The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread (3 Viewers)

[KiwiDingo]

You guys aren't looking at it the right way. Most people are running more than the required EMP necessary to provide the turbine with the required energy to drive the comp wheel at the desired boost. All I'm doing is setting up my gate so that I'm using the lowest EMP possible to achieve the same boost pressure.

It's also the thing you are forgetting about when talking about airflow through the engine and why two different setups on the same vehicle can both be running exactly 20psi but one will be getting a lot higher airflow going through the engine than the other. You mention airflow through the engine is like a pump but I haven't heard anyone mention about pump head pressures which is the biggest factor when it comes to designing and setting up pumps systems. Head pressure in our case would be EMP, something to think about.

I not here to prove anyone wrong, I'm just letting people know what I have found with my own testing and what works for me. All most people care about these days is boost and how early they can get the boost gauge to get to full boost. Sure you're going to get some good results with all that boost torque build but it's not ideal and your missing out on so much performance and drive-by drivability in being so single minded about boost being the key.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

No you cannot. Physics bro. EMP and EGT is the energy source for the boost.

Unless he removed the turbo and put a big blower on his engine?

 

[Dougal]

You guys aren't looking at it the right way. Most people are running more than the required EMP necessary to provide the turbine with the required energy to drive the comp wheel at the desired boost.

That's not possible unless you're running a too small turbine housing and wastegating more flow than you would with a correct sized housing.

See these things are self balancing. The turbine generates the power required to run the compressor. Too much power means too much boost and the wastegate starts to open to reduce turbine flow and power. Too little turbine power and the wastegate closes so it can build more.
It all balances out.

Snipped out all the other bollocks.

All most people care about these days is boost and how early they can get the boost gauge to get to full boost. Sure you're going to get some good results with all that boost torque build but it's not ideal and your missing out on so much performance and drive-by drivability in being so single minded about boost being the key.

So you now think the normal setup builds more torque, but you've got more performance?
Huh?
"Drive-by drivability"?

There is no-one here single mindedly chasing boost. You're arguing against things no-one has said.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Noone here is trying to tell you boost is the be all and end all.

You haven't answered simple questions to explain exactly what you are saying.

The way I understand what you are saying is this

The same engine, same turbo, same vehicle, tuned so you are achieving 20psi boost.

Now take the same engine, same turbo, same vehicle, but softer waste gate springs.
Still achieving 20psi boost?

What else has been changed?

Most people are running more than the required EMP necessary to provide the turbine with the required energy to drive the comp wheel at the desired boost

At which point, a waste gate opens and bleeds off excess exhaust manifold pressure.

You can run a turbo diesel with no waste gate at all, and limit boost with fuel settings.
Turn down the fuel, you reduce the volume, temperature and velocity of exhaust gases. This reduces drive energy and EMP. As drive energy is reduced, so is boost.

 

[KiwiDingo]

Haha you guys make me laugh, so stuck in your ways and unaccepting to new ways of thinking or ideas other than your own. It's ok, I'll continue to post my ideas and thoughts. Feel free to think what you want about them, I'm sure it'll be helpful to others

 

[Dougal]

Haha you guys make me laugh, so stuck in your ways and unaccepting to new ways of thinking or ideas other than your own. It's ok, I'll continue to post my ideas and thoughts. Feel free to think what you want about them, I'm sure it'll be helpful to others

We're always open to new ideas and new ways. But misleading graphs from turbo makers and perpetual motion turbos not so much.

 

[KiwiDingo]

That's your opinion, I have mine

 

[mudgudgeon]

Haha you guys make me laugh, so stuck in your ways and unaccepting to new ways of thinking or ideas other than your own. It's ok, I'll continue to post my ideas and thoughts. Feel free to think what you want about them, I'm sure it'll be helpful to others

Without a coherent explanation on how you've bent the laws of physics, this is simply clutter in an otherwise helpful thread

 

[KiwiDingo]

No bending laws of physics here, I'm simply just limiting EMP to the lowest possible to achieve the required boost level.

 

[tweeek]

I don't think he is going to get it. Either that or you are being trolled. Don't waste your "breath" in this pissing match, you won't change his mind.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I don't think he is going to get it. Either that or you are being trolled. Don't waste your "breath" in this pissing match, you won't change his mind.

Yep

You can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink.
Or as my horticulturalist friend would say, You can lead a whore to culture, but can't make her think

 

[KiwiDingo]

I don't think he is going to get it. Either that or you are being trolled. Don't waste your "breath" in this pissing match, you won't change his mind.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. Just as well as my posts are to help people with an open mind

 

[KiwiDingo]

Food for thought emp management . My personal car runs a 10psi actuator and a boost controller . With the 10psi actuator and no boost controller I can get 15psi, with boost controller I get 26psi and drive pressure is never over 1.2:1

With a 22psi actuator and no boost controler I get 25-26psi and drive pressure spikes to 1.5:1 just before the gate cracks . One the dyno torque is down with the 24psi actuator from the point drive pressure goes above 1.2:1 untill it comes back down, which when the gate finally opens .

