The V8 Highlander has arrived...

[twstrchasr]

Of course I know better! I have 2k miles on mine!


Seriously I am just coming from a sales perspective....I have been commission sales since I was 20 (now I am 35) and I have a few rules I live by. That is why I said what I said.

Car sales people are not high on my list for being the smartest sales people.....but there are always exceptions....

I agree with you totally about the auto sales people. I hate to talk to them when I know I know more about the product than they do. That's with the sales persons...When you get into the mgrs, F&I, marketing, etc. people they may know their stuff but you still need to keep a keen eye on them, as a whole !!

My mothers twin brother owns BMW and Lexus dealerships and I have seen many things that really have turned me off to the business side of things. You gotta watch those people !!

 

[dclee]

Of course I know better! I have 2k miles on mine!


Seriously I am just coming from a sales perspective....I have been commission sales since I was 20 (now I am 35) and I have a few rules I live by. That is why I said what I said.

Car sales people are not high on my list for being the smartest sales people.....but there are always exceptions....

I agree on the sales folks, but the general managers usually seem pretty sharp. They have to consider more than just sales. There's also the finance/accounting/inventory side of things. So tell me, coming from a sales background, if you had a high-volume business moving $15-30K cars (let's assume dealer costs here) and suddenly had a $65K single item sitting on the books accruing cost every day it sat on the lot, that had to be paid for in whole to the mother company, and was now a liability, and you were not receiving anything for it, and you had to maintain the storage costs, insurance, cleaning and upkeep, etc. for the thing (i.e. inventory costs) for 150 days, and you knew most of your profit was going to be squeezed out of it anyway when it sold because nobody wants one (buyer's market), what would you honestly do? On top of that, you knew your alternative was to take that $60K and turn around three cheaper vehicles in 1/10th the time for 1/10th the processing costs (human resources costs, etc.). And you not only had cost concerns, but quota concerns as well that determined your dealership status with the mother company as well as your corporate kickbacks and final profit margins for the dealership as a whole. If you really think it's still a good idea, then I guess there's not much more I can say...

BTW, both Tustin Toyota and Elk Grove Toyota, which are both President's Award dealerships, told me they wouldn't be carrying the Cruiser except by special order. I'll reiterate (despite my passion for Cruisers) that from a purely business perspective, I don't necessarily disagree with them on that decision, or think that they're "idiots" as you put it.

I remember when the 80 Series first came out, there were waiting lists to buy. You couldn't get one if you wanted it. They sold every one they brought in before they brought it in! Dealerships were desperate to get their hands on the trucks, because they knew they would sell them quick, and at a super high profit margin. To even hear the insinuation that dealers might not want to carry the 200 Series is somewhat disturbing to me, to say the least. I think it is truly the end of an era.

 

[twstrchasr]

I'm going to put this as simply as I can. If I had the choice between a $73K Toyota and let's say an $82K Lexus there would be no question as to which one I would buy. The Lexus, hands down. I have changed my tune in regards to Lexus. It is really simple economics in that you get more for a minimum amount more. When you factor in all the diffenences between the the LC vs the LX the LX just is the better choice. This all depends on the exact pricing on the LX, but unless there is a significant difference in pricing, the LX still is the better choice. Even with all the "fluff" I'd rather get the LX. Along with the styling differences I do think the LX should have at least a 20 HP increase over the LC.

 

[LandCruisers4Life]

I'm going to put this as simply as I can. If I had the choice between a $73K Toyota and let's say an $82K Lexus there would be no question as to which one I would buy. The Lexus, hands down. I have changed my tune in regards to Lexus. It is really simple economics in that you get more for a minimum amount more. When you factor in all the diffenences between the the LC vs the LX the LX just is the better choice. This all depends on the exact pricing on the LX, but unless there is a significant difference in pricing, the LX still is the better choice. Even with all the "fluff" I'd rather get the LX. Along with the styling differences I do think the LX should have at least a 20 HP increase over the LC.

Yeah, but then if you give up the LC for the LX570, you now have to weigh the value between that LX and a new Range Rover.

By the way, the other poster spoke of the 80 series being sold out before even hitting the lot. It was the same with the new Range Rover body style. Sold before in stock.

There are 3 things which would keep me from buying a 200 series LC.

1) No shifter for the high/low range
2) It looks like a large Highlander
3) The price is such that what it offers for the price is not there. You get a LOT more for your money with a Rover product in the same price point.

 

[cruiserdan]

To be honest, what I have noticed is that the COLOR has ALOT to do with the new LC looking like a highlander or not.

