Buck up soldier. Who knows, you could be left alone on an island for a while but then you biggest critics may come around to agree with you. I know, right?
Thoughts on LC250 Remote Touring Capacities (2 Viewers)
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Buck up soldier. Who knows, you could be left alone on an island for a while but then you biggest critics may come around to agree with you. I know, right?
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
All you guys were whining that the 200 was overpriced and that Toyota needed to bring out a cheaper model. So Toyota does that and now you whine that Toyota cheapened it.
I agree a lot with what you post but I just cannot understand how you can't see that there are two aspects that were driving up the cost of the previous generation here in the US. (1) Capability, reliability, and quality and (2) Luxury features including (power seats, leather interior, third row seats, power second row seat, second row entertainment screens, dash navigation, center console cooler box, and on an on.
Most of us wanted to see a cut to item (2) - the luxury - and the corresponding price cut. Instead, we got cuts to elements of (1) and most of (2) and a price cut that gives Toyota back far more on each unit.
Now that it is FULLY CONFIRMED that the 2024 Land Cruiser is the de facto successor to the 150 series and is the next generation of the light duty Land Cruiser, and for the US market that there are ZERO heavy duty/wagon carryovers like the GX550 is getting (larger rear diff, better payload, e-KDSS, higher towing capacity), it should really bug the hell out of you that Australia gets the 2024 GX Prado for $40k USD. I'll give you an extra $5k considering we get the hybrid. Instead, we are stuck paying $56k for something that elsewhere costs $45k. Why? Because dumbass Americans will buy anything, especially when there's a vacuum of decent products in the segment.
Toyota knows they'll likely sell their production capacity at $55k to the US market..but that doesn't mean that you have to pretend like you're not getting ripped off.
Just look at the 4Runner and you'll realize that the Land Cruiser badge is just a $10k appearance package.
- Thread starter
- #23
Buck up soldier. Who knows, you could be left alone on an island for a while but then you biggest critics may come around to agree with you. I know, right?
Easy there, cowboy. Some of us awaited actual data to draw conclusions.
The LC300 starts at $45k USD. There's near zero marginal cost difference between the LC300 rolling chassis and the LC250. Is it too much to ask for an LC300 base model equivalent for $60k?All you guys were whining that the 200 was overpriced and that Toyota needed to bring out a cheaper model. So Toyota does that and now you whine that Toyota cheapened it.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Imagine this..(and it's all still priced too high IMO):
LC250 (1958, LC, and First Edition) priced from $45k, $50k, and $60k, respectively
GX550 (Overtrail, Overtrail+) priced at $65k and $72k, respectively
LC300 (Base, Almost LX) priced at $60k and $85k
LX600 Starting at $87k (which it is) and going up to $110k+)
4Runner (SR5-4x4, TRDOR, TRD Bro) from $44k, $46k to $55k
You know what I think happened? Toyota saw all the rich MFrs drop serious coin on the Heritage Edition because they (Toyota) said it's not coming back and started a FOMO craze, just like everything else since March 2020....but then Toyota thought they could get that same margin from everyone else on a lesser vehicle but with "hEriTaGe-inspired headlights".
But we all don't just have throwaway money (like the HE crowd) and interest rates went up in the meantime. It's easy to get past $1000/mo with the pricing they want.
- Thread starter
- #26
This is what I expected too because it made sense; I was wrong.
It's still baffling.
And, as I've said elsewhere, I still think the 250 will be a fantastic off-roader, but it will lack capacities for heavier duty work like extended remote touring with significant loads.
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I'd make a few changes, but yes, it's how it should be.
LC250 (1958 NON HYBRID, 1958 Hybrid, LC, and First Edition) priced from $45k, $47.5, $50k, and $60k, respectively
GX550 (Overtrail, Overtrail+) priced at $65k and $72k, respectively
LC300 (Base, Almost LX) priced at $60k and $85k
LX600 Starting at $87k (which it is) and going up to $110k+) (I don't think Lexus actually sells the base model - when I look there has never been one that I can find sold. I think it actually starts more like $105k MSRP.)
4Runner (SR5-4x4, TRDOR, TRD Bro) from $44k, $46k to $55k
Sequoia NON HYBRID $55-70k, Hybrid $60-95k
FJ Cruiser (2007 Edition, FJ, TTUE) $37, 43, 50k respectively.
it’s not baffling.
Many years ago when the 250 was just a concept, Toyota marketing and engineering drew up an outline as to what THEY wanted the vehicle to be in the USA. The market in the USA isn’t (for the most part) fixated on Africa type expeditions out into the wilderness for months. Nope, most Americans are weekend warriors or two week vacation “explorers” on marked and mapped trails.
Some of us want a LC with a 650-700 mile range which can also haul 1 ton of gear (like my FJ60 could) but those of us who do are not very common and Toyota isn’t going to make a vehicle for the 0.3% of the potential market.
