THE ALL NEW LAND CRUISER....

[ryanCA]

"I don’t know really anything about the other truck engine options yet. But I have a hunch forced induction is coming, naturally inspiration may be on its way out unfortunately for body on frame Toyota’s.
I haven’t seen what the new Tacoma looks like either.

I only have limited access to vehicles debuting within 6-7 months.

What I can say is Toyota is hard at work on a slew of brand new and innovative products.

RAV4
Supra
Highlander
AWD Camry and Avalon
Plug In Hybird Sienna
refreshed Tacoma
all new Tundra
Sequoia will debut on year after
heavily refreshed 4 gen Prius.
And there is a new Crossover addition being introduced to the Toyota lineup that will be smaller than highlander I have very little info on that at the moment."

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

That diesel's good news for the T4R, and maybe even the GX, I hope.

 

[mcgaskins]

Ah more diesel rumors. Not. Going. To. Happen.

Ever.





EVER.

 

[M1911]

BMW just announced that they are stopping diesel sales in the US. I have a hard time believing that Toyota will start selling a diesel in the US. I would love to see it, but I’m skeptical.

 

[MikeVpdx503]

I would tend to agree but with Ford and Jeep now offering additional diesel options, it may not be that far fetched. Having driven large diesels, I can say it probably isn’t for me unless I wanted to have a dedicated towing rig, not necessarily a daily driver.

 

[Canyonero]

Jeep is now saying they may not actually deliver on the diesel Wrangler promise.

Toyota (Dave from LCDC year before this past one) told us all unequivocally that Toyota is not getting into the diesel game. Forced Induction, definitely, but not diesel.

 

[Canyonero]

Go to 2:30 re: diesel in the new Wrangler - this channel on YouTube knows their Jeeps.

 

[TeCKis300]

I'll say it. Diesel is a contrived romance. Born out of the days when gassers were weak, and unflinching diesels were fitted to the big boy trucks.

Today, it's a different game. Gassers in an unending HP war, where they make substantial torque too. With diesels being overly complex and unreliable due to all the auxiliary systems necessary to belie their ill mannered nature. Where they win is in efficiency, yet that is arguable with the increase in diesel prices to match.

So what you get is a big lump of lead at the front, killing handling, and eating payload. That delivers more range, yet at a literal cost of procurement, maintenance, and decreased performance as they have way less power. HP that is. HP is what matters for climbing, passing, and towing performance in the vast open roads in the US. We having gearing to make torque at the wheels.

Besides, electric motors are now a real possibility for hybrids and EVs. With torque and efficiency in spades to embarrass any internal combustion engine.

Diesels time has come and gone. Good riddance.

 

[TonyP]

I assume you mean the new diesels are overly complicated. The 6BT is as simple as it gets.

But I agree, people look at diesels with rose colored glasses. One of the reasons I went with a diesel to gas in the Troopy.

 

[TeCKis300]

I assume you mean the new diesels are overly complicated. The 6BT is as simple as it gets.

But I agree, people look at diesels with rose colored glasses. One of the reasons I went with a diesel to gas in the Troopy.

Yeah, new ones. The 6BT will continue as a legend.

Don't get me wrong, some of the current top of the line diesel beasts in the 3/4 and 1-ton trucks are still incredible. Slightly less so as they are saddled with all the DEF junk.

The welterweight and passenger car diesels... snore. 250 hp is just not adequate anymore regardless of what torque it puts out.

 

[I6turbo]

Hyundai/Kia are no joke. They hired a bunch of engineers and designers from Audi and BMW. They are investing billions.

Not at the Korea HQ, but operations management wise in the US they have also hired several ex-Toyota people over the past couple of years who were based in Torrance but were not interested in moving to Plano, TX to stay with Toyota.

Toyota (and Lexus LS/GX/LX) vehicles have been changing over the past 15 years or so with each new generation, and not fundamentally for the better, IMO. They are going more "mainstream," losing a noticeable amount of the special "Toyotaness" with each new platform, and becoming more indistinguishable from their competitors. I rent cars pretty often for business travel (and just test-drive vehicles for fun) and it's to the point that if no vehicles had badges on them, you'd be very hard-pressed to pick the Toyotas out from the rest. It didn't used to be that way. The Land Cruiser/LX will be the last to go (about the only thing left at this point, and to a lesser extent the LS), and it'll be interesting to see how it changes with the next generation.

The next Tundra (2022) is to be built on a modified Tacoma platform, so that's how they are thinking about their full size pickup. But the LC/LX is a different vehicle, so we'll see if they also make a big directional change with it, or not.

Frankly, they've pretty much lost me on the 200 series LX with just the face lifts. I prefer the 2008-2011 version to the later ones, so I'm not expecting to be very interested in the 300 series. Likewise with the 120 series vs. 150 series GX -- I much prefer the 120 GX series. I even prefer it overall for my use over the 200 series. At least there are enough 100s, 120s, and 200s available for someone who wants to search out a pristine earlier model if they prefer, so that's an option for people who hold the views that the older Toyotas are preferable.

 

[mcgaskins]

The next Tundra (2022) is to be built on a modified Tacoma platform, so that's how they are thinking about their full size pickup.

I’d like to see your source for that info.

 

[I6turbo]

I’d like to see your source for that info.

I can only say that I did not make it up, the source is not internet claims, magazine claims, or something I've read somewhere. I have no idea what rumors are out there -- probably all kinds of stuff, but I've never bothered to look. Beyond that, we'll just have to wait and see to know for sure.

 

[OGBeno]

I’d like to see your source for that info.

I have heard this directly from Toyota folks as well.

