Starter Solenoid Failure Mode (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

Had some time to poke around in the garage, so figured I'd finally tear into the failed starter that I changed out a few weeks ago.

Not starter specifically, but the solenoid/relay that is attached to the starter (bottom cylinder in picture). It's this high current relay built into the back of the solenoid that is failing us at ~100k miles, causing power to never reach the starter motor. Not completely atypical, as many cars experience problems with the starter relay as it is a wear item, but typically at higher miles.

Here's what the internals of mine looked like. Ignore the semi-destructive teardown of the plastic structure. It's the copper switching components that's interesting which takes the brunt of the mechanical wear and tear.

The way it works is as the solenoid pulls the plunger in (right), it sits the copper plate over the contacts (left), bridging the electrical connection and powering the starter motor.

You can definitely see a lot of degradation, corrosion/oxidation, and pitting in the contacts. The shiniest part is worn down such that it is below level. The contact is where the failure takes place.

The issue that I do not like is that when it fails, it fails hard. From perfectly working to nothing, perhaps without any warning. Traditionally, they fail progressively.

Fortunately, the part is only ~$100. Unfortunately, it is a 6-9hr job to replace.

2009 Toyota Land Cruiser Parts - Camelback Toyota Parts - Genuine OEM Parts - Free Shipping

 

[supercarrera]

Thanks for posting this. This is very good to know as my LX just hit 100k miles and I would rather buy a new solenoid than a rebuilt starter.

 

[TexAZ]

Since you are taking stuff apart, disassemble the starter and examine the brushes on the motor.
The rubber breather was completely caked with carbon when I replaced mine.
Replacing just the solenoid way be a cheaper option, but if the internals of the motor are wearing at the same rate, replace the whole thing as a single unit.

Buy once cry once. Especially since it is a multi hour replacement.

 

[2001LC]

Cool, I like taking stuff apart to see the why!

I agree if replacing magnetic switch (solenoid) at ~$100, it's well worth it to rebuilt starter motor at same time.

But here's the rub. With the older starter (before auto crank) we could just replace contacts and plunger of solenoid for $35. Clean and true commutator. Replace brushes, bearings, breather tubes and seals as necessary, clean and re grease drives. With auto crank feature the cost begins at $100+ for magnetic switch. If we then need other parts like bearing, brushes, etc. and consider time/labor and down time if ordering additional parts.

 

[mtman04]

Mine just failed today. Any tips or tutorial links on the DIY job? Really not looking forward to it. We're currently full time RVing and purchased a ginormous cummins as the 200 proved to be amazing and taxed for or TT setup. This job will be like a going away present.

 

[TexAZ]

Look up the procedure on the tundra forums.
Same parts and procedure. Lots more information out there from the tundra guys.

 

[TeCKis300]

Mine just failed today. Any tips or tutorial links on the DIY job? Really not looking forward to it. We're currently full time RVing and purchased a ginormous cummins as the 200 proved to be amazing and taxed for or TT setup. This job will be like a going away present.

Likw @TexAZ mentioned, look for Tundra tutorials. There's several on youtube which I found handy.

Some tips/notes 200-specific
1) No need to remove the manifold. Just the heatsheids.
2) No need to remove the complete exhaust. Undo the mid-pipe, along with unplugging the O2 sensors. Then just push aside to give enough room to work
3) When removing the starter/solenoid, finding the right angle to get it out from between the engine/frame/manifold can be a bit tricky. Once the starter assembly is detached from the block, remove the solenoid from the starter (IIRC 3x 10mm bolts). That'll make it easier to "deliver" the big baby.

 

[mtman04]

Thank you for those tips! I was wondering if the manifold really was necessary or not. Funny I remember needing to remove the starter on my F150 so I could remove the cracked passenger manifold. I’ve done a few in our first gen 4runners in the past. Gets easier after the first time!

Likw @TexAZ mentioned, look for Tundra tutorials. There's several on youtube which I found handy.

Some tips/notes 200-specific
1) No need to remove the manifold. Just the heatsheids.
2) No need to remove the complete exhaust. Undo the mid-pipe, along with unplugging the O2 sensors. Then just push aside to give enough room to work
3) When removing the starter/solenoid, finding the right angle to get it out from between the engine/frame/manifold can be a bit tricky. Once the starter assembly is detached from the block, remove the solenoid from the starter (IIRC 3x 10mm bolts). That'll make it easier to "deliver" the big baby.

 

[bloc]

Well, I tried this yesterday. Not sure if something about the exhaust changed in 2013 but on mine there was no way the downpipe was going backward far enough to clear the long studs hanging off the manifold. I'm not a small/weak individual and I wasn't coming close to bending the main exhaust backward enough to accomplish that.

That, plus breaking one of the three long studs when the bolt galled meant the manifold had to come out. Which meant the downpipe had to come out completely. Which meant the transmission crossmember had to come out.

Safe to say this job snowballed.

Now the starter is really easy to get to, at least.

Lessons? Use more PB blaster than I did. Have the three long studs and nuts on-hand already. And maybe a manifold gasket and all of the associated hardware you'd want to replace in the event the manifold needs to be removed.

