So I think the Michelin Defender is the perfect all-terrain tire... (For most of us) (5 Viewers)

[Sandroad]

Great timing for this thread. I have a roadtrip from Bend, OR to Denver coming in about 3 weeks. I have been running KO2s on my trucks since 2016. But I am doing little offloading anymore and what I do is rather mild. Think 90% pavement, not towing. 5% pavement and towing. 5% "mild off-road". I tow a 5700# travel trailer with ~700# of tongue weight but IIRC, the LC is rated for 8100# and I would assume that is stock. So although a higher load rating is a plus, I don't know if it is necessary. With my current setup I get 14.5 MPG combined and ~16 on highway. (No need to even discuss towing MPG!) With gas here in Oregon at $5/gal I would love to get a couple more MPG and better highway ride quality and less noise. All that said, I have a "mild" 2" lift (OME, 2721/2700 done by Slee a couple months ago).

I got a bit lost in all of the terminology and codes as I was trying to follow the thread. But a quick check on the Michelin website shows me that for my 2021 HE 18" wheels they only offer the following:
- Defender LTX M/S2 285/65R18 125S
- Defender LTX M/S 285/60R18 120H XL BSW.
- X LT A/X 285/65R18 121/118R BSW
- Latitude Tour HP 285/60R18 120V XL BSW

Now I guess I could change to 275/xx but I have always run the 285/60s or 285/65s so I am not sure of the tradeoffs of doing 275s. I did consider 275/70s at one point but didn't want to do any cutting and Discount Tire would not put them on due to the tight fit.

So, given the type of driving I am doing now will I see benefits from a switch to either of these tire choices and if so which would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. I have about 3 weeks to do that swap and it looks like Tire Rack (or in the case of the Defender LTX M/S2s Costco) have them in stock.

It's cool that your Costco has the Defender for the LC. My local Costco will not put those on a Land Cruiser because they are not listed in their computer due to lower speed rating (not V). At least at my Costco, if a tire is not listed in the computer for a vehicle, they won't put it on.

Note that the 275/65-18 P rated Defender LTX/MS is a bit wider in tread than the 285/60-18XL Defender LTX/MS. So with the 275 size you get wider tread and a taller tire. The 285 is overall wider, but more of the width is in sidewall bulge and not tread compared to the 275.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks, Everyone, great input! Lots to think about but you all have given me some great options. I must admit that I am intrigued with the idea of a 275 tire. And P rated if it is “good enough”. My Nokian snow tires are actually 285/60R18 and they seem to work fine though I don’t tow over the winter. But to be honest, my towing is pretty limited. We go out at most a half dozen times per year and never travel more than 200 miles from home. All on pavement. And all at 65MPH or less. GVWR on my trailer is 5700# and that is where it sits when I way it during a trip. As I indicted, ~750# tongue weight. So I am not close to the stated upper limits for trailer or tongue weight. Though if I went with P-rated tires I expect I would need to inflate them to more than 33PSI when towing - at least the rear tires.

 

[bloc]

Though if I went with P-rated tires I expect I would need to inflate them to more than 33PSI when towing - at least the rear tires.

Technically you wouldn’t. At the original 33psi they are at least good enough for the vehicle at its Gross Axle Weight Rating. That’s not to say some people wouldn’t want to inflate more for increased stability (depending on road feel) or mileage.. but per the load charts the tire is perfectly safe from a load handling standpoint with that low of a pressure.

 

[thammer62]

Note that the 275/65-18 P rated Defender LTX/MS is a bit wider in tread than the 285/60-18XL Defender LTX/MS. So with the 275 size you get wider tread and a taller tire. The 285 is overall wider, but more of the width is in sidewall bulge and not tread compared to the 275.

So 275/65 has more road contact tire width than 285/60? Is that on just this tire being discussed or in general due to the ratio?

 

[Mac62]

I’m no tire expect but just to throw this wrinkle in for discussion…..the older Michelin LTX M/S did have a slightly bulging sidewall which may have made the overall width wider but road contact smaller but the new Michelin Defender M/S2 is a much more squared tire, more block like so maybe someone else could chime in with actual measurements on if the 275 road contact area is still larger than the road contact area on the new defender 285. I would suspect not due to the new design.

 

[Pskhaat]

100 series owner, but new tires caught my eye. Been running wildpeaks because I tend to find myself in the NE in deep snow(10-24” road/dirt roads) in mid winter. Great snow, loud and lasted 30kish.

