Spindle bearing play. (1 Viewer)

[Oldsman71442]

I did the brakes and wheel bearings on my lx470 today. My question is when I installed the hubs I got zero gap on the c-clip to hub face. I bought the kit from cruiser outfitters. Is it possible to have it too tight? When I took it apart I didn’t measure the gap on the passenger side but it seemed tight. When I took apart the drivers side it was super loose. I plan on pulling it back off in a few weeks when my Slee spindle grease tool gets back in stock and I am able to order it. I just had to change my brakes today. They were bad.. and annoying or else I woulda waited till I had the Slee tool.
On a second note I feel like the fsm has to be wrong with the torque to get the 9-15lbs of pull. I set it for about 10-11 on each side But the torque was way more than what it called for, and from all the searches I did that is normal for it to be more. I just feel like it’s impossible to get the pull with a torque that low. Has anyone successfully got the pull lbs and torque?

 

[menancyandsam]

Make your own Spindle Grease Tool.

 

[AlpineAccess]

I'm not 100% following your description so might say it back to you and see if we are talking about the same issue:

"When you removed the hub, the CV was still in the spindle. You could move the CV up and down, and side to side inside the spindle to a degree - but only on one side and not the other."

If that's accurate, have two questions to check with you on.

1. Were both spindles at the same angle with the CV in them? Full droop, steering wheel pointed straight (for example) - if they weren't, then there is a binding effect which will make one feel more snug.

2. Did you remove the CV on the loose side to inspect the bearing? Did you see or feel anything unusual? I would recommend doing this if you have concerns - matter of fact - it's easier to just pull the ball joints and yank the whole spindle off than mess with it on the car.

You can put your finger in the spindle bearing well and spin the needle bearings, and you can inspect the CV for scoring from a bad bearing. They are pretty cheap, so it would be worth having one ordered and on hand just in case it's bad so youre not stuck mid job.

The post above on making your own grease tool is a good one. They work great, I made and use one of the diy ones myself and love it.

 

[Oldsman71442]

Make your own Spindle Grease Tool.

Thanks!

 

[Oldsman71442]

I'm not 100% following your description so might say it back to you and see if we are talking about the same issue:

"When you removed the hub, the CV was still in the spindle. You could move the CV up and down, and side to side inside the spindle to a degree - but only on one side and not the other."

If that's accurate, have two questions to check with you on.

1. Were both spindles at the same angle with the CV in them? Full droop, steering wheel pointed straight (for example) - if they weren't, then there is a binding effect which will make one feel more snug.

2. Did you remove the CV on the loose side to inspect the bearing? Did you see or feel anything unusual? I would recommend doing this if you have concerns - matter of fact - it's easier to just pull the ball joints and yank the whole spindle off than mess with it on the car.

You can put your finger in the spindle bearing well and spin the needle bearings, and you can inspect the CV for scoring from a bad bearing. They are pretty cheap, so it would be worth having one ordered and on hand just in case it's bad so youre not stuck mid job.

The post above on making your own grease tool is a good one. They work great, I made and use one of the diy ones myself and love it.

What I’m referring to is how much play in and out the cv shaft has at the hub. You have to measure the gap to be no greater than .08 I believe or 2mm. Mine is right there was no gap at all. The passenger side seemed tight with no gap before disassemble and the driver side had significant gap. So I increased the c clip thickness with the kit from cruiser outfitters

 

[AlpineAccess]

One last note is that the spindle bearing plays a unique role vs other bearings. It doesn't carry much

What I’m referring to is how much play in and out the cv shaft has at the hub. You have to measure the gap to be no greater than .08 I believe or 2mm. Mine is right there was no gap at all. The passenger side seemed tight with no gap before disassemble and the driver side had significant gap. So I increased the c clip thickness with the kit from cruiser outfitters

Got it. Sounds like you were doing it right. How much outward force did you apply on the CV using the threaded hole in the end? If you have grease build up on the backside of the CV by the axle seal/dust guard it will prevent the CV from pulling flush to the rear of the spindle and give you difficulty properly gapping it.

Taking it out for a spin to move the grease around and warm things up can help a lot. Just pull the grease cap, put in your screw and pulling tool and pull the shaft out as much as possible.

Consensus is that getting the gap as close to zero as you can is the way to go. I set mine to 0 and after a few hundred miles I can get a very narrow gauge in. Has worked well for me.

 

[Oldsman71442]

One last note is that the spindle bearing plays a unique role vs other bearings. It doesn't carry much


Got it. Sounds like you were doing it right. How much outward force did you apply on the CV using the threaded hole in the end? If you have grease build up on the backside of the CV by the axle seal/dust guard it will prevent the CV from pulling flush to the rear of the spindle and give you difficulty properly gapping it.

Taking it out for a spin to move the grease around and warm things up can help a lot. Just pull the grease cap, put in your screw and pulling tool and pull the shaft out as much as possible.

Consensus is that getting the gap as close to zero as you can is the way to go. I set mine to 0 and after a few hundred miles I can get a very narrow gauge in. Has worked well for me.

