Thoughts From the 200 Crew On the LC250 Reveal (6 Viewers)

[desmocruiser]

this whole debate would be moot if we got the new 70 series here

Or even a $110k Lexus LX 600 in LC GR trim with locking differentials and the less obnoxious grille!

If they introduced that and the 70 Series was coming to America, we would be throwing a party with all the choices!!!

 

[Tex68w]

Super bummed. The exterior looks like a cheap afterthought and the power plant and rear battery suck. We will be sticking with our plan to replace our current GX460 with a GX550 Over Trail in 2025.

 

[Gr8Daneger]

I don’t really think Toyota is looking for us 200 owners to downgrade to the Prado 250. They are looking for GX/4R fanboys to be excited to finally be able to afford something new with the LC name. If they wanted to try to capture the 200 folks they should have at least put the i-Force Max engine in it with the 437 hp/ 583 lb-ft of torque that has 9500-12000 lb tow rating.

 

[TeCKis300]

You mentioned “towing” for the 570 over the 150.

I have a 17 F150 and a 13 LC, my LC doesn’t tow ANYTHING as good as the F150. It’s not meant to tow, the 150 is.

Yes, the LC does better off road and will outlast the 150 by 20 years, but it ends there. Drive both for a week, go on a road trip with both.

You’ll see.

And I’m a die hard LC guy

The Raptor is a fantastic tow vehicle. Built in trailer brakes, long wheel base and big brakes along with a very legitimate tow mode. I've towed a 16' stock trailer with cattle and it had no problem towing or stopping. It will, however, squat with stock springs. I upgraded the rear coils and lost any squat.

I live in the epicenter of FS and BLM roads. Your typical FS road is the Raptor's sweet spot. It'll happily absorb giant potholes, washboards or shale and feel like you're on a runway. I've gone 90mph on a BLM road and never felt vaguely out of control. Mining roads, unmaintained or overgrown spurs can definitely prove to be too narrow and I'd give the LC a slight advantage on snow, largely because it's AWD, though the Raptor has proven to be excellent.

The Raptor is, however, a much better daily driver...roomier, quicker, intuitive interior, better ride, selectable suspension, airplay/android auto, better seats, much more cargo (especially with a topper), more interior storage, far superior HVAC, built in aux switches, more power outlets, etc etc. Road trips aren't even close with the difference in room, ride and power, not to mention a 600 mile range They are a blast to drive on the highway. If I lived in a city, I'm sure it would be a bear to park but fortunately, I do not.

Absolutely NO argument on quality or toughness...the 200 will outlive two Raptors. I only have 30k on my Raptor and have had zero issues but I'm confident it'll start having issues before 150k. And the LC is a much more capable trail rig to be sure. It's more narrow, has a better traction control and has slightly better visibility, though I'd argue the 200 lost a bit in that category with its round snout. Obviously the Raptor has a terrible rear departure angle. The LC has decades of off-road experience and purpose built engineering along with Japanese quality...trails are no contest.

But...the Raptor is a very modern, well engineered truck. Up until the 300, we all know that the tech on the LC hadn't changed significantly since the 100 series exited the scene. We have to mod the hell out of them just to get Apple Play, trailer brakes and a rear locker--all standard on the Ford. I know Raptor's are often driven by Mountain Dew chugging goons who love their giant Let's Go Brandon stickers and probably have tiny wangs, but make no mistake--they are very impressive trucks if you can get past the branding.

All of this to say, this is why I choose to be optimistic about the new 250. If it can handle moderate trails while boasting more HP, better MPG and range with an updated interior, all without the luxury stuff I don't want in a trail rig? Then it has my attention and hope!

Not taking away from the Raptor. It's in its element on open expanses and fire roads.

Yet a properly modified LC/LX with big tires and suspension will happily eat open expanses too and my Raptor buddies are always surprised a homely wagon can hold anything near the same pace. Still an edge to the Raptor in this type of use but don't discount a properly modified 200-series.

