Switch Rating for Winch?

[sjpitts]

I am about to install my 8274 winch on my 80. I dislike having power to the winch at all times, so I would like to be able to disconnect the power from the winch unless I am in a situation where I need it. On my 55, I just used separate terminal connectors to the battery and left the positive cable to the winch disconnected from the battery unless I was going to use it.

For my 80 I would like something a little more elegant. In searching the various threads it seems like people are using a variety of different types of marine battery switches. My concern is with the rating. My understanding (from Warn's website) is that the 8274 will pull 450 Amps at full load. Most the marine battery switches I have seen are only rated to 350 continuous. Do I need to go higher than that?

I did find one higher rated switch, but it is pretty expensive.

Here is an example of a 350 amp rated switch:

http://shop.torresen.com/ships_stor...rod_name=Switch+Battery+On/Off&sectionid=2986

Here is one rated for 600 Amps continuous, but it is much more expensive.

http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&mfc=BLUE SEA&sku=3000&frm=g

Do I need the higher rating, or is the 350 Amp sufficient?

Jared

 

[CruisinGA]

I don't see a need for such a setup, but a simple and inexpensive way to switch the load-carrying cable would be to install another Warn winch solenoid ($12) in the power lead from the battery to the winch control pack, and control that solenoid with an in-cab switch.

I really don't see why any of this is necessary...

 

[sjpitts]

I really don't see why any of this is necessary...

It probably isn't necessary. But it still seems like a good idea to me.

First, there is the story (probably an urban legend) of malcontents finding your vehicle in the parking lot, pulling out winch cable, and using a paperclip to turn on the winch and wreck havoc.

Second, it just seems like having a 1/0 gauge wire running directly (no fuse, no circuit breaker) from the battery to the winch is a bit dangerous.

So why not minimize the amount risk by putting a switch in the circuit, allowing your to easily turn the power on and off -- so you can keep it off for the 98% of the time you are using the vehicle and don't need a winch? I figure I can turn on the winch when I leave for a trip where I might use it, but otherwise leave it off.

The solenoid idea would work, but it seems even more complicated to me, more likely to fail, and I don't really need the extra convenience of being able to turn on the winch from inside the cab. I won't be switching it that often.

What is the amp rating for those solenoids, anyway?

Jared

 

[FJ40_owner]

It probably isn't necessary. But it still seems like a good idea to me.

First, there is the story (probably an urban legend) of malcontents finding your vehicle in the parking lot, pulling out winch cable, and using a paperclip to turn on the winch and wreck havoc.

Second, it just seems like having a 1/0 gauge wire running directly (no fuse, no circuit breaker) from the battery to the winch is a bit dangerous.

So why not minimize the amount risk by putting a switch in the circuit, allowing your to easily turn the power on and off -- so you can keep it off for the 98% of the time you are using the vehicle and don't need a winch? I figure I can turn on the winch when I leave for a trip where I might use it, but otherwise leave it off.

The solenoid idea would work, but it seems even more complicated to me, more likely to fail, and I don't really need the extra convenience of being able to turn on the winch from inside the cab. I won't be switching it that often.

What is the amp rating for those solenoids, anyway?

Jared

My 15000 Warn winch draws up to 400 Amps. That is a big ass fuse and a big ass connctor to make. Do you have the tools to make a splice/connection like that? You'll have to make two connections, one on each side of the fuse. make them right or you'll have problems. In my mind your paranoia isn't worth the effort.

You could potentially burn out your winch if the connections are not made properly.

Why not make some kind of interlock to the control side of the solenoids. Simple, safe and LOW CURRENT.

My .02

JB

 

[619TOY]

I've heard that urban legend as well. That fear in conjunction with wanting a more custom install has helped point me in the direction moving the solenoid pack under the hood and remote mounting the controller connector.
I wouldn't be afraid of keeping the power wires hooked up as long as they're routed intelligently. You do have a huge power wire running to your starter unprotected after all. Don't forget that a switch is another point of possible failure (correctly rated or not).