No automobile company manufactures a car with a gas tank large enough to drive 600+ miles anyway. It’s never done.
Reducing the weight of the vehicle compared to previous models was a key objective in the design of this new LC. And the only way to do that is to make things smaller/thinner - which will take away the load carrying capacity of the vehicle.
Many years ago when the 250 was just a concept, Toyota marketing and engineering drew up an outline as to what THEY wanted the vehicle to be in the USA. The market in the USA isn’t (for the most part) fixated on Africa type expeditions out into the wilderness for months. Nope, most Americans are weekend warriors or two week vacation “explorers” on marked and mapped trails.
Some of us want a LC with a 650-700 mile range which can also haul 1 ton of gear (like my FJ60 could) but those of us who do are not very common and Toyota isn’t going to make a vehicle for the 0.3% of the potential market.
No automobile company manufactures a car with a gas tank large enough to drive 600+ miles anyway. It’s never done.
Reducing the weight of the vehicle compared to previous models was a key objective in the design of this new LC. And the only way to do that is to make things smaller/thinner - which will take away the load carrying capacity of the vehicle.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
I wonder if Toyota will call the next gen RAV4 a 4Runner to amaze people like OSS about the improved the MPG and size/weight and cost.
Also, never say never:
Also, never say never:
My Tundra has 600 miles of range.
Basically - all of Toyota's hybrids have a s*** ton of range. Most between 500 and 700 miles of range. Except the BOF models. I don't feel like it's totally unreasonable to think that a Land Cruiser that gets 23mpg and is marketed as an adventure mobile that can tow your travel trailer should have a fuel tank larger than a Sienna that gets 36mpg and will never tow in most cases. Having only about 13-15 useable gallons makes towing challenging. There are places that the LC250 cannot tow its rated capacity between fuel stations on the interstate highway system.
- Thread starter
- #31
Many cars and trucks get 600 or more miles of range. A relevant example here is the hybrid F-150; unlike Land Cruiser 250, it leverages hybrid efficiency for more than 700 miles of range.
Six hundred miles is a common touring benchmark; I used it to show the 250's low capacities. The 250, with its good efficiency, needs only eight extra gallons to achieve 600 miles. Yet preceding series, some requiring dozens of auxiliary gallons for 600 miles, best the 250's residual payload by several hundred pounds.
Land Cruiser 250's 1360 lb payload is barely more than my Subaru's.
Toyota is already building and selling the Land Cruiser that you say it won't make for the US market. Offering the GX550 in a base spec, as many expected Land Cruiser 250 to be, would have more closely adhered to Land Cruiser's legacy in the US market of mechanical robustness for higher capacities.
the 250 is, essentially, a base spec GX550. Same frame, same dimensions. It doesn’t have eKDSS but it does get a disconnecting front swaybar.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Not quite M1911.
1958 doesn't get front sway bar disconnect. Also, rear differential is smaller on the LC.
Maybe those things don't matter to you.
1958 doesn't get front sway bar disconnect. Also, rear differential is smaller on the LC.
Maybe those things don't matter to you.
Fort9378
SILVER Star
I don't think the base 550 gets eKDSS. Have to go overtrail for that. It also doesn't have the rear locker and the 250 does.
Correct. Overtrail and Overtrail + are the only ones with the eKDSS
The more I look at it... The more I like it. If I am going to pay a premium, might as well get that, a premium.
.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Of all the options, Overtrail GX550 represents the best value in my opinion.Correct. Overtrail and Overtrail + are the only ones with the eKDSS
The more I look at it... The more I like it. If I am going to pay a premium, might as well get that, a premium.
Fort9378
SILVER Star
For an offroader the base 550 isn't even worth considering. Have to go to at least the overtrail. I'd heavily consider an overtrail over a 250 but I have a feeling the dealers will check every option box they can and the OTs will be nowhere near MSRP.
Agreed. The only "minuses" for me are the lesser MPG and only middle AC vents vs better MPG and independent AC from LC250. And, stupid as this sounds, the Lexus badge vs. "just" a Yota badge. I prefer the understated Yota.
However, after all I have heard and read, the Overtrail+ seems the one to go for. Like fellow @Fort9378 well said, they will be way overpriced... Gotta wait then.
Of the models out so far. For actual touring use, Tacoma or tundra are the clear winners in my opinion. I suspect the Tacoma trail hunter is the most capable midsize that Toyota will offer in North America followed by the 4Runner and then GX and Land Cruiser 4th or 5th depending on where you put the Tundra.
The current Prado GX (base) is $63,000 AUD, the 250 will probably go up in price a bit, say $66,000 AUD. CAD is pretty much par with AUD, and the 1958 here is $69,000 CAD with the hybrid powertrain. So, I would say the Prado is roughly the same price in Australia, not significantly cheaper.
