Spacers for stock size wheels / tires - benefits? risks? (1 Viewer)

[Dan Lee]

I have a stock 2008 LX with stock wheels and K02 tires. I'm not doing anything close to Rubicon but do see dirt, ruts, rocks, slopes, sand and combinations of above. I learned about wheel spacers here. Well, I become aware of them but don't know much about them other than some recommendations for brands like Bora and that they seem reliable (if a good brand). I know many of you need for the larger wheels / tires. I don't really need it for that. Just wondering if there benefits even for a stock config - namely highway safety (wider track) and such.

Looking for some guidance and had some questions:
1. How much spacer would I want in order to improve highway stability?
2. For that spacer size, are there any adverse considerations to function or safety for on road or off?
3. In general, recommend to use spacer or not? If yes, size and brand?

Thanks.

 

[TeCKis300]

People use spacers for different things. Aesthetics, clearance, geometry, etc.

In my POV prioritizing function over form, aiming for an optimal balance of trades, I use them primarily to correct for suspension geometry with larger tires. Specifically scrub radius. Scrub radius geometry is keyed to overall tire diameter and its important from a handling and stability perspective to have offsets that maintain proper scrub radius. Otherwise the front tires may not be working together in a turn as the front tires point in slightly different directions, reducing cornering stability and traction. It also magnifies bump steer as the suspension cycles, along with steering pull and push on uneven ground when braking or accelerating hard. Can affect durability channeling forces into the steering rack that would otherwise be isolated in the suspension upright. These things are distinctly noticeable, but some may not perceive it. With the largest clue being lots of tire squeal when turning hard in say a parking structure (because the front tires fight each other to some extent).

That said, with larger tires, using spacers to correct for scrub radius also has some beneficial secondary effects. Including a wider track for the increased center of gravity from the tire (and/or suspension lift). Increases clearance for the potentially larger tires against things like the UCA and sway bars. There is a limit as too much offset creates its own clearance issues from added tire swing.

From what I gather, you're running stock size KO2s?

1. You'll see no benefit to adding spacers, and likely do worse than stock. A wider track may give a slight perception of better turn in, but ultimately reduce handling.
2. As with all things, adding a part may create additional considerations. So long as a spacer is installed right with the proper due diligence, there is no concern. Install right being torqueing a second time when new (just like new aluminum wheels would require), applying blue Loctite, and installing to the proper final torque.
3. It's a good tool to help with mods. Bora is great. I wish Spidertrax made 1" spacers as IMO it's more optimal for more tire fitments than 1.25".

Rough back of the napkin calcs:

Overall Tire Diameter to Optimal Offset
32.7" 50mm
33.5" 40mm
34.5" 32mm

Most factory 200-series wheels are 60mm offset.
.75" spacer = 41mm
1" spacer = 35mm
1.25" spacer = 28mm

 

[Dan Lee]

Thank you very much for the informative response. Yes, basically everything is still stock (tires are 1 step higher profile because stock profile was not available; but otherwise still 285 on 20". I'll keep with a stock configuration then - sounds like the way to go.

 

[TeCKis300]

Ah, so if you're running a 285/65R18 @ 32.5" tall, optimal offset would be about 51mm. A .75" spacer, for an effective offset of 41mm would still be close enough to get you what you might be looking for?

 

[Dan Lee]

Sorry for the confusion; I think stock was 285/50/20 but this size wasn't available for K02. So, I installed 285/55/20 on the stock wheels.

 

[RyanR]

I have a stock 2008 LX with stock wheels and K02 tires. I'm not doing anything close to Rubicon but do see dirt, ruts, rocks, slopes, sand and combinations of above. I learned about wheel spacers here. Well, I become aware of them but don't know much about them other than some recommendations for brands like Bora and that they seem reliable (if a good brand). I know many of you need for the larger wheels / tires. I don't really need it for that. Just wondering if there benefits even for a stock config - namely highway safety (wider track) and such.

Looking for some guidance and had some questions:
1. How much spacer would I want in order to improve highway stability?
2. For that spacer size, are there any adverse considerations to function or safety for on road or off?
3. In general, recommend to use spacer or not? If yes, size and brand?

Thanks.

