SOA vs SUA - pure economics and total costs (1 Viewer)

[erikgil]

I did search. But this particular question and set of variables, is of course, variable.

I'm looking into getting my rig up to at least new stock height. She's flat now. OEM springs and tired shocks. Maybe further up to accomodate some wheeling/clearance.

First route was AAL's all the way around. Looks like just under $300 to get me to stock height. Height alone and maybe a questionable ride quality. Tempting for the money in my case.

Second route was OME full kit @ $1200 or so and that would get me increased ride height over stock and a nice ride. Spendy. I'm open to hearing ways to shave costs there, recycle parts, etc.

Third is an SOA. Cut and turn I think is my bigest stumbling block there. No welder, like to research, compile, complete my own work. What does a CnT cost? And I've heard of other parts needed to be bent, replaced, etc for SOA due to the chage, or is caster the biggest issue? Open ended...

But here's a variable that may help. I might be nothing either. I have my 60 as well, might mean something or nothing.

So my question is, to those who might know, is are my 3 routes (AAL, EMO/Ironman, SOA) all in line for costs? I thought that an SOA was just fairly labor intensive, but unsure.

Anyhow, open to opinions. Cost basically is my big issue.

 

[Kurtis]

With cost as your main concern AALs are for you. I got all 4 from Man-a-fre for right around 100$ if I remember right.

If you do go SOA it should be around 1000$ to get it done safely. You have a 62 so CNT is optional defiantly without a doubt not necessary. The new brake lines a Highsteer kit you need for SOA will cost you around $400. Then you need to lengthen your drive shafts to the tune of another 2-300$. You can make your own perches but its easier to just buy the ruff stuff kit for another 2-300$ and then you'll have your U bolts spring plates etc. Then you need at least 35" tires so you don't look ridiculous. Then you need at least 4.56 gears so your 135hp engine can get you up to 60mph before it runs out of fuel. Then you need 4 new shocks and the AAL anyway to help your springs hold up.

I did the spring over axle conversion on my 60 immediately following my v8 swap and its one of the better things I've done to it. I had to have custom shafts made up anyway and my steering needed overhauled to so it was a no brainer for me.

Basically if you don't have a lot of cash you should probably stick to the 100$ aals maybe coupled with some longer shackles and a small body lift. You could be under 400$ with 3-4" of lift. If you want 2-3 and a good ride ome is for you. If you want a good ride and 5" of lift the Mojave kit is the way to go. If you want something big 6"+ with room to grow and a good ride SOA is the ticket.

 

[lovetoski]

Good comments from Kurtis. In addition:
What skills do you have? This will influence cost. SOA is cheap in terms of parts, but requires welding skills. AAL's are a simple wrenching job. Dirty, but simple.
Then there's the question of where you end up...if you do an SOA, you'll need 35" tires min. These require wider rims. Bigger tires require regearing, which requires rebuilding the axles.
What do you need? If stock height meets your needs, then do the AAL's (long, not short), and nothing else has to change. Simple, and once you do the AAL's, no more $ to spend.

 

[csd4682]

If doing AAl's get new u-bolts. Really shouldnt use the old ones, and you will probably have to cut them off anyways. Oh and you need to go ahead and get new bushings also. You will find that one of the only ways or in my case, the only way to get the shackle pins out is to use a torch and heat them until the bushings start melting. I went with aal's before doing lift springs and it cost me close to 300.00 for everything and about a day of labor since it was my first time. They certianly served their purpose but once I saw what they did for the look of my 60 I instantly wanted to go higher.

 

[fj4play]

from man-it-ant- free it cost me $800+ for aal, body lift, and greasable lift shackles, to wind up with a crappy ride and little articulation,
so decided to go with soa, purchased a harbor freight $100 welder and did my own soa costing about $500, of course i just tac welded everything and had a buddy do the hard core welding, on the cut and turn i did my own not knowing that cruiser outfitters has a exchange housing all set up for i think $125 plus shipping,you dont have to modify both d shafts just the rear, some people dont even modify the rear shaft

dont do the job twice, bite the bullet and go straight to the soa,use the $800 i wasted on sua and buy your high steer and some body armor, and convert your steering pump to Saginaw.