Thank you! I made a makeshift puller with a clamp and a steeringwheel puller I had. Seemed to work. I just read less than .08 or 2mm but then I got to thinking maybe you want to get some kind of gap. I’ll be pulling it down to grease the spindle bearings again next weekend prolly after I make that tool.
Thanks guys!

 

[flintknapper]

Thank you! I made a makeshift puller with a clamp and a steeringwheel puller I had. Seemed to work. I just read less than .08 or 2mm but then I got to thinking maybe you want to get some kind of gap. I’ll be pulling it down to grease the spindle bearings again next weekend prolly after I make that tool.
Thanks guys!

Yes, be sure to pull the CV fully outboard with some manner of tool. I use a PS pulley 'puller/installer' for that. Then set my retaining ring to as close to zero as I can get. I want to be able to spin it by hand but not have any gap or very little.

 

[abuck99]

Thank you! I made a makeshift puller with a clamp and a steeringwheel puller I had. Seemed to work. I just read less than .08 or 2mm but then I got to thinking maybe you want to get some kind of gap. I’ll be pulling it down to grease the spindle bearings again next weekend prolly after I make that tool.
Thanks guys!

The flange snap ring gap setting is 0.20mm (0.008 in.) or less.

Regarding setting bearing preload: target is 12-15lbf for oversize tires and aftermarket wheels. FWIW I don know if FSM is a typo or not but I've never been able to get more than 1-2LBF on adjust nut using the FSM (38-57 inch-lbF) spec. I've found you can expedite getting to the desired preload spec by loosening and re-torquing the adjusting nut with each measurement- rather than just adding on torque to the tightened nut. TIP: After initial 47ftlb bearing seating step, start with 30ft lbs on adjust nut, take your measurement, and then back off- re torque and tighten incrementally as needed. Spin forward direction only, you can use up to 40-50FT-lbs on adjust nut if needed to get to target spec; but you can achieve target with less.

 

[AlpineAccess]

After installing new bearings 15k ago, it took nearly 70 ft lbs to get to the correct pretension.

I replaced a stud a month later after a tire place broke it, and setting pretension was confirmed again around 65-70 ft lbs. Hubs are staying cool even on a 14 hour drive at 75mph, checked a couple times with my IR gun.

On broken in bearings I'd expect less, and that's confirmed as well in the wheel bearing thread. Good call on putting in the work to get the gap right, it prevents a lot of expensive issues later.

Greasing the spindle bearing is a great idea too, and often goes neglected for hundreds of k's and still survives just due to the nature of being a "stabilizing" bearing for the CV and non load bearinf. The higher the speed, the more gyroscopic inertia the shaft has so as long as there is some grease in there to keep the pins rolling it should get hot.

 

[harrydunn]

New to me 100 and I'm having to go above 30 ft-lbs to get bearing pre-load even to 9 ft-lbs. It's just so subjective to bearing age, thrust washer age, fish-scale quality, etc. I've yet to ever get anything close to a "correct" 9-15 by applying the final torque value on the adjusting nut to only 4-6 ft-lbs. I've had one 80 and two 100's and they all require much more adjusting nut torque than the FSM calls for.

 

[AlpineAccess]

New to me 100 and I'm having to go above 30 ft-lbs to get bearing pre-load even to 9 ft-lbs. It's just so subjective to bearing age, thrust washer age, fish-scale quality, etc. I've yet to ever get anything close to a "correct" 9-15 by applying the final torque value on the adjusting nut to only 4-6 ft-lbs. I've had one 80 and two 100's and they all require much more adjusting nut torque than the FSM calls for.

That's pretty normal. I think I had 50 ft lbs or more on my new bearings to get the right preload. I checked them for a week over different driving conditions and the hub was never hot.

FSM is simply wrong in this one instance, which considering most engineer produced service manuals is really quite good.

 

[harrydunn]

Agree that it has to be an error. I can get maybe 2 ft-lbs of break way with their final torque spec on the adjusting nut.

That's pretty normal. I think I had 50 ft lbs or more on my new bearings to get the right preload. I checked them for a week over different driving conditions and the hub was never hot.

FSM is simply wrong in this one instance, which considering most engineer produced service manuals is really quite good.

 

[ramangain]

The following may have impacted the torque settings in the FSM vs what you need to hit pre-load spec:

1. New vs. used bearings
2. Revisions to the OEM bearings since the FSM was written
3. Using "OEM equivalent" bearings
4. Whether or not the races is completely, fully seated against the internal hub lip
5. Etc

Personally, I've used up to 60 lb-ft on the inner spindle nut when installing new hardware in the bearing kits from CruiserOutfitters on a known good spindle. This landed me around 10-12 lbs. on the fish scale to start wheel rotation.

I also think folks who get overly worried about exceeding the FSM torque spec (with known good hardware) to hit the pre-load spec may be a bit too worried about the "letter" of the torque spec, rather than the "spirit" of the torque spec.

 

[harrydunn]

I ended up using 50 ft-lbs to get 12 pounds of pull away.

 

[ramangain]

^ Perfect