Steering Wander on my 82FJ, help needed!

[merbesfield]

I need help with my 1982 FJ steering. It is wandering bad, on both straights and curves. On the straights it wanders all over. On the curves it feels like I am going to lose control sometimes. Steering direction/input is either too much or not enough. Scary. Here are the details. The truck only has 42K miles on it. It did not have power steering so I sourced all the original factory parts to add it. I had both the PS gear box and the Pump professionally rebuilt before having them installed. I had a local shop that specializes in Cruisers do the work. They installed all new OEM TRE's, links. and new Rag joint. So everything is 100% new or rebuilt with the exception of the Center Arm, which they adjusted. Stock suspension, no lift. The truck does have typical squat to the rear like so many cruisers. Before I converted to PS the truck drove almost the same as it does now, though the steering box was worn, so I thought. I thought PS and all new parts, would fix everything. Well it is easy to steer now , but still wanders all over the place. The shop did an alignment the old school method. I wanted to rule that out so I had them send it down to tire shop for computer alignment. No change . Steering does not self center. Also if turned to full right turn lock the right front tire rubs into the TRE on the end of main steering shaft link. The new rubber boot is now torn up. Tires are BFG TA 33x10.5, so nothing crazy. Wheels are aftermarket old school white wagon wheels, a little wider than stock, but again nothing crazy. After all this time, work and money I am really diissapointed. I would really appreciate some help. This is a super nice original low mile cruiser that should drive like new, but right now it is far from that. I have read about Caster angle. I am not sure if they checked it. Most of what I read it seemed like Caster angle was an issue on lifted trucks, not sure if it pertains to stock ones or if the fact that the truck squats to the rear is partly to blame. Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give all the details. Thanks again.

 

[shawnfj40]

Pics might help. Do you have stock length shackles? I think your onto something with caster angles. The usual suspect when it is off is someone wanted a greasable shackle and the only way was to use a longer than stock version. That may be your source. If it is you will ust need correction shims or stock shackles.

 

[trainrech]

Was an alignment done?

 

[firestopper]

I had similar issues , I ended up rebuilding and adjusting the center arm.
The rubbing more than likely is due to incorrect offset of your after market wheels.
Make sure your "bump stops"are adjusted correctly in both L/R. You might be able to extend the stop just enough to prevent rubbing without limiting your turning radius too much.

Try to snug the center steer arm a bit and make sure it has been lubed.
Also check the end of the relay rod that connects to the steering box. The end of it has a large slotted adjustment type cap. (Search this) Extra "free play" in the steering system will cause wondering as you probably know.
FWIW, my 82 40 will not come back to center (all the way) on its own after a full turn but it tracks perfectly. We aligned it after the front axel rebuild with a simple tape measure three years ago and some 30K later.

Have some one in the drivers seat with engine running (neutral and parking brake) give some very slight steering wheel inputs (SLIGHT R/L) while you look for free play starting at the steering box working your way to the center steer etc.

Best of luck

 

[Canarias]

If your wheel is rubbing on your TRE boot then you can either put in a spacer or a change for a wheel that doesn't rub. This is probably not the cause of your problem but it's something you know is wrong and it needs fixing anyway. Best to fix this first as the effect of fixing it will increase your track width and have knock on effects for other calculations/measurements you might make. A cheap set of 5mm spacers may be all you need.

Have you got a pic of your front shackle angle?
Check length of your tie rod, relay rod and drag link. The shop most likely did this correctly but it's free and quick to check.
Is your steering damper also new?
Are your tyres pumped up properly (sorry if this is obvious but low tyre pressure can cause the exact problem you are experiencing).

You mentioned no lift, do the rear tyres rub? 33s would rub at times on a non-lifted 40 series (unless its a 45/47). Maybe you do have a lift and thus caster angle looks even more likely if this wasn't checked/adjusted at time of installing lift.

Your problem will get resolved on this thread if you post some good pics esp of your shackles.

 

[merbesfield]

Thanks for the input thus far.

To clarify a few points:
The suspension is stock, so std shackles. But as mentioned, the truck sits low in rear?
All parts are 100% new or rebuilt.
TRE at end of steering box never touched tire before rebuild.
Center arm was greased and snugged.

