Talk me out of a 4Runner TRD Pro (2 Viewers)

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I’ll take this over a 4Runner…under warranty and a 200 in the garage. Lol! Steve(VP at Denver Land Rover) is getting in the Defender 110 with a V8 518hp and putting 37” on when it eventually arrives a few months down the road. He has about 30k mi. on this one without any issues so far. He got the Unicorn 🦄

Looks great. But where do the sliders attach to? To the unibody? What is the point then?

Will see how it holds up over time. All that weight and stress on what is already an unreliable/undurable platform/powertrain. And like most (if not all) electronic suspension, at high ride height (to fit big tires), the ride is pretty crappy on-road…and zero articulation.

To be honest, i would still take 4runner over this….
 
Looks great. But where do the sliders attach to? To the unibody? What is the point then?

Will see how it holds up over time. All that weight and stress on what is already an unreliable/undurable platform/powertrain. And like most (if not all) electronic suspension, at high ride height (to fit big tires), the ride is pretty crappy on-road…and zero articulation.

To be honest, i would still take 4runner over this….
Geez man!!! Stop being so logical. 🤪
 
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Looks great. But where do the sliders attach to? To the unibody? What is the point then?

Will see how it holds up over time. All that weight and stress on what is already an unreliable/undurable platform/powertrain. And like most (if not all) electronic suspension, at high ride height (to fit big tires), the ride is pretty crappy on-road…and zero articulation.

To be honest, i would still take 4runner over this….
It’s actually not on high ride height. It’s at normal. He talks about the build here. height
 
I’ll take this over a 4Runner…under warranty and a 200 in the garage. Lol! Steve(VP at Denver Land Rover) is getting in the Defender 110 with a V8 518hp and putting 37” on when it eventually arrives a few months down the road. He has about 30k mi. on this one without any issues so far. He got the Unicorn 🦄

Cool video! I do like the styling of the Defender. I even cross shopped it prior to buying the LC. My wife preferred the Defender as it looks more modern inside and out. But the quality control and unreliability are non-starters for me. Even if it's under warranty, I don't have the time or patience to keep taking it to the dealer. Indeed, that guy must have gotten the Unicorn.

I feel the same way about the Bronco. The styling looks great and it seems to perform well off-road. But it's a brand new platform and likely has a lot of kinks to work out.

I even considered buying another Wrangler Rubicon. I've owned two of them in the past (see attached pic). A 2010 JK Rubicon and a 2019 JL Rubicon. They were far from perfect but had a lot of character. Both of them had 2 doors and 3 pedals, the way a Jeep should be in my humble opinion! But my wife can't drive stick and getting my son in and out of a child seat in the back wasn't easy. So I sold them, as I couldn't justify another toy that only I could use. Sometimes I do miss the JL quite a bit!

The 4R is also far from perfect and I agree the interior looks dated. But I'm drawn to its simplicity, styling, reliability and (pretty decent) off-road performance. Not to mention my wife could drive it and I could easily put my 2 year old son in the backseat. There I go rationalizing an emotional purchase again!

So far the biggest concern I have with the 4R is I felt there was a lack of headroom during my test drive. That could be a deal breaker for me as I'm fairly tall. I might do another test drive to see how it feels.

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Cool video! I do like the styling of the Defender. I even cross shopped it prior to buying the LC. My wife preferred the Defender as it looks more modern inside and out. But the quality control and unreliability are non-starters for me. Even if it's under warranty, I don't have the time or patience to keep taking it to the dealer. Indeed, that guy must have gotten the Unicorn.

I feel the same way about the Bronco. The styling looks great and it seems to perform well off-road. But it's a brand new platform and likely has a lot of kinks to work out.

I even considered buying another Wrangler Rubicon. I've owned two of them in the past (see attached pic). A 2010 JK Rubicon and a 2019 JL Rubicon. They were far from perfect but had a lot of character. Both of them had 2 doors and 3 pedals, the way a Jeep should be in my humble opinion! But my wife can't drive stick and getting my son in and out of a child seat in the back wasn't easy. So I sold them, as I couldn't justify another toy that only I could use. Sometimes I do miss the JL quite a bit!

