The Car Care Nut talks UR V8 blown head gaskets (3 Viewers)

[JDMaffinity93]

That year is certainly worth more than $23k. I'm curious how common this really is, after all there are so many of these engines out there in several vehicles by Toyota. Recall the 1FZ-FE in the 80 is known for blown head gaskets, doesn't stop anyone from driving it. That said it is repairable, I think the point here is the cost to properly repair the UR V8.

If it's from the rust belt, 23K sounds about right for a 2013 rig with 200K.

Let's see what long-term issues the V35A starts showing once those rigs start getting into 6-digit mileage and 5-plus-year-old territory (I think everyone will still praise the UR). I will admit it was stupid on Toyota's part not to have more frequent coolant interval changes. I'll bet on the current 2URs sold in the Lexus line that they are still making this dumb recommendation of 100K coolant intervals.

 

[rexington14]

Engine failures are still very rare, and if you do end up one of the unlucky ones, then you can be rest assured that the rest of the vehicle should be in good shape, thus the investment to fix it is worth it. That’s generally not the case with other vehicles.

However, as others have mentioned, proper maintenance is key on these rigs to last a long time.

Per the video that's a huge investment if the 5.7's aluminum block warps. I wonder if we'll eventually see preventative head gasket replacements recommended on the 200 as it ages - to refresh it before it possibly blows where due to the aluminum vs cast iron block, block warpage is more likely.

Unfortunately, proper maintenance can be elusive to many owners. The manual specifies 10yr/100k mile for the first coolant change. 10k mile oil changes. Lifetime transmission fluids. Some models / powertrains can handle this "neglect" better than others. (4.7's aren't blowing head gaskets like this even though they are specced for a 90k first coolant change)

Similarly, go take a look at the GX460 transmission situation - they are failure prone as mileage increases for owners who didn't change the fluid, towed with them, never added a cooler and/or ran them hot, etc. While other models with the same lifetime transmission fluid spec (even the same transmission) can go forever.

 

[finboy]

Maybe it’s just me but I saw the video more as “previous V8 was idiot proof, last v8 was still good but watch for the maintenance records.” This doesn’t make me think my engine is doomed.

When I bought my lx I passed by many as I wanted one that had been taken care of, and owned by people with mechanical sympathy.

 

[xeuxaz]

Man, I disagree. 200k+ miles is easily attainable and is expected for pretty much any maintained TOYOTA engine / model. I'd be severely disappointed if this was my truck. You can tell he feels for this customer. There are no good repair options, mostly because the 5.7's aluminum block is prone to warp when these failures occur.



His hypothesis is that 5.7 head gaskets are deteriorating over time and eventually blowing because of insufficient coolant change intervals. "Insufficient" simply means following the service manual - which is what most owners will do. The overheating is the symptom of failure, not the cause. (Whereas in the superior 4.7 V8, the head gasket typically will only fail because of a -severe- overheat occurring)

Sounds to me like a warning to anyone buying a 5.7 used, to verify the coolant change records (every 5 yr / 50k) otherwise you could be purchasing one where the head gasket has already partially deteriorated and weakened, possibly resulting in a likely future failure.

Long live the 4.7 V8

CCN has another video where the 2UZ head gasket failed due to the same issue.

Lesson being change your fluids.

I would argue it rarely happens on a 2UZ because timing belt jobs force regular coolant changes. 3URs are ignored by most owners.

 

[rexington14]

CCN has another video where the 2UZ head gasket failed due to the same issue.

Lesson being change your fluids.

I would argue it rarely happens on a 2UZ because timing belt jobs force regular coolant changes. 3URs are ignored by most owners.

The failure mode (a difficult to diagnose, miniscule HG leak), severity of failure (no overheating, no head or block warping), suspected cause of failure (age), frequency of failure (rarer), and costs to repair (way less), are all less severe in this video compared to the 5.7 video.

Agreed though, change your coolant.

 

[xeuxaz]

The failure mode (a difficult to diagnose, miniscule HG leak), severity of failure (no overheating, no head or block warping), suspected cause of failure (age), frequency of failure (rarer), and costs to repair (way less), are all less severe in this video compared to the 5.7 video.

Agreed though, change your coolant.

UZ motors are king for reliability, no doubt about it.

 

[2021 LC200]

Seems to me that Toyota has had head gasket issues on their engines for many years. The 4th gen 4L, 2ZR-FE, 2GR-FE, 2AZFE, 3VZ-E, 3UR and others. Not so much on the 22Rs. Now that I think of it, with over 50 years of fiddling around with cars, I have seen more BHGs than I can count on most every kind of car. Seems to be a rather common problem for all makes and models. Subaru, BMW and Mazda have certainly had their problems. I just have to wounder if the problem on the 3UR is in reality any worse than any other make or model.

Exactly. On the 3UR appears a maintenance issue to me. Obviously many second hand purchases around with previous owners who did not care or did not think it was needed. Not much you can do about that other than buy new and do it right yourself.