As far as using a Warn solenoid, I believe that the power runs through four of those in parallel when winching so one wouldn't be enough. I should have my winch by the end of the week so I may come up with more in depth ideas then.

 

[sjpitts]

My 15000 Warn winch draws up to 400 Amps. That is a big ass fuse and a big ass connctor to make. Do you have the tools to make a splice/connection like that? You'

JB

Let me clarify. I don't want to use a fuse. I just want to use a switch-- for example, a marine battery switch. See the examples I linked to above.

I think others have done the same thing.

I just don't know what AMP rating I would need in a switch.

Jared

 

[619TOY]

Why not make some kind of interlock to the control side of the solenoids. Simple, safe and LOW CURRENT.

My .02

JB

That's how I'd do it too if you're only worried about the vandalism aspect

 

[CruisinGA]

I just don't know what AMP rating I would need in a switch.

Jared

Max rated current draw of the 8274 is 450 amps on an 8000 # pull.

If you stall it, you could be looking at a momentary 500+ amps.

I would not install anything in the supply to control box that cannot handle at least a continuous 450 amps, 600 momentary.

 

[mobi-arc]

Use a welding quick-disconnect.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

IMO just leave it hooked up, seems like a useless mod to me... I have always had my winches hooked up, for years and years now with no issues

 

[dfmorse]

sj;
Here's what I have done. The switch from JCWhitney [Item # ZX747827P ] is an american made switch rated at over 500amps; very well made. Just use locktite on the small screw that holds the knob to the shaft.

This switch will easily handle the 500 amp surge and 300 amp run/load current of my Warn 10k winch; I have measured this under load conditions.


http://homepage.mac.com/dfmorse/BattProj2/page13.html


http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Browse/tf-Browse/s-10101/N-111+10201+600000926/c-10101


http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/...Id-100000213415/Pr-p_CATENTRY_ID:100000213415

...

 

[sjpitts]

Use a welding quick-disconnect.

Sounds like a good idea-- but I don't know "welding quick-disconnect" is-- can you tell me more?

Jared

 

[sjpitts]

IMO just leave it hooked up, seems like a useless mod to me... I have always had my winches hooked up, for years and years now with no issues

You are probably right-- there is a very low probability of problem. As was said before, starters are hooked up the same way, and there is rarely a problem there either. But then, a starter cable doesn't run outside of the engine compartment.

However, adding a switch doesn't seem like it would hurt---- assuming I use sufficiently capable switch.

Jared

 

[slickrock]

use a solenoid in between the battery and the winch with a low volt line into the cab to a toggle and a relay. That is how the old cable control winches work and solves all your problems.

 

[mobi-arc]

Usually a cam-lock connection. Picture connecting two runs of say #4 cable together via a male and female twist-lock connection.

See the following:

http://www.perfectswitch.com/images/accessories/femaledinse.jpg
http://www.perfectswitch.com/images/accessories/maledinse.jpg

I would use two males and two females.
From winch run #4 cable and terminate with female.
From battery positive, run #4 cable and terminate with female.
As the females are insulated, no way to short.
Use a "patch" cable, terminate both ends with males and shove in your winch accessory bag. When you want to winch, insert patch cable to bridge the battery to the winch.

We use an Italian manufacturer called Trafimet. MUUUUCH better quality than Tweco and engineered so that as the connectors cam twist into position, it draws the connector faces into contact so you get the benefit of tremendously more surface area contact. More contact = more efficient and less power being dissipated as heat.

You can find this kind of connector from your local welding shop, though they probably don't carry Traffimet.

Food for thought.

Sounds like a good idea-- but I don't know "welding quick-disconnect" is-- can you tell me more?