The 4R is also far from perfect and I agree the interior looks dated. But I'm drawn to its simplicity, styling, reliability and (pretty decent) off-road performance. Not to mention my wife could drive it and I could easily put my 2 year old son in the backseat. There I go rationalizing an emotional purchase again!

So far the biggest concern I have with the 4R is I felt there was a lack of headroom during my test drive. That could be a deal breaker for me as I'm fairly tall. I might do another test drive to see how it feels.
Just FYI, 4runner crash test SMALL offset score is abysmal:



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What about something like a GX460? A little more refined than a 4Runner and has the smooth 4.6L V8 6spd.

I've owned my 2013 LC for a few months now and just recently sold my 2016 4Runner. I think if you only have room for one vehicle than the LC makes more sense. However if I had enough disposable income and garage space I would have kept the 4Runner. There are plenty of things I miss about it and I probably should have kept it around as the off-road toy. I do like simplicity of the 4Runner. The manual HVAC controls are so much easier to use than having to use the infotainment in the LC. The interior storage is better. A place to put my cellphone and the cup holders are actually functionally for coffee cups and 32oz nalgenes. That sounds trivial but consider that you have to buy an aftermarket 3D printed plastic to have functional cup holders in the LC. The 2nd row and cargo area are more functional to use than the LC. I don't have a side folding 3rd row to deal with that eats up space and the seats fold forward and into the floor that creates a flat space for hauling items. The LC has a less functional cargo area since the the 2nd row seats sorta tumble forward. Off-road wise the benefits are the rear locker, clearance, less plastic, size, and fantastic aftermarket support for pretty much anything. The downsides are obvious and have already been discussed.

I'll say this though, I paid $35.2k for my 4Runner new in 2016. It took me on a lot of trails all over UT and CO. All the trails I've seen posted on the LCDC7 thread I did in my 4Runner with aplomb, it didn't require a $85k vehicle. Plus many more forest road trails and was my primary vehicle going to ski resorts in UT, CO, ID, WY, and MT. Never had a single failure, problem or anything such as a hiccup after 107k miles. My 2013 LC needed a new radiator at 69k. I've had two 5th gen 4Runners and have been on the t4r forums for the last 7 years or so. Several high mileage 220K+ vehicles and I have not heard of a single common failure point on these 5th gens. They're rock solid, durable and I can see them being 300k-400k mile vehicles easily. I get it, this is a LC centric forum and so it's easy to take a crap on the 4Runner for all its faults. They're extremely capable, reliable, and for $35k it was a hell of a value.

Plus if you want to compare it to a Bronco or Wrangler, while it might not be as capable off-road it tows 5,000lbs, has a payload of 1200-1500lbs, and has much larger cargo volume.
 
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What about something like a GX460? A little more refined than a 4Runner and has the smooth 4.6L V8 6spd.

I've owned my 2013 LC for a few months now and just recently sold my 2016 4Runner. I think if you only have room for one vehicle than the LC makes more sense. However if I had enough disposable income and garage space I would have kept the 4Runner. There are plenty of things I miss about it and I probably should have kept it around as the off-road toy. I do like simplicity of the 4Runner. The manual HVAC controls are so much easier to use than having to use the infotainment in the LC. The interior storage is better. A place to put my cellphone and the cup holders are actually functionally for coffee cups and 32oz nalgenes. That sounds trivial but consider that you have to buy an aftermarket 3D printed plastic to have functional cup holders in the LC. The 2nd row and cargo area are more functional to use than the LC. I don't have a side folding 3rd row to deal with that eats up space and the seats fold forward and into the floor that creates a flat space for hauling items. The LC has a less functional cargo area since the the 2nd row seats sorta tumble forward. Off-road wise the benefits are the rear locker, clearance, less plastic, size, and fantastic aftermarket support for pretty much anything. The downsides are obvious and have already been discussed.