Have any of you rode these in deeper snow/ icy wet conditions?

Hi y'all, admittedly I'm the author of the EP post on the LTXen

I live in the CO mountains, never once thought twice about the D'LTX'MS in any snow+ice conditions whatsoever. In fact I'm adamant that they perform better in both the ice and muck than even the Michelin Crossclimate 2s, which I have on our light-adventuring Q7 TDI.

What what is worth, I have a sleeper "safari" Audi A7 TDI for having too much speed on gravel roads and the Alcan in Freburary on which I also switched over to a skinnier LTXMS. These Ps wear I think lots faster than my LTs on my 100, but still love them even doing "performance" driving.

Unfortunately, Michelin doesn't appear to make these in 275/70/r18, which is a size many 200 series owners run.

?? To which ones are you referring? I have 275/75r18s in them, did something change?

 

[Pskhaat]

Alpine driving.

 

[JohnPW]

To which ones are you referring? I have 275/75r18s in them, did something change?

The brand new Michelin Defender LTX M/S 2 (the new version just being released) is only showing a handful of sizes available at this point. I’m sure lots of other sizes will be coming, including LT275/70r18 I would imagine. You can still get the old version in a variety of sizes at this point.

 

[Pskhaat]

The brand new Michelin Defender LTX M/S 2 (the new version just being released) is only showing a handful of sizes available at this point. I’m sure lots of other sizes will be coming, including LT275/70r18 I would imagine. You can still get the old version in a variety of sizes at this point.

Gotcha. Not to be confused with the OLD "M/S2" which is older than the plain "M/S" LOL.

 

[JohnPW]

Gotcha. Not to be confused with the OLD "M/S2" which is older than the plain "M/S" LOL.

View attachment 3407353

Michelin’s name changes for this tire have been ridiculous and confusing.

 

[Pskhaat]

Michelin’s name changes for this tire have been ridiculous and confusing.

. I need a fourth job. No joke. Maybe I be their product correctness director.

 

[Julian73]

Michelin’s name changes for this tire have been ridiculous and confusing.

You're not suppose to keep tires long enough for two generations back to have any significance to purchasing decisions. Look at the Pilot Sport range for confusion.

 

[Pskhaat]

You're not suppose to keep tires long enough for two generations back to have any significance to purchasing decisions. Look at the Pilot Sport range for confusion.

And yet Michelin still has all generations for sale

 

[achillar30]

. I need a fourth job. No joke. Maybe I be their product correctness director.

I think they should already pay you royalty on ever set of Defenders sold. Your write up on Expedition Portal mentioned by the OP has probably sold hundreds or maybe thousands of sets, me included for my LX and GX. Although I did get P Metrics (275/60R20) since I wanted to stick with a 33” tire and minimal fender massaging. The closest LT size would mean I’d have to go with a 33.5”(LT275/65R20), which I might do for my next set after these dry rot around 2030. Otherwise no way am I going to put enough miles on my LX to anywhere near the treadwear warranty on a 5 tire rotation with these tires

The Defenders fit the persona of the Land Cruiser very well…understated, well-rounded, durable, etc. I feel like they were the tire designed for LCs/LXs.

I’m surprised on your thoughts about the Cross Climate 2’s, since they arguably get more rave reviews than the Defender LTXs. Any thoughts on the Defender 2s (I don’t know if it’s the Defender name that draws me or the 840 (!) UTQG rating). Michelin tires have honestly been head and shoulders above other tire brands in all my use cases in sports cars, winter tires, etc.

 

[NE Snowman]

Hi y'all, admittedly I'm the author of the EP post on the LTXen

Thanks for the read! I too carry two tire gauges, I had a bad one and inflated my wife’s bike tire too high…honestly I don’t know how high but the second I sat on it, it blew up!

 

[WBrown999]

Hi y'all, admittedly I'm the author of the EP post on the LTXen

Woah! If it isn't the man himself. Your extensive writeup and discussion about the LTX MS is the reason I put them on my GX460! Thanks for the work, and I still love them!

 

[Redbull]

Defenders rock. Did 275/70/18 on the LC. Stock 21s on the LX. They go through some tough stuff on the road, hustling 6000 lbs through the corners keeping pace with NY metro traffic and traversing the eternal construction zone that is NY metro area lol.