Jared

 

[gladly]

use a silinoid in between the battery and the winch with a low volt line into the cab to a toggle and a relay. That is how the old cable control winches work and solves all your problems.

x2, but a solenoid, not a silinoid

 

[pismojim]

Jarod,

I'm using a battery switch with my Warn XP9.5 and my dual battery system on my FJ60. I know several others using the same set up. No problem. I leave the switch in OFF for no power to the winch, 1 or 2 for winching from either battery, or BOTH to winch from both batteries at the same time. It works great although I haven't stalled the winch too often. That's what double line pulling with my snatch block is for.

I have the same system in my FZJ80 but no winch - yet. I'll be running a Warn 12K through the same switch soon. The specs look good to me.

Look for Blue Sea System 9001 at West Marine website. It's about $35. Connect with 3/8 lugs on welding cable. Piece of cake.

From the spec sheet:

Rated the top standard-duty switch by Powerboat Reports

Rated 350A continuous/600A Intermittent/700A Cranking/1750A Inrush with the new Engine Starting Standard. Tin-plated copper terminals are 3/8” for better conductivity. Luminous face plate, pointer and tactile indicators for safe operation in low light. Surface mount with four 1/4” fasteners on 3” centers or flush mount in a 3 5/8” hole. Fits in same hole pattern as other popular model battery switches.

* Switch Material: Lexan Polycarbonate Terminal Material/Size: Tin-plated Copper; 3/8"
* Switch Dimensions: 3.85" x 3.85" x 3.1"
* Approvals: UL 1500, SAE J1171, CE
* Warranty: Lifetime

Here's a view of the switch and dual battery set up on my 80:
Dual Battery Set-up with switch

You'll find links to others, including a write-up on SleeOffroad, using the same type switch.

Good Luck,

 

[sjpitts]

Jarod,

I'm using a battery switch with my Warn XP9.5 and my dual battery system on my FJ60. I know several others using the same set up. No problem. I leave the switch in OFF for no power to the winch, 1 or 2 for winching from either battery, or BOTH to winch from both batteries at the same time. It works great although I haven't stalled the winch too often. That's what double line pulling with my snatch block is for.

I have the same system in my FZJ80 but no winch - yet. I'll be running a Warn 12K through the same switch soon. The specs look good to me.

Look for Blue Sea System 9001 at West Marine website. It's about $35. Connect with 3/8 lugs on welding cable. Piece of cake.

From the spec sheet:


Here's a view of the switch and dual battery set up on my 80:
Dual Battery Set-up with switch

You'll find links to others, including a write-up on SleeOffroad, using the same type switch.

Good Luck,

Jim

I really like that set up-- using the same switch to disconnect the winch and provide power to the winch from either or both batteries is great plan.

And now that I see the full listing of specs for that switch I think it would be fine. Originally I was concerned that 350 Amp rating would not be sufficient for winch that could pull 450 amps-- but given that it is rated for 600 Amps intermittant, 750 cranking--it will probably be fine.

But yesterday I bought the HD version off ebay . This one:

http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&mfc=BLUE SEA&sku=3000&frm=g

That one has a higher rating (600 AMP continuous), but it is only on/off, and thus can't be used combine or select from two batteries for winching.

Jared

 

[siglo]

I have a setup similar to pismojim's on my 100

the switch is made by perko and is rated for 380amps continuous and 850 intermittent (5 minutes) which works fine.. This is how everything is connected..

I've discussed my setup in this thread and got really good feedback from other mudders which helped me a lot..

 

[Grench]

I doubled up the switches and used two batteries with 300 amp fuses on them (failsafe). When drawing from both batteries at once, the winch load should be effectively split in half (more or less) between the batteries. At least thats my theory.

It is in the 80s dual battery FAQ:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=1382955&postcount=47

I found Defender Marine to have generally better prices on electrical stuff.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|51495|299265&id=183570

Blue Seas systems also has a new higher capacity version of the switch. 500 amps, but I don't know where to tell you to get one.
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=171039&d_Id=18015&l1=7459&l2=7492

YMMV...