Builds Splurge Overkill - FJ60 build

[Elbert]

if you go that route...heavy is going to be an understatement...

You might want to look into how you plan on getting yourself unstuck...if you weigh twice what the next heaviest rig does...

I think your entire driveline/frame...etc better come out of a 5ton truck or so....

 

[waycrazy]

Wow these guys are tough...LOL I say its what you want, build it. Even if your ride never sees a day of trails I wanna see it done . Go for it! Take a ton of pics .

 

[TLC76]

That's what a forum is for, you throw your idea up there, however dumbassed or genius it may be, get ready for opinions, however dumbassed or genius they may be, then do what you want.

 

[isbj60]

That's what a forum is for, you throw your idea up there, however dumbassed or genius it may be, get ready for opinions, however dumbassed or genius they may be, then do what you want.

Indeed. I put this up here truly for entertainment. Yours, mine, whatever. I am sure I'll get some great ideas from this crowd, but I fully expect differing opinions. That's what makes this site great. I got some doubts, sure, but not the kind of stupid name-calling common to another forum I am a member of. Thanks for that, guys. Keep it all coming, positive or negative. I ain't sceered.

Hopefully I'll get to do some destruction tonight. I'm curious how the drivetrain held up to not being ran for the better part of a decade. Will it be salvageble? My wallet hopes so...

 

[isbj60]

Just found out some cool stuff about the ISL. Using the Powerspec software from Cummins, the user can adjust a whole host of parameters, like idle speed (to control cab noise), accelerator behavior (automotive control [pedal controls engine RPM via fuel input], or speed control [pedal sets engine speed, computer changes fueling/timing to maintain]) and even powertrain protection. You can program 4 ratio breaks and the respective power limit you want out of the engine. For example, you can tell it for rations up to 12:1, limit output to 600 ft-lb. And on up. So it isn't going to be as hard to keep the powertrain alive as everyone fears. This is a big problem on modern trucks where transmissions can provide 13:1 in low and the engines can provide 2250 ft-lb of torque. How can you design an axle to withstand 29,000 ft-lb?

The computer looks at the difference between the VSS and ESS inputs, determines the ratio, and fuels accordingly. SWEET!

It makes sense that these engines are so adjustable, since they can be put into any OEM's chassis...

 

[TallCanDan]

Subscribed. Go for it man! You done yet? When you have down time on the forum, throw a post up every four or so months, as I believe the thread will be closed after 6 months if it has no activity... Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

-Danny

 

[Elbert]

Cummins PowerSpec

the cummins power spec tool looks really nice and looks like it can control all kind of functions.

 

[Mace]

With the weight and all of the "options" you have going for you. This is going to be a nightmare to deal with..

But, enjoy
I like Different..

(BTW, I am not going to tow you anywhere out on the trail...)

 

[spotcruiser]

Like I've said before, that's one ambitious project, Kevin. Don't hesitate to call if you need a second pair of hands at some point. I have lots of free time.

Is this a different engine than the one you showed me last year?

 

[isbj60]

Progress! I had help, of course...



Wait, dad has gloves? I need them too!



And the end result of the "help"

 

[isbj60]

Like I've said before, that's one ambitious project, Kevin. Don't hesitate to call if you need a second pair of hands at some point. I have lots of free time.

Is this a different engine than the one you showed me last year?

Thanks, Todd. I will definately take you up on it. Also, check with your local club and see if they need any parts. I will be hawking off my drivetrain and master cylinders to recoup costs.

The engine is indeed different than the one I showed you. I was beginning to realize that in order to keep a mechanical fan and a good sized radiator, intercooler, and air conditioning condenser, I was going to need to stretch the front. Then our boys here at work sucked a washer into an 8.3, and I fell in love with that engine. The ISL isn't THAT much bigger than a 5.9, and by the time I got through adding up what I would need to spend to get a 5.9 to the power levels I want, I am money ahead to pick up a good used ISL. Still need to do body work, but that was already in the cards. So I will be able to get my stupid power numbers in a torque curve better suited to my gearing choice in a stock engine that will not "roll coal". Good lord that is obnoxious and only fuels the enviros to go after diesels.

 

[isbj60]

So here it sits. I need to get the other bay cleared out and the 60 shoved over there before I yank the axles. So much easier to move around in it's current state...



Envisioning this in there. (but with a low-mount turbo)

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

Just curious what power level are you trying to reach?

 

[isbj60]

Just curious what power level are you trying to reach?

Somewhere north of 1000 ft-lb at the rear wheels. And do that down low in the RPM. I'm not so interested in the HP numbers. They will be relatively low since the RPM is not high. I think the ISL is governed around 2200 RPM.

Yours looks like a hot number. What are you looking to get? Judging by your sig, 300RWHP should net you around 700 ft-lb at the wheels, right? That's healthy, and with a light(er) rig, should be quick.

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

Somewhere north of 1000 ft-lb at the rear wheels. And do that down low in the RPM. I'm not so interested in the HP numbers. They will be relatively low since the RPM is not high. I think the ISL is governed around 2200 RPM.

Yours looks like a hot number. What are you looking to get? Judging by your sig, 300RWHP should net you around 700 ft-lb at the wheels, right? That's healthy, and with a light(er) rig, should be quick.