 

[Itsky]

I will note that my 33" 285/70/17 Defender LT load E ride supremely smooth and comfortable at 38psi -40psi. Recent highway tank was 312 miles, 17.8 gallons, so 17.5 MPG at ~75 mph. My best mpg was 18.6 MPG (337 miles 18.1 gallons). With 24.5 gallon tank that is 400+ range.

 

[Perfectmax]

For sure. Almost all the 70k miles on my LC are towing something, including a 3.5k lb camper. I’ve run Defenders exclusively.

I wanted to talk about function over form and my opinions on why I think the Michelin Defender LTX is one of the best "all-terrain" tires out these for a majority of 4wd enthusiast/Overlanders...

Before I begin let me cite a few sources on why I have these opinions.

Sources/References
- My use (I have over 10k miles on the Defenders and have wheeled them in different terrain, I will touch on below.)
- Perfect off-highway tire = LTX? What? - https://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/perfect-off-highway-tire-ltx-what.206567/ - (This is the thread that really turned me onto this)
- 400,000 Miles - https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/400-000-miles.404359/ (Another great thread on real world use)
- Watch any Deadliest roads video from this channel - https://www.youtube.com/@FreeDocumentary


The Michelin Defender LTX
View attachment 3393883

Pictured above is my 2011 LX570 and about a year ago I ditched my Falken Wildpeaks (due to them being way to heavy and generating too much road noise) and set out to find the lightest wheel and tire setup for my 200 series.

I came across the Michelin Defender LTX M/S which came in a tad under 54lbs a tire 285/70/17 (32.8 inches) (E load)

My first thought was "ew street tires" but then I remembered my friend ran these on his 2wd 3rd Gen 4Runner
He took that truck everywhere and never got stuck plus riding in the truck was a dream.

I then stumbled upon the links above and here we are today. I have logged about 10k miles on these tires and have taken them all over California in rain, snow, rocks, dirt, sand, and even some mud. They ride quiet, balance easily, wear slowly, and most importantly have tackled pretty much everything I have threw at them. From trails all over the Eastern Sierras to Anza Borrego these were slid against rocks, in deep soft sand, and driven on rain, ice, and snow. I have aired them down to as low as 12 PSI and never had an issue. When aired down they do burp occasionally. I should note I did gash the sidewall on Little John Bull in Big Bear, CA. The tire still held air though the cords were showing. I drove it back home and swapped in my spare. We do not know if I hit a steel fence post that feel or if it was a rock...

Sure they look plain and boring but the performance you get from them especially TO the trail is well worth it. I spend most of my time on the highway driving to and from work and driving to and from the destinations we all enjoy. I would assume most of us also spend lots of time on the highway which driving to the places we love to explore which is why I think these are the perfect all-terrain tires. With the amount of time we spend of the highway we should consider it a terrain as well.

These tires will get you to your destination smoothly and truly quietly and are also tough enough to hit the trails and get you back home. Now, I doubt these tires will do great in deep mud... but any tire sucks in mud, even mud-terrains. In my opinion these tires are perfect tire for what most of us use our vehicles for, Weekend trips with the occasional backcountry discovery route here and there.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying there is any place for a true all-terrain tire I am just saying choose the tire that suits what you do or plan to do.

Obviously these Defenders are not for everyone, those who rock-crawl and hit deep mud bogs often will need an aggressive tire to suit their needs, but I think for the casual Overlander you will be pleasantly surprised by these tires.

TL;DR

The Michelin Defender LTX is a fantastic all terrain tire that performs well in most situations with the exceptions of deep mud and hardcore rock crawling. This tire will get you to your destination quietly and smoothly and is tough enough to take you back home. Do not underestimate it looks.

Pros
- Excellent tread wear and tread life
- Smooth and quiet on the highway and off-road
- Light
- Extremely durable for a "street tire"

Cons
- Limited sizing, best to be had in an 18 inch as it can go up to a 34 inch size
- High cost of entry compared to other tires, even all-terrains
- Does not look cool for your cars and coffee events
View attachment 3393884
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Bottom 2 are photos from the 400,000 mile Taco thread
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Defenders or K02's - that's all I buy for my LC's.

 

[tincan45]

So this thread might be an appropriate place to talk about air down pressures. Lately I've been running 22-24 PSI "Aired Down" on my 285/70/17 LT. I think I can go lower, but I'm a little concerned about the smooth sidewalls. What do you all think?