For what its worth I ran 285/60R20 Falken Wildpeak AT3W with 1" BORA spacers on OEM Rims on my 2008 LX570 and I found it to be about perfect. Aesthetically it looked much better than stock as the wheels sat more flush with the outside of the fenders vs tucked in like they are OEM. It's a subtle but noticeable change to the stance.

 

[TeCKis300]

285/55R20 spec out to be about 32.3". Wanting about 53mm offset.

It'll be better off with stock offset, but many have run this size with mild spacers and it'll work well enough. Others have noticed and went back. Depends on your sensitivity. Probably can't hurt to try as it's not a permanent mod.

 

[Dan Lee]

Thanks guys. Interested in mostly about function and safety over cosmetics. The offset amounts are like magic numbers to me - no idea how they are calculated.

I may try it out but sounds like it's really on the fence for experts even (for my set up).....

 

[TomEf]

Thanks guys. Interested in mostly about function and safety over cosmetics. The offset amounts are like magic numbers to me - no idea how they are calculated.

I may try it out but sounds like it's really on the fence for experts even (for my set up).....

Here's the quick and dirty of offsets in layman's terms: Custom Wheels Offset - Guide to Measuring and Understanding Backspacing - https://www.elementwheels.com/custom-wheels-offset

If you aren't having any clearance issues on the inner surface of the wheels or tires and you're fine with the way it looks, you probably won't want to bother with spacers.
If you are having clearance issues on the inner surface of the wheels or tires, get spacers or new wheels.
If you don't like how sunken in your wheels and tires are and want them to sit wider, regardless of if you have clearance issues, get spacers or new wheels.

Wheels with the correct widths and offsets will always be the best option, but spacers are totally fine if you're not a moron. If you decide on spacers, buy a quality product from a reputable company (I really liked my Spidertrax spacers, but they're not the only good company). When installing, follow their directions EXACTLY. Follow their recommendations for thread locker, torque specs, etc. Check the torque occasionally. Send it.

 

[cphibs]

People use spacers for different things. Aesthetics, clearance, geometry, etc.

In my POV prioritizing function over form, aiming for an optimal balance of trades, I use them primarily to correct for suspension geometry with larger tires. Specifically scrub radius. Scrub radius geometry is keyed to overall tire diameter and its important from a handling and stability perspective to have offsets that maintain proper scrub radius. Otherwise the front tires may not be working together in a turn as the front tires point in slightly different directions, reducing cornering stability and traction. It also magnifies bump steer as the suspension cycles, along with steering pull and push on uneven ground when braking or accelerating hard. Can affect durability channeling forces into the steering rack that would otherwise be isolated in the suspension upright. These things are distinctly noticeable, but some may not perceive it. With the largest clue being lots of tire squeal when turning hard in say a parking structure (because the front tires fight each other to some extent).

That said, with larger tires, using spacers to correct for scrub radius also has some beneficial secondary effects. Including a wider track for the increased center of gravity from the tire (and/or suspension lift). Increases clearance for the potentially larger tires against things like the UCA and sway bars. There is a limit as too much offset creates its own clearance issues from added tire swing.

From what I gather, you're running stock size KO2s?

1. You'll see no benefit to adding spacers, and likely do worse than stock. A wider track may give a slight perception of better turn in, but ultimately reduce handling.
2. As with all things, adding a part may create additional considerations. So long as a spacer is installed right with the proper due diligence, there is no concern. Install right being torqueing a second time when new (just like new aluminum wheels would require), applying blue Loctite, and installing to the proper final torque.
3. It's a good tool to help with mods. Bora is great. I wish Spidertrax made 1" spacers as IMO it's more optimal for more tire fitments than 1.25".

Rough back of the napkin calcs:

Overall Tire Diameter to Optimal Offset
32.7" 50mm
33.5" 40mm
34.5" 32mm

Most factory 200-series wheels are 60mm offset.
.75" spacer = 41mm
1" spacer = 35mm
1.25" spacer = 28mm

If I understand this correctly - I do not need spacers for my 2011 lx 570 on stock wheels if I am running a 285/55/20 KO2s tire? What if I wanted to make the stance more aggressive? Would a small spacer achieve this look, while also staying compliant with the scrub radius performance? Also, @gaijin what tire pressure should I be running? Thank you!

 

[gaijin]

If I understand this correctly - I do not need spacers for my 2011 lx 570 on stock wheels if I am running a 285/55/20 KO2s tire? What if I wanted to make the stance more aggressive? Would a small spacer achieve this look, while also staying compliant with the scrub radius performance? Also, @gaijin what tire pressure should I be running? Thank you!

