Spongey brakes and the different style Master Cylinder - Help! (1 Viewer)

[JOD80jdm]

I have a 1996 FJZ80 imported from Japan (JDM, RHD, etc, etc), it's fantastic!

I hate to start another thread on the Spongey brake issue (I've read so many), but as I follow the FSM, I have run into a dilemma.

The Brake Master Cylinder has 2 bolt holes onto the booster instead of 4, which seems to be the most common ones available in the US for the 80 series.
( for reference, I didn't just jump here, no leaks were found, replaced front calipers which were seized and uneven pad wear, and bled and bled and bled the system) So now I'm at the master Cylinder replacement)

Has anyone with the JDM 80 series ever seen the 2 bolt master cylinder? is it possible to use the 4-bolt master with an adapter?

The car has 63K miles on it, so it's surprising to see the master go bad, any possibility it's still got air after so many bleedings?

When I drive it, the pedal basically goes to the floor to brake (gradually), if you pump it once or twice it catches and you get a hard pedal, then a slow drop to the floor (5 seconds).

 

[Malleus]

You have a 27 year old truck with only 63,000 miles on it, and you're surprised the rubber has failed?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

If you're sure you can't repair/replace the JDM MC, why don't you replace both the brake booster and master? If your master has failed seals, your booster isn't far behind.

 

[JOD80jdm]

You have a 27 year old truck with only 63,000 miles on it, and you're surprised the rubber has failed?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

If you're sure you can't repair/replace the JDM MC, why don't you replace both the brake booster and master? If your master has failed seals, your booster isn't far behind.

No no! you make the point my brain keeps trying to convince myself isn’t true!

Yeah I thought about doing both at once, only factor was the wallet, but in the end I’m just pushing the problem down the hill.

Do you think it’ll be an issue to replace the JDM booster/master with the US versions?

 

[Malleus]

Shouldn't be, but I've never done it. Check with the Aussies (@mudgudgeon), their steering wheels are on the wrong side, too.

FWIW, Japan4x4 may be able to source JDM parts for you.

 

[DivByZero]

The two bolt pattern replaced the four bolt on the 80 series around 95 I think it was? On RHD models at least, no idea on those weird LHD ones you guys get stateside. My HZJ80 has the 2 bolt version. The original booster is NLA from Toyota, but there are procedures for rebuilding it in the FSM, and there are aftermarket options available. It's not JDM specific.

 

[DivByZero]

Pricey, but here's an example of a compatible aftermarket booster from a reputable brand:

Bendix Ultimate 4WD Brake Booster U4WD-BBLC80 | Sparesbox

Shop For Bendix Ultimate 4WD Brake Booster U4WD-BBLC80 at Sparesbox Australia. $9.90 flat shipping Australia wide on all orders.

www.sparesbox.com.au

There are cheaper options of less certain quality, right down to ebay generics if you want to roll the dice on that.

Don't chuck out your genuine one though. Even if you swap in an aftermarket one to get going, I'd look at rebuilding the original and keeping it.

 

[DivByZero]

Just saw you have the FZJ80, while I've posted stuff for the diesel models. You'll need to find one suited to the petrol models, but the same thing applies. There are options.

 

[JOD80jdm]

Shouldn't be, but I've never done it. Check with the Aussies (@mudgudgeon), their steering wheels are on the wrong side, too.

FWIW, Japan4x4 may be able to source JDM parts for you.

It’s always fun going to the Japanese parts sites and pretending like I know Japanese, knew I should’ve started Duolingo before I bought the 80.


Only “difference” I can see from the LHD to the RHD is the vacuum line location being flipped (and of course on the other side of the engine bay)… hopefully the international 80 owners can provide some insight.

I’d rather do a full swap than scour the web for a part whitch takes a month to eventually make it… kinda need my car to get places (and stop once I’m there)

Thanks for the insight!

 

[Malleus]

FWIW Japan4x4 speaks English.

 

[JOD80jdm]

The two bolt pattern replaced the four bolt on the 80 series around 95 I think it was? On RHD models at least, no idea on those weird LHD ones you guys get stateside. My HZJ80 has the 2 bolt version. The original booster is NLA from Toyota, but there are procedures for rebuilding it in the FSM, and there are aftermarket options available. It's not JDM specific.

Yeah it’s clear the two bolts aren’t available here in the US from the considerable searching I did from US auto parts places.