 

[Lugal]

One word of warning about the cost of AAL, since you're also in the northeast and your truck has probably seen a lot of road salt. Last year, when I did mine, I found that I had a broken spring in two of the packs. They were cracked right at the pin, and I couldn't see any damage until I got the packs apart to put the new AALs in. Getting replacements made at the local spring shop added about $150 to the total cost and kept my truck out of commission for an extra two days.

Overall, it was a four day PITA project that cost about $400. The truck looks good now, and could take 33" tires without any problem, but the ride, while better than before, is pretty bouncy. If I were to do it again, I'd save up for an OME or Ironman kit.

 

[darwink1]

Dont let anyone tell you you need 35's for an soa, mine looke awesome with 31's!

As a bonus youll be able to fit bigger tires down the line.

Id save up for parts and while youre doing that cruise mud and learn as much as you can about your options.

D

 

[1911]

Dont let anyone tell you you need 35's for an soa, mine looke awesome with 31's!

Off-topic: Is your 60 painted 464 or 4E9 Tan? My '86 Champagne/Bronze is badly oxidized and I'm thinking of re-spraying it Tan.

Sorry for the hi-jack erikgil.

[FONT=arial, helvetica][/FONT]

 

[gregnash]

The one thing that I see in here that you did not address was what YOU were going for with the extra lift. I am looking at the same thing for down the road when I pick up a cruiser and I will stick with a 4" lift MAX (partly because my wife is only 5' tall and will need to occassionally drive it). The thing is that I do not plan to do any serious wheeling so a smaller lift is ok for me, I could live with a 2.5" or 3". Depending on your application would determine what you should do with your ride, if you springs are pretty much done/flat then I would go with new spring packs as the AALs would seem to be just putting a band-aid on something that needs to be replaced already.

Think about what your plans are for the rig, what your eventual outcome will be and then start planning from there.

For instance, my rig will be for expedition style stuff with light to medium wheeling. It will be my daily driver, camping rig, mtn biking rig, and dog hauler. Because of all this I will not need to go with anything bigger than 33" tires, I will eventually do a H55F swap to add some overdrive for the highway, and about 5yrs down the road I will do a Toyota or Toyuzu diesel swap. With all of this in mind I will start small, clean up and sound deaden the interior, clean up the engine bay and desmog, rebuild both axles and knuckles, regear (possibly), install lockers, install front and rear ARB style bumpers, clean up suspension with new system/shocks (probably mojave or OME), then look a the H55F as the last item. After all that has been done over about a 3yr timeframe (or as money allows) I will look into the diesel swap. I am a project manager by nature so this stuff comes pretty easily to me and see what the eventual outcomes will be for this or that and how doing this will influence a need for that.

Research and planning is key, the 80/20 rule, you should spend 80% of your time planning then 20% implementing. This will save your cost in "oops" down the road if everything is done properly. Invest the time of some friends that know more than you and get their opinions and "try" to plan for those unexpected things, like 4jplay's cracked spring.
/rant

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

It also depends on what you plan on doing with the cruiser.
If you eventually want to go bigger than 35" tires go SOA.

 

[Kurtis]

from man-it-ant- free it cost me $800+ for aal, body lift, and greasable lift shackles, to wind up with a ****py ride and little articulation,

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o143/dnthall/P1000961.jpg

How did you spend 800$ on that stuff? Before I did my spring over I spent 100$ on the AAL from Man-A-Fre 160$ on all 4 extedned shackles from SOR and $120 to build an Alluminum Bl kit. I was in a hurry and it was quicker to make it than order it. You are right though the ride is not impressive.

Either way SOA is about perfect in my opinion for a 60 series. The height thing is a good point. I'm 6'1.5" and my wife is every bit of 6' and its still a stretch for us to get in. We only put about 2000 miles a year on it and it mainly sits in the garage so its not an issue for us. If I did daily drive it I would probably add Keyless entry with a fold down electric step for the cool factor. The only thing more perfect would be linking it but that is another story.

 

[darwink1]

^^ A pillar handles are key to make getting into an soa 60 tolerable. A lot better than grabbing the steering wheel every time.

The paint is... I want to say 464 but would need to check a can I got mixed to make sure. If 464 is "dune beige" then thats not it, db is more "green/gray".

D

 

[Heckraiser]

I'm looking into getting my rig up to at least new stock height.

Cost basically is my big issue.

Based on these two sentences in the OP, I'm going to say long AAL's and call it a day.

