SQOD Squad - Stupid Question Of the Day (15 Viewers)

[linuxgod]

For those who have relocated their sway bar end links to the outside of the LCA anyone either know the original dimensions of the bolt that is used to hold the sway bar end links in place or the correct length for a new longer bolt?

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I'm looking at doing the KDSS relo and wanted to try what @Willy beamin did but I'd like to avoid taking the suspension apart just to measure the bolt.

Builds - TonyP's Build

You are going to love them. Thanks, looking forward to trying them out. I ordered the kdss relocation today and the tires should be here by Friday. Just in time for the 4 day weekend. Hopefully I can find a trail that isn't packed full of people.

forum.ih8mud.com

Replying to myself for posterity in case someone else wants to do this

• If you remove the end link bolt the end link will stay put if the vehicle is on the ground.
• The nut is captive - it's welded into the LCA as best I can tell.
• The OEM bolt is M14-1.5 fine thread with ~3"/80mm of threads. The replacement bolt will need to be 100-120mm in length. The OEM bolt has about 1/2" of thread sticking behind the nut, possibly more, but there's definitely another inch+ of free space in there. (I happened to have a pair of M14-1.5 ~120mm bolts sitting in my box-o-random-parts... I think from when I swapped the UCAs ages ago - so I am going to try those).
• The cradle for the KDSS link is approximately 1.5" deep. The KDSS end link is approximately 2" in diameter. Presumably the hole diameter is 14mm based on the bolt size.
  • I bought a pair of these in 1.5" deep option, cost was $10 plus shipping. I will probably need to drill the inner hole slightly larger since 1/2" is 12.7mm. Hopefully these fit... I couldn't locate any round aluminum stock to cut and drill on-site - 1-1/2" O.D x 1/2" I.D. Aluminum Spacers - Keyser Manufacturing - https://keysermanufacturing.com/product/1-1-2-o-d-1-2-i-d-aluminum-spacers/
• Correct torque spec for the OEM bolt for reassembly is 100 ft/lb.

I'm a little concerned that the end link won't be able to rotate when bolted to the outside of the cradle as it *looks* to me like the end link rotates on the bolt, and so the LCA cradle ensures the bolt is tight but the end link can move. Once the bolt is pressed against the end link sleeve inside the bushing I assume it won't be able to move. No idea what stress that will put on the system but if it's worked for @Willy beamin then I'm gonna give it a shot.

(I'm kinda hoping the metal sleeve in the end link bushing actually rotates within the bushing so my concern will be moot, but I won't know until I get it all apart. If anyone knows for sure, let me know).

 

[CharlieS]

Replying to myself for posterity in case someone else wants to do this

• If you remove the end link bolt the end link will stay put if the vehicle is on the ground.
• The nut is captive - it's welded into the LCA as best I can tell.
• The OEM bolt is M14-1.5 fine thread with ~3"/80mm of threads. The replacement bolt will need to be 100-120mm in length. The OEM bolt has about 1/2" of thread sticking behind the nut, possibly more, but there's definitely another inch+ of free space in there. (I happened to have a pair of M14-1.5 ~120mm bolts sitting in my box-o-random-parts... I think from when I swapped the UCAs ages ago - so I am going to try those).
• The cradle for the KDSS link is approximately 1.5" deep. The KDSS end link is approximately 2" in diameter. Presumably the hole diameter is 14mm based on the bolt size.
  • I bought a pair of these in 1.5" deep option, cost was $10 plus shipping. I will probably need to drill the inner hole slightly larger since 1/2" is 12.7mm. Hopefully these fit... I couldn't locate any round aluminum stock to cut and drill on-site - 1-1/2" O.D x 1/2" I.D. Aluminum Spacers - Keyser Manufacturing - https://keysermanufacturing.com/product/1-1-2-o-d-1-2-i-d-aluminum-spacers/
• Correct torque spec for the OEM bolt for reassembly is 100 ft/lb.

I'm a little concerned that the end link won't be able to rotate when bolted to the outside of the cradle as it *looks* to me like the end link rotates on the bolt, and so the LCA cradle ensures the bolt is tight but the end link can move. Once the bolt is pressed against the end link sleeve inside the bushing I assume it won't be able to move. No idea what stress that will put on the system but if it's worked for @Willy beamin then I'm gonna give it a shot.

(I'm kinda hoping the metal sleeve in the end link bushing actually rotates within the bushing so my concern will be moot, but I won't know until I get it all apart. If anyone knows for sure, let me know).

Make sure to torque that end link bolt properly. I lost one that way (and they are a $12 bolt via my local dealer!).

If I remember correctly, the factory replacement comes with some red thread locker already on it. Might be worth adding a bit of thread locker if you are reusing spare bolts.

Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure the sleeve is bonded into the bushing on factory links.

