Tell me how the LC250 1958 will survive after this

[Jetboy]

Cleanability benefits of softex over cloth seats is clear. This is why I've seen it in multiple Toyota car rentals that I’ve been in. A quick wipe down of the seats by the staff and they are good to go for the next renter.

As far as the cooling problem man I’m not really sure what else to say. Certainly worse in summers but I think it’s simply due to the fact softex isn't breathable. Even with A/C on it eventually gets hot uncomfortable and sweaty wherever you are in most contact with the material. There's just no airflow to fairly large surface areas of the body. Resulting in swamp ass (and back). Maybe some are more sensitive to this? But I am confident I am not alone with this issue with softex.

It does seems like seating material should be one of the easier things to implement customization on across trims.

I feel like we're kinda arguing about whether heritage blue is better than Sand color when Toyota could just have both colors. Everyone wins.

Frustrating part is that Toyota is the ultimate master of individual vehicle mfg. If anyone can make this happen without a big cost differential it's Toyota.

 

[LX Cruiser]

I prefer cloth, unless the leather is heated and ventilated, like in our LX.

Cloth is never too hot or too cold. And it cleans up very well with a small wetvac.

 

[rexington14]

I feel like we're kinda arguing about whether heritage blue is better than Sand color when Toyota could just have both colors. Everyone wins.

Frustrating part is that Toyota is the ultimate master of individual vehicle mfg. If anyone can make this happen without a big cost differential it's Toyota.

Yeah, "ultimate configuration" would be ideal, although I don't really see it happening with Toyota. At least not anytime soon. Demand in general is quite strong across the lineup so I'm just not sure they need to. Based on market feedback and sales data throughout the product cycle they can and will just kill individual trims that aren't working while introducing / trying new ones. Most certainly this is even easier now with TNGA.

I wouldn't be surprised if seating material in particular is the top "trigger" for a lot of buyers to upgrade trims. Cloth -> Softex -> Leather is usually a multi thousand dollar decision because of the bump in trims and packages required that bundle a whole lot more additional features besides the seats. It seems buyers are more than willing to fork over this extra money and Toyota more than happy to accept.

Anyways, as someone who prefers base models, and obviously cloth seats , I don't mind that much, just as long as the base model exists in the first place. The only configuration upgrades I would actually consider are powertrain related. I'm happy with and actually prefer bare bones interiors with less features.

 

[MRego]

Yeah, "ultimate configuration" would be ideal, although I don't really see it happening with Toyota. At least not anytime soon. Demand in general is quite strong across the lineup so I'm just not sure they need to. Based on market feedback and sales data throughout the product cycle they can and will just kill individual trims that aren't working while introducing / trying new ones. Most certainly this is even easier now with TNGA.

I wouldn't be surprised if seating material in particular is the top "trigger" for a lot of buyers to upgrade trims. Cloth -> Softex -> Leather is usually a multi thousand dollar decision because of the bump in trims and packages required that bundle a whole lot more additional features besides the seats. It seems buyers are more than willing to fork over this extra money and Toyota more than happy to accept.

Anyways, as someone who prefers base models, and obviously cloth seats , I don't mind that much, just as long as the base model exists in the first place. The only configuration upgrades I would actually consider are powertrain related. I'm happy with and actually prefer bare bones interiors with less features.

Ok. We get that you reeeeeally hate softex. Back to my point I doubt the average consumer, that couldnt give two s***s about the name LC, feels the same. They look at two cars. One offers amenities galore (some even only present in more luxurious cars) when compared to the other, which is bare bones, and they cost the same price. Which one do you think the average person will choose?

It is exactly like people thought that would be when Toyota launched these two offers. The 6th gen will eat the 1958 for breakfast in terms of sales and the pile of 1958 will only grow. Which, honestly is a good thing because the stealerships will have to give aggressive discounts and it will get to a reasonable price close to $50ks, where it should be since the beginning.