The solenoid swap itself is super easy. 12-mm nut for the cable to the starter motor, 2-10mm nuts to remove the noid. And no, I'm not worried about using a 130k mile starter motor itself without rebuild.

 

[32cls6speedmt]

did you replace as preventive maintenance?

 

[bloc]

did you replace as preventive maintenance?

Yes. So far no issues with the starter but I now have another vehicle for DD use and the cruiser will only be taken on longer trips. I'm not about to have a starter fail at the top of Imogene Pass or somewhere equally as inconvenient.

 

[32cls6speedmt]

Thanks. Approximately, How long did it take for the whole project?

 

[Docboy]

Thanks for posting. My 09 LX is at 102k miles, and I'm getting paranoid that the starter (and radiator) is going to fail.

Thinking if I should get the starter and radiator replaced as a preventative measure.

 

[bloc]

Remember what I said about the job snowballing?

I couldn’t get the broken and galled studs out (sold my welder a while back. NEVER sell your welder) so I took it to a machine shop. They said they had trouble with them. Very evident by the galled holes left behind and obvious heavy use of a torch.

Well I didn’t notice it until I get home to clean it up and reinstall and now there is a crack on the rear port. Confirmed that it leaks with soap and compressed air. No soot on the other side and I don’t remember hearing a leak.. pretty sure it’s new. But, I can’t prove the machine shop did it so I’m buying a manifold.

Yes a good welding shop could probably fix this but I don’t have one I trust yet, don’t want to deal with the risk of it cracking later and having to repeat all the work, and the downpipe stud holes are pretty ****ed as well.

Oh and they are on backorder.

Use more PB blaster. And -never- sell your welder.

 

[dubyahard]

Had some time to poke around in the garage, so figured I'd finally tear into the failed starter that I changed out a few weeks ago.

Not starter specifically, but the solenoid/relay that is attached to the starter (bottom cylinder in picture). It's this high current relay built into the back of the solenoid that is failing us at ~100k miles, causing power to never reach the starter motor. Not completely atypical, as many cars experience problems with the starter relay as it is a wear item, but typically at higher miles.

Here's what the internals of mine looked like. Ignore the semi-destructive teardown of the plastic structure. It's the copper switching components that's interesting which takes the brunt of the mechanical wear and tear.

The way it works is as the solenoid pulls the plunger in (right), it sits the copper plate over the contacts (left), bridging the electrical connection and powering the starter motor.

You can definitely see a lot of degradation, corrosion/oxidation, and pitting in the contacts. The shiniest part is worn down such that it is below level. The contact is where the failure takes place.

The issue that I do not like is that when it fails, it fails hard. From perfectly working to nothing, perhaps without any warning. Traditionally, they fail progressively.

Fortunately, the part is only ~$100. Unfortunately, it is a 6-9hr job to replace.

2009 Toyota Land Cruiser Parts - Camelback Toyota Parts - Genuine OEM Parts - Free Shipping

Thanks for this. Mine failed at ~150k with no warning. Had to get it swapped quick since I’m leaving town and went reman. While there are very few solenoids in the US, Toyota said three, starters are aplenty. Confirmed it was solenoid by jumping the contacts with a lithium pack and starter still turned.
That job though... sheesh. Toyota does not allow easy access. I followed the below video and it was enough to get me through. I had to use my full suite of extensions and swivel sockets to access everything and even then had to play contortionist. Fortunately my truck is from Arizona and had no issue with sticking nuts after a quick spray with PB blaster.

 

[Kurosawa]

Hmmm, not exactly an emergency since I've got nowhere to go but I went to move my 2106 LC with 42k miles into the driveway so I could do a workout out of the rain and was greeted by a rapid clicking and no start. The display also flashed very rapidly in time with the clicking noise.

Am I experiencing solenoid failure? Has anyone heard of this happening at such low mileage?

 

[RET2]

Are you sure it's not the battery or connections?

 

[Kurosawa]

Are you sure it's not the battery or connections?

Yeah, I'm waiting on confirmation of that now, I have it plugged in and will let it take some juice for a couple hours. It could very well be the battery unless it's been replaced with a OEM Panasonic prior to my ownership (which I doubt since it's only 3 1/2yrs old) it is the original.

 

[RET2]

Yeah, I'm waiting on confirmation of that now, I have it plugged in and will let it take some juice for a couple hours. It could very well be the battery unless it's been replaced with a OEM Panasonic prior to my ownership (which I doubt since it's only 3 1/2yrs old) it is the original.

Get a Multimeter my friend and keep it in your vehicle. HF has those cheapy $5 ones. Seems as though OEM's go 3 or so years. Yeah I know some go much longer too.

 

[Kurosawa]

@RET2, I could use a second one for sure, my one good one is across town at my shop. I realized on our last trip when the fridge cord got yanked and I needed to do a field repair on one of the connections that while I was prepared for most mild mechanical repairs I was really underprepared for the much more likely little electrical repairs that crop up. I need to put together a little tool kit just for those that stays in the vehicle.