Temp. KDSS / sway bar removal (1 Viewer)

[silverhorse]

So I kind of got myself in a pickle... my lift is installed and I never could get the kdss bolts loose.. I have removed the front sway bar links and now cannot reattach them due to the kdss in the front is frozen in the extended position...
Can I just remove the front sway bar?
I would like to trailer this thing to the alignment shop and deal with with the kdss later if possible

 

[TLC2013]

When I was working on my rear suspension spring install I disconnected the rear sway bar on the passenger side and had to use a floor jack to get it back into place. This was even after opening up the KDSS valves. Have you tried using a jack to get the front reinstalled?

 

[silverhorse]

Yep I did on the front and I couldn't get it to move.. I'm going to try welding the nuts and see if I can open the valves

 

[TLC2013]

Yep I did on the front and I couldn't get it to move.. I'm going to try welding the nuts and see if I can open the valves

Wow, impressive. I had no idea it would be so difficult to move. Seems like the right combination of floor jack and straps should be able to get it to compress/articulate. Let us know the outcome. The KDSS system seems to have a mind of its own at times.

 

[bloc]

Are you saying the front KDSS cylinder extended without the screws loose and won't compress again?

Were you able to get the pass side link in?

 

[silverhorse]

Correct

 

[bloc]

Correct

View attachment 2545601

Ah, I don't remember seeing anyone disconnect the front pivot of the KDSS arm.

I'd disconnect the cylinder from the arm, hang the arm on the pivot, put the cylinder bolt back in, and use a floor jack under the link end of the arm to see if I could get it to compress slowly. Front pivot connected will add a lot of leverage to compress the cylinder, and even with the screws closed my teardown showed there is a system within the valve to prevent over-pressure on one circuit. The other half of that system is what allowed the cylinder to extend while the screws were closed.

 

[linuxgod]

do you have all 4 wheels in the air? if not you're fighting the rear suspension. lift all 4 wheels and you should be able to use a jack to maneuver it when with the valves closed.

 

[TLC2013]

Brain storming ideas... @bloc. Do you think supporting the frame with jack stands (maybe just the front? Or also the rear too?) and allowing the wheels to hang/droop in the air would take some pressure off the KDSS system and allow it to compress enough to re-install?

 

[bloc]

Brain storming ideas... @bloc. Do you think supporting the frame with jack stands (maybe just the front)and allowing the wheels to hang/droop in the air would take some pressure off the KDSS system and allow it to compress enough to re-install?

The way KDSS works, if both tires on a given axle move the same amount, the cylinders stay neutral. They only really do anything when you twist up the suspension, ie have the front "axle" tilt left, and the rear axle tilt right.

So no, I don't think it would help. Even if you put the rear in the air, that cylinder should stay roughly in the middle of it's travel, while the front one is extended. You could unhook the rear cylinder and let it extend, which should shorten the front cylinder, but then all you've done is move the problem OP has from the front axle to the rear.

I personally think the ticket is get the passenger side link back in to hold the sway bar still, then do what I listed above to try and get the cylinder to compress. Though I haven't attempted the above personally, yet.

 

[CharlieS]

I think leverage may help here. I've disconnected the other end of that arm where it connects to the LCA several times. It takes a fair amount of effort to get everything lined back up, but is doable.

I'd disconnect the LCA end of that anti-sway bar, reconnect the KDSS cylinder side, and try again, using the lever as your helper, not your enemy.

Be prepared for floor jacks, ratchet straps and cursing, but you can do it!

 

[CharlieS]

So I kind of got myself in a pickle... my lift is installed and I never could get the kdss bolts loose.. I have removed the front sway bar links and now cannot reattach them due to the kdss in the front is frozen in the extended position...
Can I just remove the front sway bar?
I would like to trailer this thing to the alignment shop and deal with with the kdss later if possible

To answer your original question, sure, you could just remove the front sway bar.

As I understand it, people remove sway bars on purpose for different reasons like to alter handling and increase articulation. I drove an 80 series with the rear anti-roll bar removed for years

That being said, KDSS is a pretty effective system, so I'd personally be inclined to reinstall it after you get your alignment done.

 

[silverhorse]

So just to update, the truck is at alignment. I tried welding nuts on the kdss valve bolts with no luck. Not getting enough heat penetration down in the bolt for some reason. I'm not sure what others have done to make this work?
When the truck comes back from alignment I will try to get everything back together without opening the valves and see what happens...
Hopefully I won't have to worry about welding nuts on.. apparently it's much harder than it looks

 

[silverhorse]

Got the truck back from the alignment ....now I'm trying to install the front sway bar. I'm trying to establish how long the aftermarket links should be. I would think that the stock links would be too short I'm guessing I have at least three inches of lift. Anybody know how much extension the front kdss valve/shock pictured has? @bloc

 

[silverhorse]

Measuring that shock boot on the valve from top to bottom looks like mine was it about 7in.... I'm assuming it was extended all the way out? Now it's about 6 " since I've been messing with the sway bar today.

 

[TeCKis300]

Got the truck back from the alignment ....now I'm trying to install the front sway bar. I'm trying to establish how long the aftermarket links should be. I would think that the stock links would be too short I'm guessing I have at least three inches of lift. Anybody know how much extension the front kdss valve/shock pictured has? @bloc

I haven't been following completely so take this with a grain of salt.

Assuming you lifted the vehicle, but didn't really change the stroke of the suspension system. Meaning full compression is the same as stock and full droop is relatively similar to stock with perhaps an inch or so more travel, possibly with extended shocks...

You'll want the aftermarket sway bar links just about the same length as stock. Maybe .5-1" longer. Because on full compression of the suspension, you want to make sure the KDSS system is not going past whatever internal limit it's designed for.

 

[silverhorse]

After examining these BDS links, I'm wondering if they're strong enough for this application? They have an hourglass bushing on one end which seems to be made out of some type of plastic or polyurethane and flex a ton.. I have already distorted one of them ..
if you think about what they're meant for on a regular sway bar coming on a tundra they would not see near The Leverage that a kdss system would put them under..
I'm thinking maybe my best option is to take the original Land Cruiser Landcruiser links and cut and lengthen them...
@TeCKis300

 

[bloc]

Plus, if you look closely, our KDSS bar links are different on each side. Toyota designed a special one for the driver side with the arm for some reason. BDS won’t be like that.

Lots of guys run lots of lift with the stock links. Between the robustness issue you point put and the above I’d do what they are doing.

 

[silverhorse]

Good points and our Factory links are different lengths. The driver side is about half inch longer than the passenger side

 

[silverhorse]

@bloc would you have any idea how long that cylinder pictured above is? Sitting at ride height... I wish I would have measured mine before I ever tore my truck down