Synthetic Oil (1 Viewer)

[ELLTEE]

Not to hijack, but just to clarify:

XL -- why does a Honda tech have four Toys and no Ho-Hos in his sig line? ???
It must be a little bit frosty at work, when the boss walks by your parking space.

LT
8)

 

[landtank]

Ya and why are you tearing down all these Honda engines?

 

[Pitbull]

[quote author=Gumby link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100321#msg100321 date=1076078480]
Many folks steadfastly adhare to 50 year old wisdom on many many things automotive. Yearly tune-ups, jump starting procedures, pumping the gas on start up, pumping the brakes in the snow, and old engines need thick-ass oil.

Carbs no longer dump gas into the oil, engines are built better with WAY better tolerances than the bad old days. While it is true the engineers want the cars to get better gas mileage, they also design them to run well on the thinner oil.

If it's true that most wear occurs on start up, why, why, why, use 15W or 20W oil unless your engine has exterme bearing wear?
[/quote]

Todd, I think you broke the code on this oil discussion. I can now continue to use my Mobil1 5w30 and feel good about myself

 

[cary]

[quote author=xl715 link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100147#msg100147 date=1076036032]
Better I throw in my 2 cents later than not at all. If you change your oil every 3000 miles, like you should, don't waste your money on synthetics!! The oil isn't in thier long enough to make a bit of difference. If you run syn to go longer on an oil change thats your engine. NY city cab co. did a test a few years ago where they took 100 cabs, half ran only syn and the others ran normal oil. After 100,000 miles they pulled down all motors and found absolutely no difference in the motors - at all!! The reason newer motors(01 and newer Hodas) recommed a light 5w-20 oil is because the clearences in the newer motors is soooo tight that a thicker oil won't flow well enough at cold temps to lube the motor. Just my input, you do what you want with your money/engines:}
[/quote]

Sorry but I am going to take you task on the above:

1) There is no reason to change oil every 3000 miles, except to waste money. If you look at the UOA's on Mineral oils, you will see with the rare exception of certain motors that are very hard on oil that Mineral is good to 4000-6000 miles. The LC with an 8 quart sump easily allows for 4000-6000 mile changes on mineral.

2) As already mentioned, the CU test was seriously flawed as the motor oils were always kept hot which artifically extented the life of their additive packages and lowered wear.

3) Not all new motors that use 5w-20 have closer clearances. In fact both Honda and Ford DID NOT have a motor redesign when they changed their recommendation for oil weights retroactively.

To the other posters:

You can run Rotella T synth out to 7500 with no problems, unless you are in artic conditions, very short trips where the motor never warms up.

The 5w-30 & 10w-30 recommendation are because of US CAFE miliage standards. Same engine overseas recommends 40 & 50 weight for warm and hot weather. That said, you will not harm the motor using 30 weight oils, but will likely lower wear slightly and give an increase margin of safety under hard running conditions with a 40 weight.

The 15w-50 is fine. My only concern is if you go to Tahoe and have 0 degree starts. I would not run 15w-50 below 30-40f.

Cary

 

[landtoy80]

AU motor oil specification.
1fzfe motor
20w50 oil- -7 deg to 38 plus
15w40 oil -10 deg to 38 plus
10w30 oil -18 to +38 deg
5w30 -30 to 8 deg celcius
all temps are in celcius
Thank to Andrew of AU

US
10w-30 -18 to 38 deg cel
5w-30 10 and colder deg cel

you do the math

 

[Pitbull]

[quote author=landtoy80 link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100451#msg100451 date=1076097387]
AU motor oil specification.
1fzfe motor
20w50 oil- -7 deg to 38 plus
15w40 oil -10 deg to 38 plus
10w30 oil -18 to +38 deg
5w30 -30 to 8 deg celcius
all temps are in celcius
Thank to Andrew of AU

US
10w-30 -18 to 38 deg cel
5w-30 10 and colder deg cel

you do the math
[/quote]

I can't do the math it's in Celcius. I'm an F guy not a C guy :whoops: shouldn't of said that

 

[RavenTai]

here they are converted to Fahrenheit



1fzfe motor

AU
20w50 19.4 to 100.4 plus
15w40 14.0 to 100.4 plus
10w30 -0.4 to 100.4
5w30 -22 to 46.4


US
10w-30 -0.4 to 100.4
5w-30 50 and colder

 

[tucker74]

So I've been reading this thread for a while now and am still some what confused (not that this question ever will have a blanket answer), so here's what I'm thinking. I was wanting to switch my '93 over to synthetic (140K) and live in a warm climate (central Texas)....so I'm looking at 10-110F max range in ambient temp (averaging on the high end). So the Toyota spec. says 10W-30, which only covers to 100F - this doesn't seem good to me when I can walk out of the office in Aug. to temps well in the triple digits. I was going to try the Mobil 1 "SUV" 5W-40....does anyone have any input on this (or Delvac which seems to be the same thing from what I understand)? I don't really need the 5W but from what I've read synthetics don't get the viscosity range from polymer expansion like dino does so it shouldn't matter...but it is a big range. I currently use 10W-30 dino every 3K....am I asking for trouble or what?

Tucker

 

[Pitbull]

[quote author=raventai link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100489#msg100489 date=1076101763]
here they are converted to Fahrenheit



1fzfe motor

AU
20w50 19.4 to 100.4 plus
15w40 14.0 to 100.4 plus
10w30 -0.4 to 100.4
5w30 -22 to 46.4


US
10w-30 -0.4 to 100.4
5w-30 50 and colder
[/quote]

Looks like I should use Mobil 1 10w30 instead for Mobil 1 5w30 based on the temp's where I live. Not a problem

 

[e9999]

are the numbers above right? Different top end weight for same temps and the 10 Celsius that maybe was a -10?
E

 

[Pitbull]

If you have a 5W30 in Mobil 1 or a 10w30 in mobil 1 doesn't that mean that the oil as a 5w30 flows like a 5 weight in the cold and protects like a 30 weight. Then why buy a 10w30 since it will only flow like a 10 weight in the cold and not protect any better than the 5w30???? since it still protects like a 30 weight?