Yup that's about what I should have. It should definitely be able to run circles around my previous setup. It won't be a drag race truck but i'm ok with that.

1000 ft-lbs out of a 12 valve cummins is really not that hard to get.
I know you have your heart set on the big Cummins, and I understand that.

But I just want to state the weight savings from using the smaller motor would greatly reduce the stress on the front end of the truck.
Plus your transmission can bolt up to the 5.9, not sure if you knew that or not.

 

[isbj60]

Yup that's about what I should have. It should definitely be able to run circles around my previous setup. It won't be a drag race truck but i'm ok with that.

1000 ft-lbs out of a 12 valve cummins is really not that hard to get.
I know you have your heart set on the big Cummins, and I understand that.

But I just want to state the weight savings from using the smaller motor would greatly reduce the stress on the front end of the truck.
Plus your transmission can bolt up to the 5.9, not sure if you knew that or not.

Those numbers can definately be done. I actually have a 5.9 24v new long block assembly with an SAE #2 flywheel housing on it right now. Honestly, you hit it right on the head. I'm head over heels for the 8.9. Also, I really suck at tuning motors, and I hate doing it.

Actually, the B series, C series, and the ISL all can use the same flywheels, too. 12mm x 1.25 on a 110mm bolt circle. 8 bolts. 130mm crankshaft diameter.

My transmission choice actually represents a greater weight increase over a standard transmission than the ISL over a 5.9. The 5.9 in full battle dress should be 1100-1200 lb. The ISL is ~1600 lb, if you don't get the 2007 EPA model year and later bloated ones. (EGR cooler, particulate filter). Now step up in size from the 8.9 and watch the weights really climb. The 14L cummins in my 5-ton weighs around 3500 lb! It is really hard to beat the power, weight, and reliablity of the C series and the ISL. Motorhome folks love them, since they pull like a 10+ liter at much less weight.

The Dana 70u center section is rated to 7500 lb. The rockwell outers should have no problems with the weight or tire size. I'd go Dana 80, but you can't get one in 3.07.

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

Those numbers can definately be done. I actually have a 5.9 24v new long block assembly with an SAE #2 flywheel housing on it right now. Honestly, you hit it right on the head. I'm head over heels for the 8.9. Also, I really suck at tuning motors, and I hate doing it.

Actually, the B series, C series, and the ISL all can use the same flywheels, too. 12mm x 1.25 on a 110mm bolt circle. 8 bolts. 130mm crankshaft diameter.

My transmission choice actually represents a greater weight increase over a standard transmission than the ISL over a 5.9. The 5.9 in full battle dress should be 1100-1200 lb. The ISL is ~1600 lb, if you don't get the 2007 EPA model year and later bloated ones. (EGR cooler, particulate filter). Now step up in size from the 8.9 and watch the weights really climb. The 14L cummins in my 5-ton weighs around 3500 lb! It is really hard to beat the power, weight, and reliablity of the C series and the ISL. Motorhome folks love them, since they pull like a 10+ liter at much less weight.

The Dana 70u center section is rated to 7500 lb. The rockwell outers should have no problems with the weight or tire size. I'd go Dana 80, but you can't get one in 3.07.

Well in that case go for it, I'll be tuned in to see the progress

 

[edizzle13]

you got me hooked on this build now. i just recently got a job at cummins doing engine emissions dyno testing so i sit and watch engines spin all day (actually what im doing right now) and your engine choice is a good one. looking forward to more progress

 

[isbj60]

you got me hooked on this build now. i just recently got a job at cummins doing engine emissions dyno testing so i sit and watch engines spin all day (actually what im doing right now) and your engine choice is a good one. looking forward to more progress

Sweet gig! I drool over the isx's. Too bad Cummins dropped the KTA out of the over-the-road lineup. I'd love to hear one of those up close and personal.

Not a whole lot of progress to report, unfortunately. I am building shelves and benches for my shop, and getting rid of some old junk to free up space and cash. I have an interested party coming this weekend, hopefully, to look at my 5.9. If that sells, I will be shopping for a rear axle! Once I have that, I can place the rear axle and start cutting and splicing the body. I have a feeling that as large as the diff is, the axle cl to yoke cl dimension isn't that much longer than a D70 or D80...

I also took some preliminary measurements on the transmission tunnel, and if I widen the top to 19" and start tapering down from there I can tuck the transmission all the way up to the body. This will keep the lift low, but the engine will poke out the hood. Looks like I will be building a hood scoop. Visibility might suffer, but it will look mean! Also, that moves all the pedals over to the left about 2" or so. (I have to offset to the left less than the right due to the countershaft positioning on the trans.) I sat in the truck a while and I think that will be ok, but I am not 100% on the idea yet...

I did a road speed vs gearing graph, but it is at work. I will try to post it up tomorrow. The transmission will keep the engine between 1300 and 1900 rpm on most shifts. That's about right for what I want. I will probably start out in 3rd, so it will drive like a 7 speed.

Now for some light reading. Very insightful. I really like air brakes.

Bendix Air Brake Handbook

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

Cool, did you pick up the motor yet?
Also how wide are your axles going to be WMS to WMS?