I have the Grey color. There is not a highlander I have seen any highlander in that color or in Red.

Maybe that is one of the reasons....

Geeze................


Get over it...........The 200 looks like a Highlander........

Lift it, put some nice shoes on it, stick a rack on it. Then it will look right...

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I wasn't about to pay that kind of money for a plebeian Toyota.

Twstrchasr-That is the dumbest thing I've seen here on ih8mud for a while. So you are saying you would rather pay more for a car that is objectively far less, at Range Rover because it is not 'plebeian". You have got to be kidding. Either that or there are other serious voids in your life.

Be objective here. What is "plebian" about a new Land Cruiser. The interior is great, the drive train is bulletproof, it has every luxury feature, it's got all of Toyota's best thinking, it has great reliability, and yet it isn't good enough for you? I could see if you were talking about a poverty pack from down under, but this thing is superbly appointed. If you are worried that your twstrchasing friends will see you in a Toyota, than please do by a Range Rover from which to pass the Grey Poupon.

 

[dtt255]

I agree on the sales folks, but the general managers usually seem pretty sharp. They have to consider more than just sales. There's also the finance/accounting/inventory side of things. So tell me, coming from a sales background, if you had a high-volume business moving $15-30K cars (let's assume dealer costs here) and suddenly had a $65K single item sitting on the books accruing cost every day it sat on the lot, that had to be paid for in whole to the mother company, and was now a liability, and you were not receiving anything for it, and you had to maintain the storage costs, insurance, cleaning and upkeep, etc. for the thing (i.e. inventory costs) for 150 days, and you knew most of your profit was going to be squeezed out of it anyway when it sold because nobody wants one (buyer's market), what would you honestly do? On top of that, you knew your alternative was to take that $60K and turn around three cheaper vehicles in 1/10th the time for 1/10th the processing costs (human resources costs, etc.). And you not only had cost concerns, but quota concerns as well that determined your dealership status with the mother company as well as your corporate kickbacks and final profit margins for the dealership as a whole. If you really think it's still a good idea, then I guess there's not much more I can say...

BTW, both Tustin Toyota and Elk Grove Toyota, which are both President's Award dealerships, told me they wouldn't be carrying the Cruiser except by special order. I'll reiterate (despite my passion for Cruisers) that from a purely business perspective, I don't necessarily disagree with them on that decision, or think that they're "idiots" as you put it.

I remember when the 80 Series first came out, there were waiting lists to buy. You couldn't get one if you wanted it. They sold every one they brought in before they brought it in! Dealerships were desperate to get their hands on the trucks, because they knew they would sell them quick, and at a super high profit margin. To even hear the insinuation that dealers might not want to carry the 200 Series is somewhat disturbing to me, to say the least. I think it is truly the end of an era.

Ok, What I mean by 'idiotic' is that when you work for somewhere and you are a commission sales person, speaking ill about something that you are supposed to be selling is idiotic. Is that a better explanation?

I own a company now, instead of just doing plain sales, and if I heard a sales person saying that what we have is too expensive and that they would not get it either. They would be out of there so quick! There is a process called 'building value' . If someone says things are expensive, then I explain that it is a large amount of money, but the VALUE is there, and explain that it may not be for everyone, but 'we' build our vehicles for ALL areas of buyers. So what fits for some, may not fit for others.

That is the problem with sales these days. People don't know how to sell, mainly because nobody has taught them. It is a two fold issue.

Anyway that is what I meant. Opinions don't matter in sales....only sales matter. That and making the customer FEEL good about the purchase. Simple as that.

It was simply the actions of that salesperson that I was saying was idiotic.

I'm going to put this as simply as I can. If I had the choice between a $73K Toyota and let's say an $82K Lexus there would be no question as to which one I would buy. The Lexus, hands down. I have changed my tune in regards to Lexus. It is really simple economics in that you get more for a minimum amount more. When you factor in all the diffenences between the the LC vs the LX the LX just is the better choice. This all depends on the exact pricing on the LX, but unless there is a significant difference in pricing, the LX still is the better choice. Even with all the "fluff" I'd rather get the LX. Along with the styling differences I do think the LX should have at least a 20 HP increase over the LC.

Spending over $75 on a vehicle was not an option for me...that is why I simply chose the LC. Compared to the others out there, it was the best choice for me. Plus the whole double stroller thingy, etc.

Geeze................


Get over it...........The 200 looks like a Highlander........

Lift it, put some nice shoes on it, stick a rack on it. Then it will look right...