A Raptor doesn't tow well stock because of the soft off-road spring rates. The standard F-150 are also weak with poor tall gearing, unless opting for a tow package which makes them more legit. To be fair, the LC has this problem too. I installed airbags on my buddies '22 Raptor to better handle a light 3500lb off-road trailer as it was sagging butt giving up very needed clearance even with 37s. The LX has advantages as it can compensate and create additional clearance, which is why it's superior towing. The dimensions of the Raptor are an asset to Baja type running, but it's a big constraint in most every other type of off-road. Even with huge 37s, the approach, breakover, and departure are not even close to my LX on 35s and AHC lift. The recent 5-link upgrade (finally matching the 200-series) in the 3rd gen Raptors really gives up clearance with its low hanging links and trailing arms that constantly gets beat up. The Raptor gets Livewire shocks in 2019 - the LX has had that since 2008. Superior A/C?, that's certainly never been a weak point in the 200-series, additionally with 4-zone luxury.

I don't care to dissuade Raptor owners as they're great if they suit their owners better. The 200-series is like old man strength, will hold up for the duration, and can still teach a thing or two. Even to the new "Land Cruiser".

 

[Union]

I was thinking about it more and if they had offered this back when i wanted to move on from my 2016 tacoma, i would have got the 250 prado easily. The similar tech and rear air (3 row air) for the dog is what i was looking for. The land cruiser was the only option from toyota the time.

 

[tampacruiser95]

They also say it’s 4 inches narrower than the 200, and with the fender flares that stick out of an already protruding fender/body I can’t imagine how tight the inside must feel.

View attachment 3389916

People that sat inside said it felt like an 80 series, the gold standard of off road vehicles.

 

[chriscosta416]

I created a post on the 250 Series subforum, I believe the LC250 was rushed to capture the hype on the LC moniker

I think the Land Cruiser 250 was rushed...

Not sure if anyone shares the same opinion but I believe the Land Cruiser 250 was rushed to market and showcasing in time for the Land Cruiser anniversary, to capture on the buzz and hype the Land Cruiser name generated in recent years in the US market. The GX550 reveal was well put together...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[stonepa]

I'm sorry if I missed it but have they revealed where the 250 will be manufactured?

Japan

 

[stonepa]

this whole debate would be moot if we got the new 70 series here

You cant even get the 70 Series in the markets they sell it in. I ordered a new 78 Troopy from a dealer in Bogota last year, to keep at a good friends compound to drive when I am down south. (Getting too old to deal with the long drive/shipping issues any more). I also, just for fun, ordered a 300 GX-R series as well. Guess what? The dealer thinks I will be lucky to get any new 70 series anything before 2026. The 300 availability is worse.

Toyota has no reason to ever bring in something like this to the US when they can’t meet demand in established markets.

There - got that off my chest. I won’t think about either of these ‘never gonna happen’ orders until I get a call from a Spanish speaking dealer in 3-4 years.

 

[JamesC]

I'm sorry if I missed it but have they revealed where the 250 will be manufactured?

I had also been searching. AutomotivePress had it - will be manufactured in the Tahara and Hino plants. This news is unfortunate confirmation of the direction they are taking even if it's ultimately unsurprising.

 

[xeuxaz]

I think you'll be fine with the hybrid. Electric motors are generally most efficient when used for low end power and torque fill when taking off and in between shifts. Climbing grades, contrary to popular belief, is all about HP, and where the gas engine will do most of the heavy lifting anyways.

I know many are balking at hybrids, but that's the future if we want better than 16MPG. There might be some niceties along with that too. Upsizing tires may not require regearing as much because of the higher low end torque.

Have you spent time on the Tundra forums? (Probably not) Anyways, the Hybrid variant does absolutely nothing for gas mileage and instead is designed to provide very short bursts of power to hide turbo lag. There are also reports of the Hybrid system having trouble knowing when to engage when moving up to significantly bigger tires. I think Tundras come with 32s, and people are moving to 37s and 38s.

I suspect those that mod the 250 will be in for a surprise. Bigger tires put a constant load on the engine resulting in v8 gas mileage for the third gen Tundras.