 

[AmericanKing]

I’m curious if a coolant filter would help this issue keeping the coolant from getting acidic. 50k/5yr changes are a must but maybe adding a filter for extra insurance.

 

[Vasiliy]

I’m curious if a coolant filter would help this issue keeping the coolant from getting acidic. 50k/5yr changes are a must but maybe adding a filter for extra insurance.

I doubt that the filter is designed to change the chemical composition of coolant fluid.

I have a 2016 LX 570 86370miles with no valley leaking or thermostat.

It looks like the previous owner replaced the radiator with a new version and I also noticed a Toyota part sticker on the impeller of viscous coupling, perhaps it was also replaced in the assembly together with coolant.

Also I have fzj80 02.1993 124274miles fluid was changed regularly and still with the original head gasket

 

[JohnJB]

Wow, can’t believe 0W20 is causing head gasket failures too.

 

[bloc]

Used oil analysis would alert an owner to a head gasket leak well before it became a problem for the block or head.. and a whole lot less invasive than changing head gasket as PM.

I'm approaching 210k.. I'll probably do one around there.

 

[2021 LC200]

Used oil analysis would alert an owner to a head gasket leak well before it became a problem for the block or head.. and a whole lot less invasive than changing head gasket as PM.

I'm approaching 210k.. I'll probably do one around there.

Bloc, warming up to the use of oil analysis based on your comment.

Do you do oil analysis every oil change? Or do I take that you now plan to do one at 210k to check for water?

 

[rexington14]

Used oil analysis would alert an owner to a head gasket leak well before it became a problem for the block or head.. and a whole lot less invasive than changing head gasket as PM.

I'm approaching 210k.. I'll probably do one around there.

It's a good idea, but it will not necessarily detect it.

Per the video, interestingly all the failures observed looked to be on cylinder 5 or 7, or between them affecting both. (Which illustrates a potential inherent weakness with the 5.7 in this particular area compared to the rest of the engine)

Coolant leaking into the cylinder and burned out the exhaust may not affect an oil sample as the oil passageways can be unaffected (unless block / head warpage occurs then all bets are off). There shouldn't be oil in the combustion chamber to begin with, otherwise you have other problem(s).

 

[TeCKis300]

Seems to me that Toyota has had head gasket issues on their engines for many years. The 4th gen 4L, 2ZR-FE, 2GR-FE, 2AZFE, 3VZ-E, 3UR and others. Not so much on the 22Rs. Now that I think of it, with over 50 years of fiddling around with cars, I have seen more BHGs than I can count on most every kind of car. Seems to be a rather common problem for all makes and models. Subaru, BMW and Mazda have certainly had their problems. I just have to wonder if the problem on the 3UR is in reality any worse than any other make or model.

Right? It's a critical interface subject to any abuse and maintenance shortcomings an engine might see. I don't see this problem as systemic on the 200-series.

These examples could just as equally due to minor overheats due to the common radiator crack failures. Combined with using the wrong octane on LXs. Combined with lack of maintenance. Blah blah.

My takeaway is we don't need to do analysis like Blackstone and re-engineer these things. Use the fluids and maintenance intervals recommended by Toyota and follow them.

 

[bloc]

Bloc, warming up to the use of oil analysis based on your comment.

Do you do oil analysis every oil change? Or do I take that you now plan to do one at 210k to check for water?

I did one UOA that was unremarkable when I got this truck at 105k but haven’t done another. Now over 200 it’s not a bad move.

And they really aren’t looking for water as evidence of a coolant leak. IIRC it’s other elements in the coolant like potassium.. but it has been a very long time since I read about this.

It's a good idea, but it will not necessarily detect it.

Per the video, interestingly all the failures observed looked to be on cylinder 5 or 7, or between them affecting both. (Which illustrates a potential inherent weakness with the 5.7 in this particular area compared to the rest of the engine)

Coolant leaking into the cylinder and burned out the exhaust may not affect an oil sample as the oil passageways can be unaffected (unless block / head warpage occurs then all bets are off). There shouldn't be oil in the combustion chamber to begin with, otherwise you have other problem(s).

My understanding is that the process of looking for the relevant compounds is so sensitive that if the gasket failed between cylinders there is a high likelihood of even a trace leak to the cooling jacket, which would be detected. And this would get into the oil by getting past the rings, making a leak directly to the oil return ports unnecessary.

 

[Fisher23]

How can one test the acidity of the coolant?
and then what level indicates it should be changed?

This is the reason for the 50k coolant replacement suggestion that was made.

Maybe just a rad drain and refill every say 20k would be easier and good enough?

 

[Nothinghead]

How can one test the acidity of the coolant?

You can use a pH test strip:

Amazon.com

 

[bloc]

You can use a pH test strip:

Amazon.com

If anyone does this please post your results with time and mileage on the coolant, as well as your typical use-case (IE, heavy towing, freeway vs city, hot or cold climate, etc.). This could end up being good data for others.

 

[PDoyle]

Keeping this space for when I have something relevant.

 

[bloc]

Do we know whether standard pH strips will be accurate with the other chemicals in coolant?