 

[dbleon]

After reading alot of threads it seems the general consensus is: do SOA only if you wheel it HARD, meaning like rock crawling... otherwise stick to OME and call it a day. SOA is a drastic modification to your vehicle (says the person who has a Vortec hehe)

 

[cruiser guy]

You can do a SOA the right way for cheaper then an OME setup all day everyday. Plus you get to run 35's, nicer ride, and tons more flex! and your springs will be on the right side of the axle

 

[lehiguy]

I did one on the cheap, cost me very little, but I own a welder which I think is a pre-requisite for the job. Honestly, the Hobart 135 that I bought ten years ago has paid for itself a hundred times over. Start counting your dollars right there.

 

[Spook50]

Dont let anyone tell you you need 35's for an soa, mine looke awesome with 31's!

Holy roller skate Batman!

 

[SNLC]

If you are going to wheel it most of the time, ie trail truck go SOA. If you have to pay somebody to do everything for you, get out your wallet, it will cost as much as putting all new supsension SUA that is, if you did the SUA bolt in yourself. If you have access to a torch or plasma cutter (even a 9" with cutting disc will do the trick) and also a welder plus a few other tools, SOA is super easy as well as fairly cheap. However, I do agree with the comments about new steering, new shocks, prop shaft work and so forth. Anything you do is opening up a can of worms, it simply comes down to how big of a can you open.

Don't let anybody tell you SOA will get you much better flex. My truck is SUA and with sway bars removed I will put it up against any SOA truck to compare flex any day. Regardless, SOA has it's advatages and if you want to run a 35"+ tire then it is the way to go unless you want to dump leaf springs all together but that would be the biggest can of worms as well as the most expensive one.

One big down side in my opinion to a SOA is how high the truck will end up. Even with the flattest springs it is a 5" lift minimum. This makes it a pita to jump up in the truck if it is used as a DD or for anything less then a trail truck. The next down side is how tall the truck will be which in turn means you really should widen the truck. If you lift it 5+" and wheel it you would be kind of foolish to not widen the truck too. So while SOA is easy if you have the right tools it still does things to the truck you really should consider before taking the plunge.

If all you use the truck for is to DD, take down some dirt roads and go camping and drive it down the highway. I suggest AAL until you can afford to do up a SUA suspension right. At the same time you might re-arch your stock springs. This won't ride all that great but should hold you over for a few years until you could either do a SOA or do a 3-4" SUA lift.

I have a 4" SUA lift. For hardcore offroading, ie rocks it is not as good as a SOA. This simply because I do not have the clearance under leaves or the option to bigger then a 35" tire. Flex wise I am close to any SOA truck I have seen. I am really happy with my 4" SUA lift for my uses. It does very well for light to medium offroading, it handles sweet on the pavement and it is not more then a little hop to get up in the truck. However, after fitting a MAF shackle reversal kit I am not the biggest fan of this kit. If I had to do it again, I would try to not use that kit, come up with my own set up and still net myself 4" of lift so I can run 35's. That or simply go SOA with flat stock leaves and stick with the 35's. My truck wold probably be the same height it is now on flat leaves, SOA and 35's, or very close anyways. And I wouldn't have the MAF shackle reversal kit.

my 2 cents

 

[1911]

The paint is... I want to say 464 but would need to check a can I got mixed to make sure. If 464 is "dune beige" then thats not it, db is more "green/gray".

464 is not dune beige; according to the CCOT web site it is "FJ60 Tan" but whatever it is I agree it is not Dune Beige. I like the tan 60's I have seen and would prefer to use a real 60 color (even though it doesn't look like tan was an option in 1986). Mine is never going to be a resto anyway. Thanks for your respnse.

 

[fj4play]

How did you spend 800$ on that stuff? Before I did my spring over I spent 100$ on the AAL from Man-A-Fre 160$ on all 4 extedned shackles from SOR and $120 to build an Alluminum Bl kit. I was in a hurry and it was quicker to make it than order it. You are right though the ride is not impressive.

Either way SOA is about perfect in my opinion for a 60 series. The height thing is a good point. I'm 6'1.5" and my wife is every bit of 6' and its still a stretch for us to get in. We only put about 2000 miles a year on it and it mainly sits in the garage so its not an issue for us. If I did daily drive it I would probably add Keyless entry with a fold down electric step for the cool factor. The only thing more perfect would be linking it but that is another story.

longer shocks and 16 new shackle bushings, greasable anti inversion shackles i think it actually was closer to $900