 

[Sandroad]

You cant even get the 70 Series in the markets they sell it in. I ordered a new 78 Troopy from a dealer in Bogota last year, to keep at a good friends compound to drive when I am down south. (Getting too old to deal with the long drive/shipping issues any more). I also, just for fun, ordered a 300 GX-R series as well. Guess what? The dealer thinks I will be lucky to get any new 70 series anything before 2026. The 300 availability is worse.

Toyota has no reason to ever bring in something like this to the US when they can’t meet demand in established markets.

There - got that off my chest. I won’t think about either of these ‘never gonna happen’ orders until I get a call from a Spanish speaking dealer in 3-4 years.

I think this is really important data point and maybe key to any release from Toyota or Lexus. Can they actually supply the new LC and GX within any reasonable time and without outrageous markups. Having searched nationwide recently for a Prius Prime or RAV4 Prime for my family, I know they are in extremely short supply and marked way up. The Toyota supply chain is becoming an oxymoron and is missing lots of links. And just to rant a bit, I suspect Toyota wants it this way. They just reported record profits because they are controlling supply and keeping prices way up.

 

[lostonaroad]

My wife's 2021 GX460 might be displaced by this or the GX550 Overtrail in 3-5 years in our garage, the 200 will be with me forever. That being said, I want to drive one with this powertrain and see how it holds up before committing. Until then, we have two great cars and time to let others be the test pilots.

 

[2021 LC200]

Compare 326 horsepower and 465 ft/lbs torque against any generation of LC. It's on par with the 200 (+64 higher torque, -54 lower HP) and way beyond any previous generation including diesel variants. People in this thread crapping on the new hybrid powertrain are living in the past, IMO. You can do much more with less displacement with modern turbo architecture and electric aid. Case in point, my buddy's late-model 2.7 F-150 pulls like the 460 of yesteryear.

And if you want the big engine, it's still available in a similar platform buy a GX550, Sequoia or LX600. Honestly, I think it's great Toyota is giving so many options with the new generation of trucks. When it comes down to it, what people are criticizing in this thread is the use of the word "Land Cruiser." We all know it's not a 300 and not technically the successor to the 200, but the rest of the world doesn't care.

Those numbers are only achieved when the battery can run the electro motor. This does not work when towing long distances on the high way, especially on long inclines or in the mountains. That is why the tow rating is only 6000lbs.

Hybrid is great for a Corolla or an Accord which will not tow and just need to maintain speed on the highway. We helped buying our daughter a Honda Accord Hybrid and it does 36 to 40 mpg in the city which is 99% of what she does. Great car, impressive technology, but not for an overlanding vehicle which I want to tow with as well.

The 3.4 V6 hybrid from the Sequioa would have been great, but they did not as it is a Land Cruiser Prado everywhere else which is not a 200 replacement (= 300 series).

 

[jefo13]

I think this guy nailed it

 

[2021 LC200]

I think this guy nailed it

Absolutely nailed it. Saying politely what I and many of us have been bitching about, jejejejejeje.

 

[bj70bc]

that video was funny, my sentiments exactly

 

[Idaho Savage]

Those numbers are only achieved when the battery can run the electro motor. This does not work when towing long distances on the high way, especially on long inclines or in the mountains. That is why the tow rating is only 6000lbs.

Hybrid is great for a Corolla or an Accord which will not tow and just need to maintain speed on the highway. We helped buying our daughter a Honda Accord Hybrid and it does 36 to 40 mpg in the city which is 99% of what she does. Great car, impressive technology, but not for an overlanding vehicle which I want to tow with as well.

The 3.4 V6 hybrid from the Sequioa would have been great, but they did not as it is a Land Cruiser Prado everywhere else which is not a 200 replacement (= 300 series).

Tow ratings are more than drivetrain power.

 

[2021 LC200]

Tow ratings are more than drivetrain power.

I totally agree, the chassis and brakes need to be capable as well. That is not the problem of the new 250 series as the GX550 can tow 8000lbs. It is clearly the I-4 hybrid drive train.

 

[Idaho Savage]

Absolutely nailed it. Saying politely what I and many of us have been bitching about, jejejejejeje.

He's a mud dude from the 40 section, if memory serves.