 

[linuxgod]

Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure the sleeve is bonded into the bushing on factory links.

View attachment 2660140

Yeah it looks that way.

Since I am replacing the LCAs anyway, I might actually try to sawzall the sh*t out of the old LCA and see if I can cut the cradle off and mount to the LCA cradle so that the end link can rotate. Definitely some concern that the end link will rotate and loosen the bolt, or *not* be able to rotate and cause odd suspension/flex/handling issues.

@Willy beamin is yours just bolted tightly to spec, or did you do something to leave enough play so the end links could still move (e.g. very low torque bolt but use red threadlocker so the bolt holds but the end link rotates)?

 

[Willy beamin]

Yeah it looks that way.

Since I am replacing the LCAs anyway, I might actually try to sawzall the sh*t out of the old LCA and see if I can cut the cradle off and mount to the LCA cradle so that the end link can rotate. Definitely some concern that the end link will rotate and loosen the bolt, or *not* be able to rotate and cause odd suspension/flex/handling issues.

@Willy beamin is yours just bolted tightly to spec, or did you do something to leave enough play so the end links could still move (e.g. very low torque bolt but use red threadlocker so the bolt holds but the end link rotates)?

Wish i had an answer for you on that. Did it at my buddies alignment shop and i don’t remember. My bad

 

[TeCKis300]

Unless I'm confused, the bonded joint should work fine even mounted outside the LCA cradle. The OEM bushing is designed to stretch, flex, and rotate with the bonded joint in place. The type of joint is commonly used by OEM for stability, dampen motions and noise, and durability. Cutting it out may create more problems than it solves.

Key thing when setting them up is to torque the bolt when the vehicle is on the ground. That maximizes bushing life as it minimizes stretching at rest. Also makes sure that it is neutral in that position so it can stretch to the extents in both droop and compression without tearing.

I wouldn't try to not bolt it to spec, as that'll create sheer forces and work harden the bolt shaft in funny ways. And it'll break things in short order, especially with as heavy as the KDSS arm is.

 

[linuxgod]

Wish i had an answer for you on that. Did it at my buddies alignment shop and i don’t remember. My bad

No problem, I appreciate all the info you've provided so far. I suspect it's fully torqued

 

[linuxgod]

Unless I'm confused, the bonded joint should work fine even mounted outside the LCA cradle. The OEM bushing is designed to stretch, flex, and rotate with the bonded joint in place. The type of joint is commonly used by OEM for stability, dampen motions and noise, and durability. Cutting it out may create more problems than it solves.

Key thing when setting them up is to torque the bolt when the vehicle is on the ground. That maximizes bushing life as it minimizes stretching at rest. Also makes sure that it is neutral in that position so it can stretch to the extents in both droop and compression without tearing.

I wouldn't try to not bolt it to spec, as that'll create sheer forces and work harden the bolt shaft in funny ways. And it'll break things in short order, especially with as heavy as the KDSS arm is.

I wouldn't cut it out. I was thinking about taking a sawzall to the old LCA and cutting off the steel cradle from that, then when I mount the end link it would still be inside a cradle, just that cradle would be sitting outside the real LCA cradle. In that way the bolt would be pressing against the cradle and not the metal sleeve inside the bushing, so the end link would still move freely... I think. (TBH, if I could weld, just fabbing something up would probably be easier, but I can't). If that doesn't make sense I can post some diagrams in a bit

 

[TeCKis300]

I wouldn't cut it out. I was thinking about taking a sawzall to the old LCA and cutting off the steel cradle from that, then when I mount the end link it would still be inside a cradle, just that cradle would be sitting outside the real LCA cradle. In that way the bolt would be pressing against the cradle and not the metal sleeve inside the bushing, so the end link would still move freely... I think. (TBH, if I could weld, just fabbing something up would probably be easier, but I can't). If that doesn't make sense I can post some diagrams in a bit

Ah, gotcha. I'm understanding now and that makes sense to cutoff and add a cradle over the existing cradle. Only thing that'll do is support the bolt in dual sheer, and make the assembly more rigid. It won't really effect the metal sleeve as both ways will likely lock down the sleeve from rotating anyways.

 

[linuxgod]

Ah, gotcha. I'm understanding now and that makes sense cutoff and add a cradle over the existing cradle. Only thing that'll do is support the bolt in dual sheer, and make the assembly more rigid. It won't really effect the metal sleeve as both ways will likely lock down the sleeve from rotating anyways.

Huh. I had assumed the normal setup allows the end link to move since the cradle was like an open box mounted to the frame. If the end link doesn’t move because the bolt is pressing the “cradle” into the sleeve then my idea is unnecessary.

I might have to break out the speed jack and lift one side to see if I can tell if it is rotating or now.

 

[CharlieS]

I hope I’m not remembering incorrectly, but I think I observed the box that these mount into flexing when the bolt is tightened, so it clamps the sleeve pretty tightly. That cage thing isn’t all that stout...