I considered a rebuild of the master cylinder, and from some of the parts diagrams for both the 4 bolt and 2 bolt versions seem to have the same OEM part numbers, not 100% convinced on that.

Would it hurt to just start there and rebuild the thing before going and importing one?

Unless it’s possible to swap the RHD booster and MC with the LHD ones more available here.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I would expect master and booster to be the same in terms of performance whether LHD or RHD.
The vehicle is essentially the same, calipers etc are the same.

I believe where they bolt to the firewall is the same.

 

[JOD80jdm]

I would expect master and booster to be the same in terms of performance whether LHD or RHD.
The vehicle is essentially the same, calipers etc are the same.

I believe where they bolt to the firewall is the same.

Much appreciated! Definitely may consider doing that to save some time, and possibly money in the long run.

Looks like some of the LHD ones have the vacuum hose “flipped” (top right, instead of top left), but that’s the only difference I’ve seen.

 

[kenavt]

I just so happen to also be researching JDM master brake cylinders for my 80-series JDM import as well (but a HDJ81), that is a 2-bolt one. I have a 1997 with ABS - if you also have ABS I think we'd probably have the same PN needed. Looking through the online parts catalogs, it looks like my part number is 47201-60610 which also matches up with the OEM part numbers from Brake master cylinder differences - Current thread? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/brake-master-cylinder-differences-current-thread.965929/.

These OEM replacements all look pretty expensive vs the 4-bolt ones that are available domestically... I think I've found the Advics/Aisin PN for 47201-60610 (BMT-235), which could cut the cost in half but still takes a while to ship. And also doesn't address the domestic parts availability issue in a pinch if that matters to you.

 

[JOD80jdm]

I just so happen to also be researching JDM master brake cylinders for my 80-series JDM import as well (but a HDJ81), that is a 2-bolt one. I have a 1997 with ABS - if you also have ABS I think we'd probably have the same PN needed. Looking through the online parts catalogs, it looks like my part number is 47201-60610 which also matches up with the OEM part numbers from Brake master cylinder differences - Current thread? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/brake-master-cylinder-differences-current-thread.965929/.

These OEM replacements all look pretty expensive vs the 4-bolt ones that are available domestically... I think I've found the Advics/Aisin PN for 47201-60610 (BMT-235), which could cut the cost in half but still takes a while to ship. And also doesn't address the domestic parts availability issue in a pinch if that matters to you.

Yep I have the same part number and everything and I think we’ve looked at the same Advics one, from roughtrax4x4. Unfortunately I’m in the position where I need it replaced sooner rather than later. May shell out more for faster shipping but willing to wait a week or so too.

 

[mudgudgeon]

'96 RHD Aussie spec, 2 bolt master cylinder, w/ ABS

Partsouq are usually around 4-5 days to my door from UAE to Aus.

They also list a TRW part for $48. No idea on quality etc

 

[JOD80jdm]

'96 RHD Aussie spec, 2 bolt master cylinder, w/ ABS

View attachment 3437778

Partsouq are usually around 4-5 days to my door from UAE to Aus.

They also list a TRW part for $48. No idea on quality etc

That’s pretty great shipping time from that far, hopefully it’s similar to the US.

Thanks!

 

[mudgudgeon]

That’s pretty great shipping time from that far, hopefully it’s similar to the US.

Thanks!

I think that's the experience most in the US have too.

Partsouq has parts diagrams, often lists alternative parts, reduced toyota tax, and ship fast.
Shipping can be a bit pricey i think, but still beats the hell out of Toyota parts departments in Australia.

 

[DivByZero]

I just realized I read this originally as you being after the brake booster, not the master cylinder, so ignore everything I said. I replaced my 2 bolt master cylinder with a new one myself a few months back, ordered through partsouq as @mudgudgeon recommended.

 

[JOD80jdm]

I just realized I read this originally as you being after the brake booster, not the master cylinder, so ignore everything I said. I replaced my 2 bolt master cylinder with a new one myself a few months back, ordered through partsouq as @mudgudgeon recommended.

Yeah I think the recommendation from others was to replace both, or convert the international booster/master with the more common US version. I ended up buying from partsourq, it was more recommended than what seemed to be the other Chinese rebuilds.

Will end up doing the booster soon, as a preventative measure once my wallet catches up with me. But for now just the master, hopefully that’ll be the end of the spongey brake saga.

Thanks for the help!