 

[rexington14]

Ok. We get that you reeeeeally hate softex. Back to my point I doubt the average consumer, that couldnt give two s***s about the name LC, feels the same. They look at two cars. One offers amenities galore (some even only present in more luxurious cars) when compared to the other, which is bare bones, and they cost the same price. Which one do you think the average person will choose?

It is exactly like people thought that would be when Toyota launched these two offers. The 6th gen will eat the 1958 for breakfast in terms of sales and the pile of 1958 will only grow. Which, honestly is a good thing because the stealerships will have to give aggressive discounts and it will get to a reasonable price close to $50ks, where it should be since the beginning.

Maybe. I think these are fairly different and appeal to different buyer. Again, the 1958 is a stripper model in terms of features but not in terms of the powertrain and drivetrain where it's equipped with full time 4wd, and the hybrid. IMO these are pretty big advantages (to most folks, at least), that the 4R TRDORP trim doesn’t have. The 4Runner TRDORP makes up for this with more features/amenities and there's enough of them to bump up the price similar to 1958 territory.

 

[Jetboy]

It'll be interesting to check on this on a year or two. My guess is the 1958 will end up around TRD OR non premium price plus maybe 1-3k. I actually don't think many buyers will care about the AWD transfer case in the LC. The ones who do I think will lean heavily to the 4Runner limited because that buyer tends to be highway users primarily. And the limited has a lot more creature comforts, AWD and AVS suspension for $62k. My guess is 95% of the AWD buyers go that option. And the hybrid is about a wash in value with or without. So, I think the LC 1958 ends up pretty cheap comparatively.

 

[rexington14]

It'll be interesting to check on this on a year or two. My guess is the 1958 will end up around TRD OR non premium price plus maybe 1-3k.

Problem is Toyota already has the 4R TRD OR non premium w/ hybrid trim which is priced exactly that.

IMO I just don't really see a "value" issue or discrepancy with the pricing of the current LC and 4R trims as they sit. Other than a good ~$5k reduction applied evenly across the board for all of them. Toyota just dominates this segment, and rather than let the dealers mark them up they chose to do it themselves.

 

[APIOQM]

The 1958 price was already increased for 2025 MY. If demand is low, they will simply reduce supply. It's a niche trim, but the price is right.

 

[MRego]

I do not think the price is right and I say that based on the several 1958 sitting around in dealer lots near me. You can go to any dealer in my area and you will surely see at least 4 or 5 available. This is regardless of aggressive discounts some of these dealers are offering. I can only imagine what will happen when the 6thgen TDROP 4runners with amenities galore are sitting next to the 1958s manual and cloth seats.

and rather than let the dealers mark them up they chose to do it themselves.

Ah! the mark up argument. Have heard that a lot too. The problem is that dealers will not stop marking up because of a price hike by Toyota. Unsurprisingly we end up with dealer mark ups on top of the already inflated MSRPs. Yeeeyy.

 

[Jetboy]

The 1958 is pretty widely available for about $54k already. I don't think the 4Runner release will make the price go up.

I think the 4Runner will end up ~5k under MSRP across the board too, so it'll probably align in range, just not near MSRP. I bet we'll see $10k off top trims within 2 years as well.

It's not just Toyota. This seems to be happening industry wide. Maybe PPP money is finally running out?

 

[Big Tom]

I am 6'8". My wife is not (shame). I hate powered seats. They are slow, reduce overall adjustment, and I hate standing at the sill waiting to get in while I listen to the sound of a bomb bay door opening. Equally, I hate powered lift gates because I have arms with great articulation. These cloth seats are fantastic! I love the look and function of the 1958.

The power, driving experience and visibility are all spot on for me. I have but a single two part critique; I wish it either had a split tailgate or a wind down back window.

Everyone knows desirable 4runners skip a generation...7th will be perfect! just have to wait 15 years.