Putting items on it, is NOT something I object to..as I have well pointed out....not all of us can be you

I am not debating what SOME people thing, just that it was an observation I had when driving around and seeing highlanders and the pictures of the white 200 LC's that are being posted here.

and no...after $72k I don't have to get over it

Twstrchasr-That is the dumbest thing I've seen here on ih8mud for a while. So you are saying you would rather pay more for a car that is objectively far less, at Range Rover because it is not 'plebeian". You have got to be kidding. Either that or there are other serious voids in your life.

Be objective here. What is "plebian" about a new Land Cruiser. The interior is great, the drive train is bulletproof, it has every luxury feature, it's got all of Toyota's best thinking, it has great reliability, and yet it isn't good enough for you? I could see if you were talking about a poverty pack from down under, but this thing is superbly appointed. If you are worried that your twstrchasing friends will see you in a Toyota, than please do by a Range Rover from which to pass the Grey Poupon.

Yeah what he said!! Also the RR were upwards of $85-90k when I priced it out on the web. Plus the stroller would NOT fit!

 

[LandCruisers4Life]

haha.. I don't think RR were designed for Strollers. Those stroller fitting vehicles are for moms. Just kidding.

Well, other than those points I brought up earlier, I am sure you bought an excellent vehicle. Have fun with it, and try not to dwell on what MUD posters say. If I did, I'd be upset everyday.

 

[dtt255]

haha.. I don't think RR were designed for Strollers. Those stroller fitting vehicles are for moms. Just kidding.

Well, other than those points I brought up earlier, I am sure you bought an excellent vehicle. Have fun with it, and try not to dwell on what MUD posters say. If I did, I'd be upset everyday.

LOL...hey why not take the kids in style!

I am not sure if you got all my previous posts at the start. I need a vehicle that also held 4 car seats PLUS a double stroller after the third row seats....

and then kicked ass off road

With those requirements.....maybe my choice makes more sense

Oh and I don't dwell on anything anyone says..... lol

 

[landtank]

I just got back from the Boston auto show last night. The entire truck line that Toyota now offers is so homogenized it's sickening. I don't see me buying another truck for myself ever at this rate. I bought my wife a 2003 4Runner and it seems that was the year the 4Runner was assimilated. The only stand out is the FJ Cruiser and that's just a bobbed 4Runner.

How anyone can get excited over these bland offerings is a mystery to me.

 

[dtt255]

I just got back from the Boston auto show last night. The entire truck line that Toyota now offers is so homogenized it's sickening. I don't see me buying another truck for myself ever at this rate. I bought my wife a 2003 4Runner and it seems that was the year the 4Runner was assimilated. The only stand out is the FJ Cruiser and that's just a bobbed 4Runner.

How anyone can get excited over these bland offerings is a mystery to me.

Well guess I am crazy then....I love my 200! I would love it if it pisses off all the others!

 

[landtank]

I would love it if it pisses off all the others!

what ever lifts your skirt

 

[twstrchasr]

Twstrchasr-That is the dumbest thing I've seen here on ih8mud for a while. So you are saying you would rather pay more for a car that is objectively far less, at Range Rover because it is not 'plebeian". You have got to be kidding. Either that or there are other serious voids in your life.

Be objective here. What is "plebian" about a new Land Cruiser. The interior is great, the drive train is bulletproof, it has every luxury feature, it's got all of Toyota's best thinking, it has great reliability, and yet it isn't good enough for you? I could see if you were talking about a poverty pack from down under, but this thing is superbly appointed. If you are worried that your twstrchasing friends will see you in a Toyota, than please do by a Range Rover from which to pass the Grey Poupon.

I went back and read my post and I could not find any mention of a RR. In fact, I was comparing the Toyota with the Lexus in the latter posts !! And yes, the toyota is plebeian when compared to the Lexus version.

Fill a VOID in your life...Learn how to read and process what you have read correctly.

Oh, it's spelled PLEBEIAN , not plebian slapdick !!

 

[twstrchasr]

I just got back from the Boston auto show last night. The entire truck line that Toyota now offers is so homogenized it's sickening. I don't see me buying another truck for myself ever at this rate. I bought my wife a 2003 4Runner and it seems that was the year the 4Runner was assimilated. The only stand out is the FJ Cruiser and that's just a bobbed 4Runner.

How anyone can get excited over these bland offerings is a mystery to me.

Here is why....If it weren't for bad taste, some people would have no taste at all !!

 

[twstrchasr]

Twstrchasr-That is the dumbest thing I've seen here on ih8mud for a while. So you are saying you would rather pay more for a car that is objectively far less, at Range Rover because it is not 'plebeian". You have got to be kidding. Either that or there are other serious voids in your life.