I'll say this though, I paid $35.2k for my 4Runner new in 2016. It took me on a lot of trails all over UT and CO. All the trails I've seen posted on the LCDC7 thread I did in my 4Runner with aplomb, it didn't require a $85k vehicle. Plus many more forest road trails and was my primary vehicle going to ski resorts in UT, CO, ID, WY, and MT. Never had a single failure, problem or anything such as a hiccup after 107k miles. My 2013 LC needed a new radiator at 69k. I've had two 5th gen 4Runners and have been on the t4r forums for the last 7 years or so. Several high mileage 220K+ vehicles and I have not heard of a single common failure point on these 5th gens. They're rock solid, durable and I can see them being 300k-400k mile vehicles easily. I get it, this is a LC centric forum and so it's easy to take a crap on the 4Runner for all its faults. They're extremely capable, reliable, and for $35k it was a hell of a value.

Plus if you want to compare it to a Bronco or Wrangler, while it might not be as capable off-road it tows 5,000lbs, has a payload of 1200-1500lbs, and has much larger cargo volume.
Great input. Thanks for sharing.

The GX460 seems like a solid vehicle. I just can't get past the grill and the overall styling.

Your experience with the 4R pretty much sums up why I like them. Rock solid, durable and capable.
 
What about something like a GX460? A little more refined than a 4Runner and has the smooth 4.6L V8 6spd.

I've owned my 2013 LC for a few months now and just recently sold my 2016 4Runner. I think if you only have room for one vehicle than the LC makes more sense. However if I had enough disposable income and garage space I would have kept the 4Runner. There are plenty of things I miss about it and I probably should have kept it around as the off-road toy. I do like simplicity of the 4Runner. The manual HVAC controls are so much easier to use than having to use the infotainment in the LC. The interior storage is better. A place to put my cellphone and the cup holders are actually functionally for coffee cups and 32oz nalgenes. That sounds trivial but consider that you have to buy an aftermarket 3D printed plastic to have functional cup holders in the LC. The 2nd row and cargo area are more functional to use than the LC. I don't have a side folding 3rd row to deal with that eats up space and the seats fold forward and into the floor that creates a flat space for hauling items. The LC has a less functional cargo area since the the 2nd row seats sorta tumble forward. Off-road wise the benefits are the rear locker, clearance, less plastic, size, and fantastic aftermarket support for pretty much anything. The downsides are obvious and have already been discussed.

I'll say this though, I paid $35.2k for my 4Runner new in 2016. It took me on a lot of trails all over UT and CO. All the trails I've seen posted on the LCDC7 thread I did in my 4Runner with aplomb, it didn't require a $85k vehicle. Plus many more forest road trails and was my primary vehicle going to ski resorts in UT, CO, ID, WY, and MT. Never had a single failure, problem or anything such as a hiccup after 107k miles. My 2013 LC needed a new radiator at 69k. I've had two 5th gen 4Runners and have been on the t4r forums for the last 7 years or so. Several high mileage 220K+ vehicles and I have not heard of a single common failure point on these 5th gens. They're rock solid, durable and I can see them being 300k-400k mile vehicles easily. I get it, this is a LC centric forum and so it's easy to take a crap on the 4Runner for all its faults. They're extremely capable, reliable, and for $35k it was a hell of a value.

Plus if you want to compare it to a Bronco or Wrangler, while it might not be as capable off-road it tows 5,000lbs, has a payload of 1200-1500lbs, and has much larger cargo volume.
LC has comparable approach and departure angles to 4runner. Ground clearance actually favors LC. In addition, LC underbelly is much cleaner than 4runner. 4runner underbelly has all sorts of things hanging down below frame height. This is actually quite glaring even when compared to its competitors.

Rear locker is certainly nice in 4runner. But CRAWL is more stout in LC…able to run continuously longer. KDSS in LC allows for far more articulation than any 4Runner. I also think KDSS components are tucked in much better in LC.
 
LC has comparable approach and departure angles to 4runner. Ground clearance actually favors LC. In addition, LC underbelly is much cleaner than 4runner. 4runner underbelly has all sorts of things hanging down below frame height. This is actually quite glaring even when compared to its competitors.