View attachment 2886819

If you have the LT285/55R20 117/114T Load Range D BFG All Terrain T/A KO2 tires, then the RCTIP for those on your LX570 is 43psi F/R.

HTH

 

[TeCKis300]

If I understand this correctly - I do not need spacers for my 2011 lx 570 on stock wheels if I am running a 285/55/20 KO2s tire? What if I wanted to make the stance more aggressive? Would a small spacer achieve this look, while also staying compliant with the scrub radius performance? Also, @gaijin what tire pressure should I be running? Thank you!

View attachment 2886819

285/55/20 will generally drop in without anything. If you wanted a wider stance, .75" spacers will do the trick and is a good compromise for other parameters.

I would run those tires no where near 43PSI. Plenty of feedback on the boards that it's too much pressure when unladen and will make the ride skittish. RCTIP is a first order approximation. KO2s are already known to ride stiffer than comparable tires. I'd aim for something like 38PSI and tailor from there. Sure, if you're hauling or trailering significant loads, then air up 3-5 PSI for stability and load margin.

 

[highfructose]

285/55/20 will generally drop in without anything. If you wanted a wider stance, .75" spacers will do the trick and is a good compromise for other parameters.

I would run those tires no where near 43PSI. Plenty of feedback on the boards that it's too much pressure when unladen and will make the ride skittish. RCTIP is a first order approximation. KO2s are already known to ride stiffer than comparable tires. I'd aim for something like 38PSI and tailor from there. Sure, if you're hauling or trailering significant loads, then air up 3-5 PSI for stability and load margin.

Would you run any spacers for a 275 60 r20 on a 60 offset?

Would a 10mm shim be right?

 

[TeCKis300]

Would you run any spacers for a 275 60 r20 on a 60 offset?

Would a 10mm shim be right?

275/60R20 specs to be about 32.9" diameter. Not sure 10mm spacers exists? .75" (19mm) would be the smallest and should keep scrub radius close enough to its sweet spot.

 

[cphibs]

285/55/20 will generally drop in without anything. If you wanted a wider stance, .75" spacers will do the trick and is a good compromise for other parameters.

I would run those tires no where near 43PSI. Plenty of feedback on the boards that it's too much pressure when unladen and will make the ride skittish. RCTIP is a first order approximation. KO2s are already known to ride stiffer than comparable tires. I'd aim for something like 38PSI and tailor from there. Sure, if you're hauling or trailering significant loads, then air up 3-5 PSI for stability and load margin.

What brand spacer would you recommend? Any to stay away from?

 

[TeCKis300]

I'd recommend Bora or Spidertrax. But only Bora makes them in several widths.

 

[Glock3540]

I'd recommend Bora or Spidertrax. But only Bora makes them in several widths.

I have a stock 2009 LX570. I followed your advice and installed 10mm spacers on the rear above the upper spring seats.
I do not really intend to mod it any further except for the tires. It is a street cruiser so I would like to keep the stock wheels. I have Michelin 285/50R20’s on it now. They are nearing the end of their service life. I buy my tires exclusively from Discount Tire and I also only purchase Michelin tires and am not at all interested in any other brand.
I would like to increase the stock size
+1 or +2.
Discount Tire does not offer the Michelin Defender in 295/50R20 but does offer them in 305/50R20. That is the tire I would like to purchase. I also (if possible) would like to install spacers at the same time to bring the wheels outward a bit further.
I’ve been pondering this decision for several months now as I do not want to make a $1,700 (tires only) mistake.

1.) Will the 305’s, on stock rims, rub anywhere? I’ve climbed underneath and it looks like there is quite a bit of additional room all around..
2. What width spacers would you recommend or do you recommend I stay stock without spacers? (I would like to keep the overall track with as optimum as possible for stability purposes and less strain on any suspension components but also I do like the look of tires sidewalls that are even with the sides of the vehicle)

Sorry if this has been addressed already but
I would really appreciate any help you can offer.
Thank You, Brian

 

[TeCKis300]

I have a stock 2009 LX570. I followed your advice and installed 10mm spacers on the rear above the upper spring seats.
I do not really intend to mod it any further except for the tires. It is a street cruiser so I would like to keep the stock wheels. I have Michelin 285/50R20’s on it now. They are nearing the end of their service life. I buy my tires exclusively from Discount Tire and I also only purchase Michelin tires and am not at all interested in any other brand.
I would like to increase the stock size
+1 or +2.
Discount Tire does not offer the Michelin Defender in 295/50R20 but does offer them in 305/50R20. That is the tire I would like to purchase. I also (if possible) would like to install spacers at the same time to bring the wheels outward a bit further.
I’ve been pondering this decision for several months now as I do not want to make a $1,700 (tires only) mistake.