 

[Snafu13F]

Do 2015 LXs have blind spot monitors or not? I keep seeing it listed on seller ads, but can’t seem to find any mention of it in the literature from that year.

 

[radman]

Negatory.

 

[turbo8]

Are wheel bearing bodies coated from the factory or should I hit them with high temp paint before I install them?

 

[1world1love]

We are looking at trailers and one of my goals is to have matched wheel/tires on all locations to maximize redundancy and frankly to keep things simple for my scattered brain. A lot of the trailers seem to have 5x5 lugs. I have found a couple of adapters, but they are all very thick (1.5 inches).

What is the smallest adapter that could be used for this application and what are some options as far as vendors? Or, is it possible to swap out the lugs and what would that entail? These all mostly come with Timbren axle-less IS.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

We are looking at trailers and one of my goals is to have matched wheel/tires on all locations to maximize redundancy and frankly to keep things simple for my scattered brain. A lot of the trailers seem to have 5x5 lugs. I have found a couple of adapters, but they are all very thick (1.5 inches).

What is the smallest adapter that could be used for this application and what are some options as far as vendors? Or, is it possible to swap out the lugs and what would that entail? These all mostly come with Timbren axle-less IS.

For those keeping score at home, my Stupid Questions are way stupider than this.

 

[indycole]

We are looking at trailers and one of my goals is to have matched wheel/tires on all locations to maximize redundancy and frankly to keep things simple for my scattered brain. A lot of the trailers seem to have 5x5 lugs. I have found a couple of adapters, but they are all very thick (1.5 inches).

What is the smallest adapter that could be used for this application and what are some options as far as vendors? Or, is it possible to swap out the lugs and what would that entail? These all mostly come with Timbren axle-less IS.

Any reason you wouldn't just replace the hubs? I did on that on my XV-1 for $200 if I recall. Not sure if there's something about the XV-1 that made this easier than normal...

 

[TeCKis300]

Are wheel bearing bodies coated from the factory or should I hit them with high temp paint before I install them?

Hrmm, I personally haven't heard of anyone painting bearings, so I'll go out on a limb and say it's not necessary? I'd imagine if it was necessary, the OE would have provided them as such, as they have environmental requirements that have to be met.

We are looking at trailers and one of my goals is to have matched wheel/tires on all locations to maximize redundancy and frankly to keep things simple for my scattered brain. A lot of the trailers seem to have 5x5 lugs. I have found a couple of adapters, but they are all very thick (1.5 inches).

What is the smallest adapter that could be used for this application and what are some options as far as vendors? Or, is it possible to swap out the lugs and what would that entail? These all mostly come with Timbren axle-less IS.

I can't answer the adapter question. But you can also look into replacement hubs as an option, with potential to find a direct 5x150 hub if you're lucky. The axles for at least american manufactured trailers are common throughout the industry. Looks like @indycole already touched on this.

 

[tincan45]

We are looking at trailers and one of my goals is to have matched wheel/tires on all locations to maximize redundancy and frankly to keep things simple for my scattered brain. A lot of the trailers seem to have 5x5 lugs. I have found a couple of adapters, but they are all very thick (1.5 inches).

What is the smallest adapter that could be used for this application and what are some options as far as vendors? Or, is it possible to swap out the lugs and what would that entail? These all mostly come with Timbren axle-less IS.

This might be some good info from the archives...

Wheel Hub 5x150 Where to Buy?

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Dan Higgins]

I have thought about asking this question before but haven't because it is probably stupid. . So when I put larger tires on my LC (285/65R18 - which in my last LC was nearly all the time) my odometer doesn't seem to match the actual miles driven. For example, when I test this I'll drive along a road with mile markers and when I get to mile 10, my odometer says I am closer to mile 9. I don't ever do anything with the odometer. Certainly the tires create more circumference. So are they throwing my distance/odometer off? And if so, could that be effecting my MPG estimates when using larger tires?

 

[gaijin]

I have thought about asking this question before but haven't because it is probably stupid. . So when I put larger tires on my LC (285/65R18 - which in my last LC was nearly all the time) my odometer doesn't seem to match the actual miles driven. For example, when I test this I'll drive along a road with mile markers and when I get to mile 10, my odometer says I am closer to mile 9. I don't ever do anything with the odometer. Certainly the tires create more circumference. So are they throwing my distance/odometer off? And if so, could that be effecting my MPG estimates when using larger tires?

Yes, larger diameter tires will cause your odometer to read less than actual miles travelled.

Yes, MPG estimates in the display will show less than actual gas mileage.

On an interesting side note:

Japanese speedometers are calibrated to display faster than actual speeds with stock tires. So, in this case, your speedometer usually reads closer to actual speed with larger tires.

HTH