Be objective here. What is "plebian" about a new Land Cruiser. The interior is great, the drive train is bulletproof, it has every luxury feature, it's got all of Toyota's best thinking, it has great reliability, and yet it isn't good enough for you? I could see if you were talking about a poverty pack from down under, but this thing is superbly appointed. If you are worried that your twstrchasing friends will see you in a Toyota, than please do by a Range Rover from which to pass the Grey Poupon.

Dclee mentioned that the Toyota dealership recommended getting a RR. I did not. I merely posted his quote.

 

[fj80psi]

Most of us couldn't pay the 70k plus & I personally wouldn't, but as Dan said. Throw some meats, bumpers, winch and a rack on that bitch & it will surely get you deep enough into the woods to surprise any LC owner. I'd bet its the best on road driving cruiser ever. I drove a 06 LC & thought it was amazing how much it was refined over the earlier 100 series. I thought the 98 100 series was better in some respects than my 97. Oh. my 91 feels like a old familiar worn out shoe.

My point is. I bet the 200 would make a great compliment to my 97. It won't happen because of the price though. I would buy a well used 100 for my wife. That is in my $ range.

IMO we should not get so hung up on the looks. We should meet some 200 series owners & invite them to wheel with us. Lets see some body damage on a $73k rig. LOL. I saw some SEMA pics. and the aftermarket bumpers really improved the 200. The new "Cruise Lander" is pretty sexy. there... I said it.


Now... Flame On -Andy

 

[OGBeno]

As I mentioned earlier, the LC is no longer a DIY vehicle. It ceases to be something that regular people can own outright.

That said, I probably have over $30K in my 80 including the rebuild but I've done all of the work on it myself with tools I bought at Sears, parts I bought from Dan, Christo, SOR, and some other vendors, and I have yet to put a sawzall to the body.

To put a bumper on the 200, you would need a sawzall and a good body man.

That takes big money--more than $30K. The LC is now a $100K vehicle to do "right".

As I said to Dan today, time to start hoarding "old" Land Cruisers...and he said, "that time was years ago."

I think he was right.

-o-

 

[FirstToy]

As I mentioned earlier, the LC is no longer a DIY vehicle. It ceases to be something that regular people can own outright.


-o-

Beno, can you expound on that a bit? Not sure what you mean by this.

The 80 sold for @$57,000 in 97
The 100 sold for @$58-65K
The 200 sells for @$70K
I wrote elsewhere that if you adj for inflation, the 80 costs over $75,000.

I don't think the Land Cruiser/LX line has been affordable for the masses for well over a decade at least as a 1st owner vehicle.

On another note-Actually, to put bumpers on the 200, you need to cut the plastic bumpers. There is no need to sawzall any metal. It encounters the same difficulties as the 4Runner, GX470 & FJ Cruiser- altho even more extreme.

I don't share the opinion that newer Toyota SUV's are junk. I think there is a difference between unfamiliarity and actually "impossible to work on".

I really like the 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser,GX470 and LX470. It's a nice selection of offroad worthy wagons.
They have their share of imperfections but the 80 isn't perfect either (special, iconic, pinnacle; yes.. perfect; no.)
I really think that for the SUV crowd, Toyota "kept it real" and offers a wagon for every price range that can truly do what an SUV is suppossed to while competing in today's market. I don't think any other automaker in the USA has that.

The 200 isn't some "hardcore" wheeler. It's really a nice SUV, I think it's a tough sell these days, yeah it has a family resemblence to lesser Toys, yeah it's a bit plain but it's a Land Cruiser. It's solid underneath. It's got 5.7L, KDSS, toughest frame ever & the best suspension since 1997. The seats feel really nice too


*added
Oh and the argument that the new Sequoia is a better deal doesn't wash b/c it's the exact same comparo as the old Sequoia vs 100. (same engine, more room, half the price, both even had SRA)
I think the new Sequoia is really nice tho. If I were in the Tahoe/Exped market- I would be placing an order at Toyota.

 

[fj80psi]

Beno- My software at work only supports up to 06 Toyota....
Just as long as they don't install a carburetor on the new 200 I'll be ok. Well, as long as it doesn't break down for a couple years. Yeah, it will not be a Rig. It's been nice also being able to work on my 80 myself. Although, the guys at my shop were there for a solid month when I rebuilt & turbo'd my 80. I will prolly always own a 80 series. I'd better check out your progress....

 

[fj80psi]

Thats 100% correct. I couldn't afford a new 80. Instead, I bought a clean 10 year old rig for $10k. I'll buy a 200 series when I'm 10 years older.