Soft brakes (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

Then again isn't the hub attached to the UCA, LCA, and steering linkage? So if there was CV movement in and out wouldn't the caliper be moving with the disc (i.e. the entire disc/caliper/etc assembly would move)?

Yes, the hub (stub axle, brake rotor, wheels as an assembly) is tied to the spindle/upright via bearings. The brake calipers are independently bolted to the spindle/upright. So if the axle has play at the bearings, it will knockback the pads, as that is the only part that can deflect in the brake assembly.

For those curious, this is actually a thing for track cars with large brake rotors. The huge side loads cause the brake rotors to do the same thing. Larger brake rotors deflect farther with even minimal play. That's why real race cars need incredibly beefy stub axles and bearing assemblies to minimize deflection. Which is also why cheap cars use floating brake calipers so that their weak and tiny axles/bearings don't cause pad knockback.

 

[KLF]

This sounds very similar to a mini truck that I helped convert to rear discs. Had to double-pump the pedal every time he had to stop. Turned out to be a slightly bent rear axle, causing too much runout on the rotor.

Maybe pull the rear wheels, put a dial indicator on the rotor?

 

[linuxgod]

This sounds very similar to a mini truck that I helped convert to rear discs. Had to double-pump the pedal every time he had to stop. Turned out to be a slightly bent rear axle, causing too much runout on the rotor.

Maybe pull the rear wheels, put a dial indicator on the rotor?

Interesting. We didn't really monkey with the rear, save for swapping the springs and shocks. Seems more likely there'd be too much runout on the fronts since those ended up dismantled.

 

[linuxgod]

Dealer got back to me today. There's play in the front wheel bearings, causing the discs to wobble and the pads to runout. $1600 to replace them. They said it's very likely it's due to my mechanic's helper levering against the CV area to pry the suspension down.

They're trying to source parts now. Hopefully I'll get the truck by by EOD tomorrow and can still make it to Breck on Friday.

He also said there's a small amount of grease that leaked from the new CV boots, "probably due to the CV angle". Wondering if this is to be expected, if it's because the rebuilder overfilled the CVs with grease, or if my CV rebuild is also a problem.

argh

 

[mooneywa]

Jeez man. Sorry to hear this. It's unfortunately stories like this that give me great pause to modify. I took my F-150 to a local shop for replacement with Fox coilovers on the front end. They managed to damage an integrated wheel end leaving it partially in 4WD and costing $700 for the fix. Take a wild guess who was left holding the bag on that one? Dealer: "it's been damaged by someone else. No warranty." Shop: "We didn't do it! We are professionals." False. I've read shops that didn't do it correctly were also prying on things they shouldn't be prying on. Sounds familiar.

Wish I could help other than a lot of sympathy.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks @mooneywa.

I tried to get it replaced under my platinum VSA but no dice. Not surprised, really.

The original shop owner said "It's our fault, we messed up and we'll eat it, really sorry about the trouble, just give me the bill and I'll cut you a check". Totally stand-up guy who could have just as easily said "sorry to hear that" and left me holding the bag. He's a friend and I feel bad taking him up on it (despite the fact that he's offered at least a dozen times now), but we'll see what the final bill comes to.

I'd otherwise recommend him on here but I think if anyone else with a LC showed up at his shop he'd shoot me.

 

[Mogwai]

Thanks @mooneywa.

I tried to get it replaced under my platinum VSA but no dice. Not surprised, really.

The original shop owner said "It's our fault, we messed up and we'll eat it, really sorry about the trouble, just give me the bill and I'll cut you a check". Totally stand-up guy who could have just as easily said "sorry to hear that" and left me holding the bag. He's a friend and I feel bad taking him up on it (despite the fact that he's offered at least a dozen times now), but we'll see what the final bill comes to.

I'd otherwise recommend him on here but I think if anyone else with a LC showed up at his shop he'd shoot me.

Hey when you get the bill can you share all the part #s please?

 

[linuxgod]

Hey when you get the bill can you share all the part #s please?

Sure.

Props to @TeCKis300. Although the hub bolt wasn't the actual cause, it was pretty close and the symptom was the same.

 

[Mogwai]

Could someone educate me as to what the process would look like to identify "play" in the wheel bearings?

I'm asking all these questions as I was planning to do some maintenance on brakes and figure I'd check bearings/hub while I'm at it since I've now got 5k miles rolling Tundra components and curious about wear on parts. I've had the truck for 15k miles and have not touched brakes and after our last trip feeling like they could use some attention.

FWIW I had some initial CV boot grease spurt out from the outer boot when I put in used OEM Tundra take-offs that must have been rebuilt before shipment to me (does make me wonder), but no holes or issues in the boot itself just over-packed I believe. Cleaned up the area and can tell no more has come out since. Could there be an issue here?

 

[linuxgod]

Could someone educate me as to what the process would look like to identify "play" in the wheel bearings?

I'm asking all these questions as I was planning to do some maintenance on brakes and figure I'd check bearings/hub while I'm at it since I've now got 5k miles rolling Tundra components and curious about wear on parts. I've had the truck for 15k miles and have not touched brakes and after our last trip feeling like they could use some attention.

FWIW I had some initial CV boot grease spurt out from the outer boot when I put in used OEM Tundra take-offs that must have been rebuilt before shipment to me (does make me wonder), but no holes or issues in the boot itself just over-packed I believe. Cleaned up the area and can tell no more has come out since. Could there be an issue here?