With the 10psi spring, as emp builds it cracks the gate just enough to stabilise drive pressure but not lower boost (your tune and pump play a big part here and not just cc of fuel) . It does slow the rate at which boost builds slightly

With no fuelling changes and the 10psi wastegate spring The rate at which boost builds is reduced a minute amount compared to the 24psi spring, but torque is still up.

What actuator combo will work for you is something your turbo builder should be able to work out . Or Hours of testing .

Did a quick search to see if anyone else has found the same results with reducing EMP like I have and found this from a few years ago. I knew surely I'm not the only one who has worked out this little trick, this guy knows what I'm talking about.

 

[Dougal]

No bending laws of physics here, I'm simply just limiting EMP to the lowest possible to achieve the required boost level.

You still don't get that reducing EMP reduces boost.

Did a quick search to see if anyone else has found the same results with reducing EMP like I have and found this from a few years ago. I knew surely I'm not the only one who has worked out this little trick, this guy knows what I'm talking about.

Did you miss the bit from McReight where he says it reduces boost?

The rate at which boost builds is reduced a minute amount compared to the 24psi spring

It is only once you understand basics like that where we can lead you through what happens to boost and EMP as exhaust temps rise and the reasons behind that. A cold dyno test that lasts a few seconds has several issues.

 

[KiwiDingo]

You still don't get that reducing EMP reduces boost.

You still don't get that it doesn't. Not sure why you think you know what happens in my vehicle better than me

Haha yep, I read everything about what @Mcreight911 said. Seems you're still trying to learn about how to tune setups for optimum performance.

Clearly can't read either, both of us have said many times it doesn't reduce peak boost. It only reduces the spool speed slightly but that's offset by the dramatic decrease in EMP. That's a massive positive!!

 

[Dougal]

You still don't get that it doesn't. Not sure why you think you know what happens in my vehicle better than me

Because I know that people can't simultaneously drive and monitor four different gauges (boost, emp, egt, rpm) in transient conditions with any hope of getting it right.

Clearly can't read either, both of us have said many times it doesn't reduce peak boost. It only reduces the spool speed slightly but that's offset by the dramatic decrease in EMP. That's a massive positive!!

Now you've finally got the reduction in turbo spool (reduction in boost, delay in boost). Next is realising it only reduces EMP where it reduces boost.

 

[KiwiDingo]

Because I know that people can't simultaneously drive and monitor four different gauges (boost, emp, egt, rpm) in transient conditions with any hope of getting it right.

Haha well don't you look silly. Who says I was even driving, or if I am why can't I look at my data logs/recordings.

 

[Dougal]

Haha well don't you look silly. Who says I was even driving, or if I am why can't I look at my data logs/recordings.

Yeah we look really silly. Making vague claims that violate physics and s*** while trying to promote some obscure turbo brand.

 

[KiwiDingo]

No claims being made here, just giving feedback on results I've found carring out my own testing. If you don't agree with what I'm saying that's fine, I don't agree with some of the stuff you say either. This is a public forum and I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are. Just accept the fact some people go about things differently to you that you might not understand why or how. Who knows maybe you might learn something new or think of something you thought you knew in a different way, I know I learn stuff from this forum all the time because I don't pretend like I'm a self proclaimed expert. I only give feedback on stuff I've actually tested and experienced myself. I haven't seen anything to prove you have done any testing for any of your wild claims of turbo knowledge but you don't see me asking for all your proof and results for every single blurb you spit out! This isn't your personal page it's for the whole world to use so stop thinking otherwise

 

[Dougal]

No claims being made here, just giving feedback on results I've found carring out my own testing. If you don't agree with what I'm saying that's fine, I don't agree with some of the stuff you say either. This is a public forum and I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are. Just accept the fact some people go about things differently to you that you might not understand why or how. Who knows maybe you might learn something new or think of something you thought you knew in a different way, I know I learn stuff from this forum all the time because I don't pretend like I'm a self proclaimed expert. I only give feedback on stuff I've actually tested and experienced myself. I haven't seen anything to prove you have done any testing for any of your wild claims of turbo knowledge but you don't see me asking for all your proof and results for every single blurb you spit out! This isn't your personal page it's for the whole world to use so stop thinking otherwise

You are claiming that you can wastegate EMP without reducing boost. That claim is total rubbish.

The physics are very clear with turbine power coming from turbine drive pressure and temperature. The physics works so well I use it to size turbos to engines with very good results.

This isn't about opinions. The physics and the experience of everyone here says you've got it wrong and are misleading people. Likely unintentionally but it's still bad.