 

[bloc]

I love the idea of what modern diesels could be, but hate what they have been forced to become. I've spent time in places with uncontrolled diesel emissions and it's disgusting, not to mention horribly unhealthy for both the people and the environment.. but then I also think the current and future levels of diesel emission controls has been designed in part to eliminate the option from our roads... and it's working.

My main issue with the current smaller displacement turbo gas trend is getting the thermal energy out of the system. Ultimately you have the same HP being produced, so very similar BTUs being removed out of a much smaller engine/cooling jacket/head. I trust toyota to do a better job of this than others, but for me it is a bit of a red flag when people claim these engines can work just like a NA v8.

Also, despite the shortcomings of current legal diesel engines, and the correct assessment that HP matters (and we can gear for torque).. diesels are still a lot happier working near their rated HP for long periods of time. So while that 250hp diesel really isn't enough to be competitive, it can't be directly compared to a 250hp gas engine in terms of performance.. specifically the kind of performance needed for a truck.

Basically, they are different. Their strengths apply in different places. And while it'd be amazing to have the option, I just can't see diesels remaining viable in anything smaller than a 3/4-ton truck long-term.

As to BMW pulling diesels and chevy/ford/dodge staying the course.. pickups are different than passenger cars, both in terms of the required emissions and the perception/expectation of the buyers. Also their recent monetary investment to bring them to market may require staying the course for a while to see a return whereas BMW can easily just drop the car here and keep selling them in europe.

Edit for diesel emissions context: while very rare, ambulances have literally stopped running on the way to the ER with critical patients in the back because of sensor faults on modern diesel powerplants. Fire engines spend unbelievable amounts of time in the shop with melted DPFs, cracked EGR coolers.. will shut down while pumping at a fire if the DEF tank runs too low (if pre-2014 IIRC). If there were EVER a case for exempting certain vehicles from emissions regulations it would be emergency service vehicles, but EPA/CARB won't consider it. I've heard rumors of certain states legislating exemption, but the engine manufacturers won't design the power plants.. and until it's federal, I can't blame them.

 

[mcgaskins]

I can only say that I did not make it up, the source is not internet claims, magazine claims, or something I've read somewhere. I have no idea what rumors are out there -- probably all kinds of stuff, but I've never bothered to look. Beyond that, we'll just have to wait and see to know for sure.

I have heard this directly from Toyota folks as well.

I would be incredibly surprised if an updated Tundra doesn’t get released until 2022 considering the platform will be 15 years old by then. We know Toyota takes their time, but that just seems extreme, even ludicrous when the full size truck market is one of the most competitive in the world. It also seems unlikely they’d use the same platform as the Tacoma for the Tundra considering the physical differences in length, width, weight, GVWR, etc. Of course this is the Internet so rumors, opinions, third hand chat, etc get traction pretty easily. We shall see

 

[Canyonero]

All this talk of diesel vs. gassers strikes me as re-arranging deck chairs on The Titanic.

EV’s are becoming increasingly viable in terms of range and charging times and battery cost.

Wheeling in an instant torque high articulation EV would be an experience.

Seems to me, EV’s that are exciting, would sell in large numbers. People would buy an all electric off roader and use it the way most 4x4’s are currently used-as pavement princesses. It would be cool if Toyota had the leadership in this space, but we all know that’s unlikely.

 

[Markuson]

All this talk of diesel vs. gassers strikes me as re-arranging deck chairs on The Titanic.

EV’s are becoming increasingly viable in terms of range and charging times and battery cost.

Wheeling in an instant torque high articulation EV would be an experience.

Seems to me, EV’s that are exciting, would sell in large numbers. People would buy an all electric off roader and use it the way most 4x4’s are currently used-as pavement princesses. It would be cool if Toyota had the leadership in this space, but we all know that’s unlikely.

All electric in a true off roader seems about three battery breakthroughs away...because the range is gonna absolutely suck on a camp-equipped wheeler without a MASSIVE increase in range...especially considering long trail days and multiples like Hole in the Rock.

I do think electric assisted Hybrids could be very cool though.

Imagine instant, practically-unlimited torque when crawling, or climbing “the wall” or other obstacles where entirely predictable power could be on tap.

They could probably come up with some interesting charging via brakes and perhaps even steep descent slowing without brake rotor use... Who knows...

I do agree that the “longing” for diesel is a bit rose colored. Once re-geared, there is no lack of power or torque despite the 200’s heft.

 

[TeCKis300]

All electric in a true off roader seems about three battery breakthroughs away...because the range is gonna absolutely suck on a camp-equipped wheeler without a MASSIVE increase in range...especially considering long trail days and multiples like Hole in the Rock.

Actually, EV's love loafing along and is where they're most efficient as it doesn't waste energy fighting aero drag. Probably would be upwards of 30% more mileage crawling along. Same idea in that they excel in traffic. Another huuuge pro is that on hot days, there's no heat from an internal combustion motor radiating from the undercarriage or floor pan. Just blissful cool A/C, and no exhaust fumes. Things that one doesn't notice until they own an EV.

To your point, we're not there with infrastructure yet to "fuel" for the next leg.

 

[Markuson]

Actually, EV's love loafing along and is where they're most efficient as it doesn't waste energy fighting aero drag. Probably would be upwards of 30% more mileage crawling along. Same idea in that they excel in traffic. Another huuuge pro is that on hot days, there's no heat from an internal combustion motor radiating from the undercarriage or floor pan. Just blissful cool A/C, and no exhaust fumes. Things that one doesn't notice until they own an EV.

To your point, we're not there with infrastructure yet to "fuel" for the next leg.

I wasn’t suggesting EV. I was suggesting hybrid as an assist. All electric for Offroad isn’t even close...or at least not what I consider off roading...