).

 

[Beehanger]

I’m talking about the FIPG. In the prior gasket, I used gaskets inch. I’m saying what I’m concerned about is that the metal of the timing plate cover was painted over, does this cause our RTV/FIPG not to be sticking properly?

 

[cps432]

That doesn’t look so much like paint to me. Looks more like a stain from decades of oil being sloshed against the raw steel. Mine looked like that too. They didn’t paint the block. I’m sure they didn’t paint the timing plate too if that’s the case. Always clean the surface where gaskets and rtv will be used with acetone or brake cleaner and wipe until the rag doesn’t pull any more gunk up.

Does it hold oil this time? If so, rad!