Thanks and keep it coming.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

I know you said it had two alignments, one 'old school' and one 'computer'. But, I would still suspect the 'toe-in' is not set properly - improper toe-in will make it wander. Toe-in is set by adjusting the length of your tie-rod, I would check that, as well as the length of your relay rod - make sure they're lengths match the FSM for your year.

The newer OEM tie rods are threaded a bit deeper to allow a more optimum toe-in.

You can easily adjust toe-in - @Pin_Head explains it clearly in post# 12 of THIS THREAD.

If your TRE is only rubbing when you make a hard turn, it sounds like you need to properly adjust the 'end stops' on the back of each wheel. If they look to be set properly, correct the toe-in and see if they still rub.

It's possible your front wheels are toed-out, causing the TRE to end up closer to the tire than it should be on a hard turn.

Follow Pin_head's instructions and set toe-in properly, then see how it drives.

HTH

 

[merbesfield]

Ok here are pics of front and rear. Let me know what you think. Steering damper is old. Shocks are white and have been painted black if that matters. Have not checked tire pressure but hope the shop that did the Allignment would have done so before performing Allignment.

Front:

Rear:

Front leaf pack:

Front wide angle pic:

 

[Landpimp]

how are the spring and shackle bushings?

tire pressure?

I run the exact same set up(expect OME suspension) on my 82........steering is perfect.....at 75 I can steer it with my knee

 

[merbesfield]

Pimp, how would I know condition of spring and shackle bushings? The FJ only has 42K miles so I would think they are still solid, tho they may be hard. Will check tire pressure, but I would hope the tire store that did the alignment would have checked the TP prior to performing an alignment. I know you have the same setup. This is what is so disappointing, I realize it should not be like this and had hoped that the professional shop would have know what to do. Do the pics above look correct. Do the shackles look correct? Do they look OEM? Any help is appreciated. Could the Caster be off? The truck sits low in the back.

 

[Canarias]

Everything in your pics looks stock except for the steering damper. What's going on with that damper, it should connect to the eye with the rubber grommet hanging form your frame crossmember in the left foreground of your last pic. Looks like it's the wrong damper & someone has fabbed a non standard bracket (hanging loose) for it to connect to. The damper should look like this..

 

[merbesfield]

Yes, steering damper is definitely not stock and the mount is questionable. I do believe it is solid, ie. not loose, but I will check to be sure. I am guessing that it was changed at the same time the PO changed the shocks out. Just a guess tho. The PO owns a Toyota dealership and everything that was ever replaced on the truck was with factory parts from his dealership, so I have to hope that the very first owner did this garbage. Still does not make it acceptable. The shop that did the PS conversion did not mention a problem with the damper tho. Guess I need to have Beno order me a damper. But I really need to figure out the wander issue. From most of the posts I read, steering dampers supposedly do not affect wander.

 

[cea1]

X2 on what Firestopper said above and Canarias' comments on the steering damper.

Either a center arm that is too tight and not lubed or a sloppy, not properly adjusted center arm will cause the type of steering problems you suggest, as will a number of other things. Best to take it all apart for cleaning, re-lube it and adjust properly if parts are not worn out. Can make a big difference.

As Firestopper suggested, have someone else steer while you watch steering components from outside and look for the slop.

Even though it's just been rebuilt, check steering box input vs. output while your rig is running too. Easy to check - turn the wheel and make sure the output shaft moves at the same time. If steering wheel moves much before the output shaft starts to move you'll have similar symptoms.

 

[merbesfield]

X2 on what Firestopper said above and Canarias' comments on the steering damper.

Either a center arm that is too tight and not lubed or a sloppy, not properly adjusted center arm will cause the type of steering problems you suggest, as will a number of other things. Best to take it all apart for cleaning, re-lube it and adjust properly if parts are not worn out. Can make a big difference.

As Firestopper suggested, have someone else steer while you watch steering components from outside and look for the slop.

Even though it's just been rebuilt, check steering box input vs. output while your rig is running too. Easy to check - turn the wheel and make sure the output shaft moves at the same time. If steering wheel moves much before the output shaft starts to move you'll have similar symptoms.