1.) Will the 305’s, on stock rims, rub anywhere? I’ve climbed underneath and it looks like there is quite a bit of additional room all around..
2. What width spacers would you recommend or do you recommend I stay stock without spacers? (I would like to keep the overall track with as optimum as possible for stability purposes and less strain on any suspension components but also I do like the look of tires sidewalls that are even with the sides of the vehicle)

Sorry if this has been addressed already but
I would really appreciate any help you can offer.
Thank You, Brian

305/50R20 is an interesting size, in a good way. I ran a very similar 305/55R18 in overall dimensions on my 100-series and it was a great tire size with very little compromise to factory.

Looking at specs, the 305/50R20 is only 1/4" wider and 1/4" tall than the factory tires overall envelop. Can't say 100% for sure as I don't know anyone that has run that specific size, but from what I recall of the factory setup, I'm pretty sure it's doable. If you see at least 1/4" clearance everywhere against the extents of the stock tire, you're golden.

As it's a 32" overall diameter, the factory wheel offset is still pretty optimal. Any spacer will put it more outside of optimal, but then again, the impact would be negligible with something like a .75" spacer. I'm 95% sure that tire will work just dropping in. If it rubs at all, I'm 95% sure a .75" spacer could fix that. Though any rubbing at all would be minor plastics in either situation and easily remedied.

I say it's a great choice of tire if all you're looking for is a mildly increase performance all around. Especially corning and braking. With practically no impact to gearing or braking that us larger tire people accept.

 

[Glock3540]

305/50R20 is an interesting size, in a good way. I ran a very similar 305/55R18 in overall dimensions on my 100-series and it was a great tire size with very little compromise to factory.

Looking at specs, the 305/50R20 is only 1/4" wider and 1/4" tall than the factory tires overall envelop. Can't say 100% for sure as I don't know anyone that has run that specific size, but from what I recall of the factory setup, I'm pretty sure it's doable. If you see at least 1/4" clearance everywhere against the extents of the stock tire, you're golden.

As it's a 32" overall diameter, the factory wheel offset is still pretty optimal. Any spacer will put it more outside of optimal, but then again, the impact would be negligible with something like a .75" spacer. I'm 95% sure that tire will work just dropping in. If it rubs at all, I'm 95% sure a .75" spacer could fix that. Though any rubbing at all would be minor plastics in either situation and easily remedied.

I say it's a great choice of tire if all you're looking for is a mildly increase performance all around. Especially corning and braking. With practically no impact to gearing or braking that us larger tire people accept.

Perfect! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! Now if I can just talk Discount Tire into selling and mounting them for me. Their website will not even allow me to add them to my cart if I first select my exact vehicle. I’m guessing +2 is outside of their corporate allowance? The one thing I have in my corner is, on their website, a review of a customer that owns a LX570 and purchased this size for his vehicle (they were temporarily out of the stock size) and he loved them. If they give me any issues I’ll bring up they already did this for a customer so why not me as well?
Here is his review:

“Had these on my Lexus GX 460. Bought an LX570 and it came with Michelin Latitudes. They did not have the Defenders in the std size. On a whim, I checked larger sizes and they had them! These tires were meant for this vehicle since it is an AWD with multi terrain settings for mud, sand and rocks! They are taller, wider, and have an excellent tread. I can take curves comfortably at 80 mph and the SUV handles like a dream. Can't believe they did not come stock/Std on it. Highly Recommended!”

Thanks So Much For Taking Time To Answer My Specific Question!
Blessings, Brian

 

[ThirdShore]

Great thread! This has been a question on my mind lately as well. Just ordered the Geolandar G015’s to give them a go.

For a 275/70R18 (listed at 33.3”) would a .75” (19 mm) spacer be ”better” vs. no spacer?