Fort9378
SILVER Star
1.5s difference between 2 powertrains with very similar specs is suspicious. Lots of content creators (for what that's worth) have said the LC feels very peppy. 8.5s isn't peppy.
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The 5th Gen 4runner can honestly and rightly be consider a dog in that respect but it's more than fine for passing and any such situation. The only time I wished it was such a dog was going up mountains in CO but considering everything else that wish was fleeting.
The crazy thing is, depending on how you have that 8020 lb distributed, you could very well be within both axle ratings (FF 4k lb, RR 4150 lb).
That to me is proof the 2nd gen Tundra is overbuilt. You have slightly more than a ton of available load carrying capacity—if you can distribute it properly—between the curb weight of a crewmax truck (~5900 lb) and the sum of the axle ratings (8150 lb).
If there is truly a GX550 out there with over 1800 lb of payload on the door jamb, that will be my next tow rig. That’s higher than I’ve ever seen on any Tundra. (Maybe there’s an early 2wd work trim 2nd gen with the fabled advertised max of 2k, but I’ve never seen it). Also never seen close to that on any Cruiser or Sequoia.Here's the answer..and it means that we likely haven't been thinking about that "payload" sticker correctly. (i.e. Expedition Portal might be right). With that being said, there is info on Toyota's website that's wrong - but perhaps weight and GVWR aren't it. It also means that the GX550 is a frickin' payload BEAST.
Credit to @TWILLY for triggering me to actually look at the regs.
49 CFR 571.110(S4.3) has the payload label regulations:
Federal Register :: Request Access
www.ecfr.gov
That requirement introduces the term vehicle weight capacity for use on that label we like looking for for payload, but it defines that weight as follows: Vehicle capacity weight means the rated cargo and luggage load plus 68 kilograms times the vehicle's designated seating capacity.
So, those commenting that Toyota seemingly has been deducting passenger weight from payload, it appears that's true. 68 kg is 150 lb.
So, a full payload figure needs to have the number of seats times by 150 added back in.
For the black FE with the sticker we saw:
6,835 lbs (sticker) - 5,037 lbs (website) = 1,798 lbs
Then vehicle weight capacity is 1,100 lbs (sticker) + 5*150 lbs = 1,850 lbs
For the GX550 Overtrail:
7,165 lbs (sticker) - 5,466 lbs (website - bare overtrail) = 1,699 lbs
Vehicle weight capacity is 1,545 lbs (sticker) + 5*150 lbs = 2,295 lbs
So, note that the Overtrail/+ can get up to 5,666 lb curb weight per the GX Spec sheet, but I used the lowest weight to show that the GX has a big discrepancy between the GVWR - Curb and the Vehicle weigh capacity....it's interesting.
So @TWILLY , maybe payload is fine with this generation, assuming we are interpreting the regs right. Thoughts?
I was 3380 FR and 4640 Rear. A bit over the axle rating, but didn't seem to have any issues. I wouldn't think too much about doing it again. Probably will load similarly later this year for a trip south on the ALCAN.
I made this meme a while back, and it’s somewhere else on this forum, but I thought it would be relevant here, too. 
Because what the government says the payload is matters?
I don’t get it. If you want to swap springs on your 200, then do so. Why do you want to have to spend several hundred dollars more in order to get a permission slip from the government that says that you swapped the springs on your 200?I made this meme a while back, and it’s somewhere else on this forum, but I thought it would be relevant here, too.
View attachment 3634556
Having spent time in both Australia and Europe, good luck running 35's on your street vehicles. I bet that approval to run heavier duty springs cost way more that the springs themselves.
While living in Belgium a few years back, I had pictures of my 80 series on 35's in my office. The most common question was "Who authorizes (certifies) you to do that to your vehicle?" My response "I do." They couldn't comprehend such freedom.
To run anything larger than a +1 or +2 upsize in tire, you have to have a "vehicle engineer" certify that your vehicle is "safe" for use on the public roads. Unless you like having even fewer freedoms in your daily life, please don't invite their way of thinking to these shores.
The yearly "vehicle inspection" was another great idea to bilk money from their citizens as well. I could go on and on, but trust me, inviting the government into the equation is not the solution.
While living in Belgium a few years back, I had pictures of my 80 series on 35's in my office. The most common question was "Who authorizes (certifies) you to do that to your vehicle?" My response "I do." They couldn't comprehend such freedom.
To run anything larger than a +1 or +2 upsize in tire, you have to have a "vehicle engineer" certify that your vehicle is "safe" for use on the public roads. Unless you like having even fewer freedoms in your daily life, please don't invite their way of thinking to these shores.
The yearly "vehicle inspection" was another great idea to bilk money from their citizens as well. I could go on and on, but trust me, inviting the government into the equation is not the solution.
Right, that’s an issue in Australia and Europe, but simply not an issue here in the US.
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
Why I always run larger and higher weight rating tires on my 5 lugs. They were too light to add stiffer springs to, but they really didn't need it since the pickup spring were stiffer than the springs on a early 90s Chevy k1500 pickup.
I've never seen a government that cares or measures it. But I live in the USA where only heavy commercial vehicles go through scales.
The closest I've ever seen is a tire speed rating check in Montana when driving over 100mph. And that was 20+ years ago.