Center are was cleaned and lubed per the shop who did conversion. I will check the steering input output, but again, we are dealing with new rebuild and I would have expected the shop to confirm all was good upon fresh installation. This was exactly why I went with all new parts. I will look check the steering I/O tonight with the wife. I will also see if I can adjust the stops without affecting the turning radius. Again, it never rubbed before the front end was rebuilt/ So why now?

Can anyone comment further on the Caster angle and the fact that the truck sits low to the rear? Is this an issue? Thanks guys.

Edit: here is pic of tire rubbing TRE.

 

[Canarias]

You have a lot of threads showing on your drag link end. Maybe this needs to be adjusted, bringing the drag link end back and stopping the rubbing. Or maybe it was too short before, the shop has set it to correct length which makes it now rub. Measure distance end to end. I've only got the 75-80 manual to hand but I think for 82 it's the same..

Other thought.. Maybe you had spacers before and the shop forgot to put them back on? Take a front wheel off and there should be a witness from spacer if it was fitted before. Anyway this is unlikely related to your wander unless that drag link is actually loose and has been changing its length while you have been driving. It should twist slightly like a motorbike throttle, maybe 1/6th of a turn but as it twists the rod end should move with it. It shouldn't move along the thread at all.

I would bin the damper while waiting for correct part to arrive. As well as being wrong part, it is not attached to the correct locations at either end.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

That's your drag link that's connected to that TRE - there are a lot of clean threads showing on that drag... Does that mean that the drag link was replaced as well?

As I said above, proper toe-in makes a big difference and is easy to adjust yourself. Tie rod and relay rod length effect toe-in. Drag link should also be adjusted to proper length.

The FSM tells exactly how long each should be... I adjusted my new tie and relay rods per FSM and then had to toe-in another 1/8".

That corrected my steering wander.

 

[merbesfield]

That's your drag link that's connected to that TRE - there are a lot of clean threads showing on that drag... Does that mean that the drag link was replaced as well?

As I said above, proper toe-in makes a big difference and is easy to adjust yourself. Tie rod and relay rod length effect toe-in. Drag link should also be adjusted to proper length.

The FSM tells exactly how long each should be... I adjusted my new tie and relay rods per FSM and then had to toe-in another 1/8".

That corrected my steering wander.

Yes they installed a new drag link. All bars and TRE's were replaced. The shop said that was how they do it. Easier for them to order new parts than deal with old stuff. I did not argue, just wanted it to be perfect. Toe-in was set, twice. Once by shop with tape measure and once by modern allignment shop bc I was not satisfied with the wander issue. No change, still wanders.

Canarias, good idea to look for signs of spacer, but seems unlikely that they would have missed installing four of them. But it is possible the only one is missing. When you say "bin the damper" are you saying to remove it and trash it til the new one arrives? Thanks

 

[Landpimp]

take the steering stablizer off and take it for a spin.

it should be hooked up like this

 

[merbesfield]

take the steering stablizer off and take it for a spin.

it should be hooked up like this

That's a good idea, doh. Are the springs in that picture factory? My spring don't have the bolt with the spring pack strap like in your pic. Mine are just metal straps bent around the springs.

 

[Landpimp]

10 year old rusty OME springs(the old ones not Dakar) we don;t even have salt/rust issues up here. The Toyota part # tag on the tie rod is looking better

your spring/shackle are stock, they are pretty flat, ride nice but don't handle worth a darn, bumps/dips will tend to bounce the rig around and make it hard work to keep going down the road straight. (my 45LV is like this....)

if alignment is ruled out....

shocks....unless you just put them on.....assume they are bad and replace

I mentioned the bushing earlier, some wander can be found when they are bad...and they probably are(age not miles). But it sounds like more than you would get from just the bushings. have someone turn(hard) the wheel back and forth and you watch the springs move on the shackle or whatever else you find that clunks around

put the tires at 28-32psi.......they may be at what the say on the sidewall.....which(I am am guessing) 50psi, it will drive like poop(quick steering)

my guess is the backspacing on the wheels is causing the tire to rub, new springs really wont change it, the TRE may be adjusted but it wont be enough.

That's a good idea, doh. Are the springs in that picture factory? My spring don't have the bolt with the spring pack strap like in your pic. Mine are just metal straps bent around the springs.