I had the exact same thing with my rebuilt (re-booted, really) CVs. I'm hoping the same thing - just too much grease, and if the air wasn't burped out of the CV boot it's just "natural" expansion as they heated up a few times. Time will tell (or in this case, a 4,000 mile road trip). Really hoping for a good trip - I feel like I'm overdue for some good luck.

As to your "how to check the wheel bearings" question, I'm only familiar with "growling noise, particularly when turning" and "jack up the tire and shake the wheel" methods, but this seems to have a reasonable explanation of things to check for:

How to Spot a Bad Wheel Hub Bearing

 

[TeCKis300]

Just glad you got this sorted out! Before your big trip no less. Have a great time out there, now that your rig is sorted and ready to rock.

 

[linuxgod]

Just glad you got this sorted out! Before your big trip no less. Have a great time out there, now that your rig is sorted and ready to rock.

Fingers crossed. We're waiting on parts to be delivered in the AM. The dealer said they'll be done around 3pm if the parts arrive. Apparently there's a total of 1 of every part I need at the local warehouse. He says I'll be good so long as nobody else ordered any of the same parts this morning before he did.

Here's to hoping that all the parts I need are specific to the LC and nobody else in the area needed them. If not, I don't know WTF I'm going to do.

I did ask them to check the CV boots and see if they could re-band them if the boots aren't tight. It's been years since I've dealt with a CV boot replacement so I have no clue like @Mogwai whether it's OK that they leaked (or may continue to leak) a bit of grease early on, or if that's a warning sign that I'm gonna end up stranded. Opinions on the internet seem to vary wildly.

 

[A10Driver]

Could someone educate me as to what the process would look like to identify "play" in the wheel bearings?

I'm asking all these questions as I was planning to do some maintenance on brakes and figure I'd check bearings/hub while I'm at it since I've now got 5k miles rolling Tundra components and curious about wear on parts. I've had the truck for 15k miles and have not touched brakes and after our last trip feeling like they could use some attention.

FWIW I had some initial CV boot grease spurt out from the outer boot when I put in used OEM Tundra take-offs that must have been rebuilt before shipment to me (does make me wonder), but no holes or issues in the boot itself just over-packed I believe. Cleaned up the area and can tell no more has come out since. Could there be an issue here?

Jack wheel off of ground, grab top and bottom of wheel, push and pull. If u have play wheel bearings are bad/ not tight

 

[linuxgod]

Wife just picked up the truck. So (fingers crossed) as long as nothing else goes wrong over the next 48 hours I should be in Breckenridge Friday afternoon/evening.

The service manager at my Toyota dealer kept saying he doesn't like the angle on the CVs, particularly I think because there was some CV grease that had leaked out (and of course because he can't really tell why the wheel bearings failed). The TD lift is only ~2" in the front though, and @reevesci would need to confirm but I believe the actual travel on the TD lift is the same as stock (just set +2" to start), so if the CV angle was causing immediate wheel bearing problems (and I mean immediate) I would also expect problems on every 200 that went over a bump.

I may consider a 1" diff drop when I get back if the angles still seem steep but at the moment my only concern is the little bit of grease from the new boots. Hoping that's due to overfilling and/or some air/initial thermal expansion, or that someone with more experience than me chimes in.

 

[Mogwai]

Good luck with the trip, try not to think about it and enjoy yourselves. If it's any consolation, the grease spurt from my CV (singular, driver side only) happened soon after install, and then I hopped in the truck, did 150 miles of desert, Cruise Moab, and back... 5k miles in total since and no issues to report. However this thread has me keeping an eye on it all and wanting to tear in and see where things actually stand.

 

[linuxgod]

this thread has me keeping an eye on it all and wanting to tear in and see where things actually stand.

At some point the grease will stop spurting out. It's a question of whether it's because the right amount is in there at that point or whether it's empty.

Some folks with 100-series seem to use worm drive clamps on their boots. I'm iffy on doing so because I don't want to throw the CV axles off balance, but I may pick up a set at home Depot before I go and if I see a lot of grease when I get to Breck I may put them on to stop the hemmoraging. Not sure I can find these but they would be ideal since they have a tapered edge and would be less likely to cut into the boot

McMaster-Carr

 

[TeCKis300]

On the 100-series, people regularly saw the boots spit out some grease upon lifting and settling into the new angles. And that typically was the end of it, and would work happily ever after. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[linuxgod]

On the 100-series, people regularly saw the boots spit out some grease upon lifting and settling into the new angles. And that typically was the end of it, and would work happily ever after. I wouldn't worry about it.

@TeCKis300, for all your great advice, I owe you a six pack. You're not planning to wheel in Breckenridge this week, are you? If so, what's your poison?

 

[TeCKis300]

We're all learning together on this and I get to live vicariously through your mods. So I owe you a beer for sharing the journey. Don't have any plans for Breckenridge with my still very little ones, but I'll let you know if I'm ever out there. Cheers!

 

[linuxgod]

Alignment shop today replaced the inner CV boot clamps with new ones when doing the alignment. The originals are some sort of hammer-down type which seemed to have loosened when fastening. Right side is now crimp style. Left side is worm drive because he didn't have enough of the right size. We've put 200 miles on the truck so far today and the grease leakage has stopped. Huge props to Thalmann's alignment shop both of Chicago, the tech there was amazing and new his s***.

Also for those interested these are the specs he adjusted to. He said he set less toe because the AT tires are heavy and already stickier than factory, and set as much caster as he could on the right side, then adjusted left caster and camber from there. He said he would've liked to get a bit more caster but as the springs settle over the next few thousand miles it should adjust itself and be a little more within his target.