 

[xl715]

LT, the reason I have 4 toy's and no HO's is that I look at hondas all day long at work, the last thing I whant to see in my driveway is one of those. I get to tear down motors for all diferent reasons, mainly the import tuner kids who blow there motors up need to be torn down for extended service contracts to verify the cause of failure(usually caused by a cold air intake sucking up water and hydro locking the motor, we get alot of those here in the northwest)
Sorry for the off thred reply!

 

[Gumby]

[quote author=Pitbull link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100617#msg100617 date=1076113457]
If you have a 5W30 in Mobil 1 or a 10w30 in mobil 1 doesn't that mean that the oil as a 5w30 flows like a 5 weight in the cold and protects like a 30 weight. Then why buy a 10w30 since it will only flow like a 10 weight in the cold and not protect any better than the 5w30???? since it still protects like a 30 weight?
[/quote]

5W means it flows like a 5 viscosity rated oil in the Winter, or when it's cold. The second number means it flows like a 30 at operating temps. you might want a 10W number if you want a thicker oil on start up. For instance if you have excessive bearing wear and have low oil pressure on start up. I have found 10W kills my start up rattle when it's warm out.

 

[IdahoDoug]

XL,

I appreciate the input on wear characteristics, and your observations. It's always great to hear from people who work on them regularly.

I think it's safe to say that despite you seeing dino engines looking good at high mileage, the synthetic oils will reduce wear and have other benefits. Period. Yes there are well cared for dino engines, but that does not in any way support that synthetic has no benefits. These two points are unrelated statistically. I know that's not what you're saying, but I wanted to clarify.

Cary, great stuff on viscosity. What Mobil 1 viscosity do you recommend for a +20 to +40 degree winter, and +60 to + 90 degree summer climate? We tow heavily in the summer, with passes, etc. It has had Mobil 1 since the first oil change. Thanks in advance.

 

[Junk]

Ok, so based on all these posts and great information, I assume it is safe to continue using WD40?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Junk-you hold the world record for blown 1FZ-FE's and now we know your secret! I was going to ask what you used, and do the exact opposite, though I vaguely remember you are an Amsoil man. Use the WD to take off adhesive, and as spray cologne. Otherwise keep it away from your 80.

 

[Junk]

Yeah, use Amspoil 5w30. Will keep the WD40 for the squaw.

 

[RavenTai]

[quote author=e9999 link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100543#msg100543 date=1076106582]
are the numbers above right? Different top end weight for same temps and the 10 Celsius that maybe was a -10?
E
[/quote]

I cannot vouch for the source #’s but I just double checked the C>F conversion, FWIW the source #’s look about right to me


[quote author=tucker74 link=board=2;threadid=1585;start=msg100515#msg100515 date=1076104722] I don't really need the 5W but from what I've read synthetics don't get the viscosity range from polymer expansion like dino does so it shouldn't matter...but it is a big range. I currently use 10W-30 dino every 3K....am I asking for trouble or what?

Tucker
[/quote]

I have also heard that synthetics need less polymer Viscosity Index Improvers, but for large spans most still need some, VII’s are the first portions of oil to degrade, Delvac 1 is suppose to be extremely sheer stable witch would indicate that is does not have any VII’s I am not sure how Exxon/Mobil did it, I am still waiting to see A virgin oil analysis over at bitog to be sure that the M1 suv is Delvac 1. if so it would be a great deal cheaper no driving to a truck stop to get it and in quart instead of gallon bottles, I have a similar climate to you and right now it looks like I will be running D1 when I get the new cruiser, before I decided to sell my truck I was going to use it in it. But I am going to stick with M1 in it

You will have no oil related problems if you change with dino every 3k, synthetics oil is better oil in almost every way except cost but will it pay off for you? No one can tell you how much longer your engine would last with synthetic vs dino, also you are more likely a head gasket, wreck, run out oil, transmission failure or the 1000 other things that can happen or just age of the body will cause you to get rid of it before the engine internals wears out, in witch case the extra expense is wasted, but for me the engine cleanliness improved gas mileage (very small but offsets some of the cost) longer drains and most importantly “that warm fuzzy-I'm doing something good for my car-feelling.” Make synthetic worth it for me

I would recommend synthetic in the tranny transfer and the diffs they stay in longer and give you much longer interval to pay back in fuel saving along with better protection

 

[Pokemon]

For me, 3FE with 164,000 mi.
I commute 17 miles one way, 95% freeway.
I use the Chevron 15w-40. Oil change intervals
should vary depending on your driving conditions period.
For my use, changes are in the 5-6k max range. If I hit the trail or do heavy towing long distance, different story... As my trail vehicle gets it when water is a possible threat or heavy dust from the trail is there, among other issues....
Yeah, I use the oil in my trail rig as well... I like the K.I.S.S. idea.
Sorry guys, I remember the 6K oil changes on the "old" motors people weren't even changing it then...lol
It wasn't the 6k oil changes that shortened their life, under "normal driving conditions. People just didn't do it that much.
Remember this was dino oil too.
But hey, change it more often if your need arises. No problems here.

 

[landtoy80]

You would think that the 80 would have a oil change light.
The Previa had one.