Im mostly just poking fun at the payload police. I’m overweight at times. Internet payload police tell me things like “sure hope I’m never on the road with you” while ignoring the fact they cruise at 10 over the speed limit while checking their phones.
I’m fine being overweight sometimes because the truck can handle it. Yes I drive safely. We know the truck can handle it because in countries where private recreational vehicles actually are regulated, you can get certified to carry an extra ton just by installing heavier springs.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
So trust the government certification only when it suits your interests, otherwise F@¥√ the government. Got it.
What law am I breaking being a bit over payload but within axle ratings?
Be precise.
Funny our neighbors in Belgium should be so concerned about safety since they have the most lethal roads in all of the EU every year.
If you go to inspection in France, they will check that the tires on your car match what was originally installed by the manufacturer. If they are not, you will not pass. But when I wanted to put new K02s on my 70 series in AZ, Discount Tire would not agree to put 31x10.5 on, so I had to show them the plate on my LJ70 that proved that this was the original tire size. Otherwise they would not put them on. So maybe your control functions are shifted to the private sector and not government.
I absolutely hate vehicle inspections every 2 years in the EU. Makes me want to sell the car and walk. But when I see the wrecks rolling on the streets here in AZ, I wonder if inspections are not such a bad thing after all.
Yeah that sounds ridiculous. I am in no way inviting more regulation to the US. I am merely saying that since people who REALLY care about regulation will certify our rigs for a literal extra ton of weight if you just add heavier springs, then I am fine being over payload but under axle ratings.
But other members are certainly free to read whatever else they want into that I guess.
Take tow capacity for example. Why do people believe a carmaker when they say not to tow over say 10K, but when the carmaker says don't load this up past 1300 lbs, they say nah the carmaker doesn't know what they're talking about?
Wouldn't the entire car be engineered and designed around a certain specification of load bearing and strength? Everything from the frame to the tie rods and brakes are different on a light SUV with a 1K payload vs a truck with a 2 or 3K payload right? IDK I don't work in the car industry
Insert that often cited picture of the 4Runner tie rods next to 200 series tie rods here -
Course I know there are people who say both tow and payload ratings don't matter. haha. Hop on any Ford or RAM forum and you'll find guys who are towing way over the limit and they say it doesn't matter, their truck is fine.
Personally I don't care too much about the gov't stuff much, for me it's performance of the vehicle. For a while I pulled around an Opus offroad trailer with my 2020 Tacoma. Maybe 4000 lbs. Tacoma stated tow capacity was 6800 lbs. It was terrible. haha I was slow, couldn't accelerate, couldn't brake quickly and struggled up mountains. And that was with lower gears/manual transmission and a lightweight truck with no additional weight.
Same with those overland guys (no offense, I understand the joy of having a home on wheels but it's not my style) who load up their trucks with everything they can from bumpers, winches, sliders to a camper, RTT, awning, unused maxtrax and rotopax, kitchen sink and 10 pelican case strapped to any empty space they can find. Sucks to drive, slow to accelerate, slow to stop... and when they hop into a stock truck it feels like a weight has been lifted and they're driving a porsche. And I only say this because I've been there done that and learned some lessons.
I know you can counteract some of these things by adding a supercharger, new springs/shocks, new gears, new brakes yada yada but at the end of the day you would have a much easier time if you just started with a vehicle that was properly built to handle the load.
(Of course you can't add FI to the 250 as it's already turboed so there's not really any room for engine improvement there unless you really feel like stringing out that 2.4L - but that's a topic for another day)
Wouldn't the entire car be engineered and designed around a certain specification of load bearing and strength? Everything from the frame to the tie rods and brakes are different on a light SUV with a 1K payload vs a truck with a 2 or 3K payload right? IDK I don't work in the car industry
Insert that often cited picture of the 4Runner tie rods next to 200 series tie rods here -
Course I know there are people who say both tow and payload ratings don't matter. haha. Hop on any Ford or RAM forum and you'll find guys who are towing way over the limit and they say it doesn't matter, their truck is fine.
Personally I don't care too much about the gov't stuff much, for me it's performance of the vehicle. For a while I pulled around an Opus offroad trailer with my 2020 Tacoma. Maybe 4000 lbs. Tacoma stated tow capacity was 6800 lbs. It was terrible. haha I was slow, couldn't accelerate, couldn't brake quickly and struggled up mountains. And that was with lower gears/manual transmission and a lightweight truck with no additional weight.
Same with those overland guys (no offense, I understand the joy of having a home on wheels but it's not my style) who load up their trucks with everything they can from bumpers, winches, sliders to a camper, RTT, awning, unused maxtrax and rotopax, kitchen sink and 10 pelican case strapped to any empty space they can find. Sucks to drive, slow to accelerate, slow to stop... and when they hop into a stock truck it feels like a weight has been lifted and they're driving a porsche. And I only say this because I've been there done that and learned some lessons.
I know you can counteract some of these things by adding a supercharger, new springs/shocks, new gears, new brakes yada yada but at the end of the day you would have a much easier time if you just started with a vehicle that was properly built to handle the load.
(Of course you can't add FI to the 250 as it's already turboed so there's not really any room for engine improvement there unless you really feel like stringing out that 2.4L - but that's a topic for another day)
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Just pointing out the
It's America, bro! You're free to not give a **** until your actions are proven negligent in a court of law.
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