Rear locker is certainly nice in 4runner. But CRAWL is more stout in LC…able to run continuously longer. KDSS in LC allows for far more articulation than any 4Runner. I also think KDSS components are tucked in much better in LC.
Interesting points. So the ground clearance on a LC 200 is greater than that of a 4R TRD Pro? I would have guessed the opposite since the TRD Pro has a mild lift. And visually the TRD Pro looks like it sits higher than the LC.
 
Interesting points. So the ground clearance on a LC 200 is greater than that of a 4R TRD Pro? I would have guessed the opposite since the TRD Pro has a mild lift. And visually the TRD Pro looks like it sits higher than the LC.
I was talking about regular 4runners. I don’t know about TRD PRO.
 
Here are LC200 “stats”:

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LC has comparable approach and departure angles to 4runner. Ground clearance actually favors LC. In addition, LC underbelly is much cleaner than 4runner. 4runner underbelly has all sorts of things hanging down below frame height. This is actually quite glaring even when compared to its competitors.

Rear locker is certainly nice in 4runner. But CRAWL is more stout in LC…able to run continuously longer. KDSS in LC allows for far more articulation than any 4Runner. I also think KDSS components are tucked in much better in LC.

Here's what I found in terms of stats

4Runner
Approach angle - 33*
Departure angle - 26*
Ground clearance - 9.6"

Land Cruiser
Approach angle - 32*
Depature angle - 24*
Ground clearance - 9.1"

Stats are close enough but combine that with a shorter wheel base, a few inches trimmed off in length and width, and side steps that are optional in a 4Runner out of the box those numbers give the 4Runner an advantage in some areas. Dimensionally it feels like a much smaller and more nimble truck. RTI score favors the Land Cruiser by a big margin. I opted not to get KDSS in my 4Runner for a few reasons. It's a PITA when changing suspension and creates problems hitting the rear trackbar of lifted trucks as well. Only recently did they come out with KDSS spacers to fix this on GX470/460 and 4Runners. A lot of people end up doing a KDSS delete when they go long travel.

What makes the crawl control system in the LC more stout? And what do you mean continuously run longer? Run longer in terms of time or distance? Has anyone proven this and where are the stats that show it can "run longer"? That's an honest questions as I'd like to know. I used the crawl control system a handful of times and you typically only use it to get over an obstacle and then turn it off right after. So I'm not sure being able to "run it longer" is that much of a deal here. Same with a locker. I use it to get over an obstacle then turn it off. As far as your comments on crawl control vs rear locker, my 4R had both. Again I only used the crawl control function a handful of times and that was because I wanted to test it out and see how it functioned, not because I used to get out of a rut. Other 99% of the time I used my rear locker and a-trac and it did the job without making the racket that Crawl control does. Also I prefer the manual feel and input of using a rear locker than Crawl control which took over everything. There's a reason why people add an ARB air locker or harrop e-locker to the Land Cruiser and their sentiments are probably like mine, they'd prefer a rear locker (and front) over using Crawl control.
 
Here's what I found in terms of stats

4Runner
Approach angle - 33*
Departure angle - 26*
Ground clearance - 9.6"

Land Cruiser
Approach angle - 32*
Depature angle - 24*
Ground clearance - 9.1"

Stats are close enough but combine that with a shorter wheel base, a few inches trimmed off in length and width, and side steps that are optional in a 4Runner out of the box those numbers give the 4Runner an advantage in some areas. Dimensionally it feels like a much smaller and more nimble truck. RTI score favors the Land Cruiser by a big margin. I opted not to get KDSS in my 4Runner for a few reasons. It's a PITA when changing suspension and creates problems hitting the rear trackbar of lifted trucks as well. Only recently did they come out with KDSS spacers to fix this on GX470/460 and 4Runners. A lot of people end up doing a KDSS delete when they go long travel.