 

[rexington14]

I am 6'8". My wife is not (shame). I hate powered seats. They are slow, reduce overall adjustment, and I hate standing at the sill waiting to get in while I listen to the sound of a bomb bay door opening. Equally, I hate powered lift gates because I have arms with great articulation. These cloth seats are fantastic! I love the look and function of the 1958.

The power, driving experience and visibility are all spot on for me. I have but a single two part critique; I wish it either had a split tailgate or a wind down back window.

Everyone knows desirable 4runners skip a generation...7th will be perfect! just have to wait 15 years.

Don't forget the powered tilt and telescoping steering wheel, both of which motors have long since failed on my 100 series. Meanwhile, unsurprisingly, my Corolla's manual tilt steering wheel still functions perfectly.

 

[MRego]

Don't forget the powered tilt and telescoping steering wheel, both of which motors have long since failed on my 100 series. Meanwhile, unsurprisingly, my Corolla's manual tilt steering wheel still functions perfectly.

Oh well. If that’s the case just throw away that digital cluster and screens all together. Can’t imagine how they will look like in 10 years.

I am 6'8". My wife is not (shame). I hate powered seats. They are slow, reduce overall adjustment, and I hate standing at the sill waiting to get in while I listen to the sound of a bomb bay door opening. Equally, I hate powered lift gates because I have arms with great articulation. These cloth seats are fantastic! I love the look and function of the 1958.

The power, driving experience and visibility are all spot on for me. I have but a single two part critique; I wish it either had a split tailgate or a wind down back window.

Everyone knows desirable 4runners skip a generation...7th will be perfect! just have to wait 15 years.

I hope you do recognize you are in the minority of the car buyer population, which would certainly prefer an electrically adjusted seat and lift gate (especially the women who love the Prado looks). The 6th gen 4Runner, in the TRDOP trim, even has that kick gesture auto lift gate - which to me is a silly thing, but again people value these when cross shopping.

 

[rexington14]

Oh well. If that’s the case just throw away that digital cluster and screens all together. Can’t imagine how they will look like in 10 years.

Yep, digital clusters suck too. I much prefer actual gauges.

 

[Jetboy]

I'd like the digital dash a lot better if Toyota would open in up to give us more information. On every domestic truck you can see real time trans temp, coolant temps etc. All the stuff we have to use a OBD2 device and separate aftermarket solution for. Also - there's no excuse for the digital dash not automatically adjusting for tire size. The car has a GPS. It has signal from the ABS sensors. It can auto-calibrate its self with minimal effort. These are things that should be pretty basic inclusions in a digital dash world.

 

[onemanarmy]

The 1958 is pretty widely available for about $54k already. I don't think the 4Runner release will make the price go up.

I think the 4Runner will end up ~5k under MSRP across the board too, so it'll probably align in range, just not near MSRP. I bet we'll see $10k off top trims within 2 years as well.

It's not just Toyota. This seems to be happening industry wide. Maybe PPP money is finally running out?
View attachment 3841420

PPP money has been gone. that was only $3k, 4 years ago or whatever

people that will pay 96k for a bronco (should) make way more than the PPP cutoff allowed

 

[SanJuanJ]

Ben Hardy is an absolute tool.

 

[MRego]

Ben Hardy is an absolute tool.

Agree. Not debating that.

 

[Jetboy]

PPP money has been gone. that was only $3k, 4 years ago or whatever

people that will pay 96k for a bronco (should) make way more than the PPP cutoff allowed

Not the PPP money for poor people. The real PPP money.

About 75% of the PPP money went to the top 20%. For example Kanye got $5M. Tom Brady got $960k. There's a TON of mid size business owners with net worths in the 10-50M range who got $500k-$1M in PPP money. That's the money I'm talking about flowing to expensive cars.

 

[onemanarmy]

not to get into the weeds, and of course there was fraud and abuse (a given)

but the idea of the PPP money to businesses was to keep paying payroll. They had to keep paying the employees, instead of employees just getting fired. not all went to cars.

and there has been some high profile cases of PPP fraudsters getting caught
and it was 4+ years ago

anyway, cars are still too expensive