What makes the crawl control system in the LC more stout? And what do you mean continuously run longer? Run longer in terms of time or distance? Has anyone proven this and where are the stats that show it can "run longer"? That's an honest questions as I'd like to know. I used the crawl control system a handful of times and you typically only use it to get over an obstacle and then turn it off right after. So I'm not sure being able to "run it longer" is that much of a deal here. Same with a locker. I use it to get over an obstacle then turn it off. As far as your comments on crawl control vs rear locker, my 4R had both. Again I only used the crawl control function a handful of times and that was because I wanted to test it out and see how it functioned, not because I used to get out of a rut. Other 99% of the time I used my rear locker and a-trac and it did the job without making the racket that Crawl control does. Also I prefer the manual feel and input of using a rear locker than Crawl control which took over everything. There's a reason why people add an ARB air locker or harrop e-locker to the Land Cruiser and their sentiments are probably like mine, they'd prefer a rear locker (and front) over using Crawl control.

With the 4runner, the ground clearance stat is wrong. Unfortunately, for 4runner, Toyota has always (and i mean always) fudge the clearance data! I remember my 2002 4runner had 11 inches of ground clearance but that was Toyota measuring from ground to frame!

4runner KDSS lowest point is 8.3” off the ground i believe. Same as Lexus GX. Now, if you don’t have KDSS, i think that your ground clearance is 9.0”?? With LC, the lowest point is the rear axle pumpkin which is around 9.0”.

Just one look under 4runner and LC, you can see how unclean the 4runner is. All sorts of things hang down.

As for CRAWL vs. Locker, i prefer to have both…so, bonus point to 4runner for that! I do love CRAWL tho. It kinda makes me look good during off-roading, even when i stink. :) Not sure where i read from, but i remember that LC CRAWL can run continuously for 15?? minutes? Don’t quote me tho…it was a long time ago that I read that when LC was introduced in 2008?
 
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The simple reason the RTI is so much better despite the longer wheelbase is the dramatically greater wheel travel. Yes this can be improved on a 4Runner with suspension upgrades, but it can on 200 as well. Either way, more travel is a huge advantage on a trail, even if other numbers look marginally worse.
 
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Great input. Thanks for sharing.

The GX460 seems like a solid vehicle. I just can't get past the grill and the overall styling.

Same here. I think my '12 GX was one of the last to not have the darth vadar grill. Kills it for me as well. Too bad because the GX addresses every issue that I had with the 4R. I think that the engine/transmission tuning is better than my 200. Some of the same low speed/coast hard shifts but it downshift more aggressively and held longer. I.e. it really gets everything out of the 4.6. It gets about 2.5mpg better than the 200. That isn't a concern for me given neither were daily drivers, but may be for others. Total range was about the same, which is an issue for me.
 
I’m about to go through this whole thread simply because it grew to 7 pages in 14 hours! Want to see what the fuss is about.

but to the OP, could you Turo one? Seen a few in the NYC area. Failing that go to a 4Runner forum and offer up $100 to anyone who will let you ride there’s around. Or maybe exchange drives I bet loads of 4Runner folks would love to drive a LC.

EDIT: per my user name I went GX to LC. I considered a 4Runner till I realized none of them except the lame one (sorry) had full time AWD. Wanted that for the wife to make things simple. The GX I had had the luxury package and crawl control etc. however I prefer the LC by a mile. The GX was too slow 7.7 seconds 0-60 vs 6.6 with the bigger LC200 and only 1mpg more fuel economy. I miss the GX sometimes in the city bc the LC is big. But the LC is still smaller than any pickup or Yukon so it’s all relative.
 
Read the whole thread.

Dude the answer is 80 series land cruiser. Cooler than 4Runner and might hold value better. Same size. Actually looks better (IMO). You can get a fully built 97 one for $25k. Stick aftermarket CarPlay in there. Be different than all the bros on the road and might even flip for a profit.

Your land cruiser will be more modern and safe for family hauling but it sounds like the use case is just to have something different to complement it.

I too wanted something fun to complement my land cruiser but went w different direction and ended up with a BMW M2 6MT
 

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